Puzzled by the way my battery behaves

Puzzled by the way my battery behaves

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loggo

Original Poster:

440 posts

119 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
I have a Renault Captur 1.5 diesel. It is fitted with an AGM battery as it has stop/start.
My problem is that after a run when I test the battery the voltage it is around 12.8/12.9 however the following day it has dropped to 12.0. Normally I would think that the battery was on its last legs but I have recently left it parked for 12 days without using it and the battery is still on 12.0. it does not seem too degrade any further after the first few hours. I would have expected it to be down to the high tens or so and strugle to turn the engine over. Has anybody got any thoughts on this? it always bursts into life at first touch of the button.

normalbloke

7,712 posts

226 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
I’d say your problem will stop, when you stop testing it.

loggo

Original Poster:

440 posts

119 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
normalbloke said:
I’d say your problem will stop, when you stop testing it.
How little you know. My problem is that I have an intermittent fault with my heater fan which forums ascribe to low battery condition hence my interest in the battery but thank you for your comment.

GreenV8S

30,479 posts

291 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
loggo said:
I have an intermittent fault with my heater fan which forums ascribe to low battery condition hence my interest in the battery
Maybe start with that next time. The battery voltage may be a symptom of the problem, but if you've got a healthy working car and just see a meter reading you don't understand, most likely you're worrying over nothing.

12.8V is about right for a fully charged healthy lead acid battery at rest.

12.0V is about right for a battery that is roughly half discharged.

It's unusual for a battery voltage to drop that far overnight.

Perhaps you have a high current drain that stops after a few hours, such as a vac pump, cooling fan or similar.

Perhaps your battery is really unhealthy and not actually taking a full charge. It is not hard to start a healthy engine n warm weather and even a weak battery won't necessarily show any problems until you get to cold weather or an engine that is reluctant to start.

Perhaps your meter is inaccurate.

Perhaps you aren't measuring the voltage directly across the battery.

A battery that is in the high tens isn't 'struggling to turn the engine over', it is below the fully discharged voltage and probably damaged.

normalbloke

7,712 posts

226 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
loggo said:
normalbloke said:
I’d say your problem will stop, when you stop testing it.
How little you know. My problem is that I failed to give the pertinent information of the actual problem in the original post..

loggo

Original Poster:

440 posts

119 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
Thank you GreenV8S. A very comprehensive response.

The reason I focused on the battery issue is because questions like this often fly off at something of a tangent.

"12.8V is about right for a fully charged healthy lead acid battery at rest"

I am up to speed on led acid batteries but this little tinker is an agm which is something of a closed book to me.

"12.0V is about right for a battery that is roughly half discharged"

As you say however There is no obvious reason why the battery should be half charged

"It's unusual for a battery voltage to drop that far overnight"

Indeed

Perhaps you have a high current drain that stops after a few hours, such as a vac pump, cooling fan or similar.

Checked and iliminated

"Perhaps your battery is really unhealthy and not actually taking a full charge. It is not hard to start a healthy engine n warm weather and even a weak battery won't necessarily show any problems until you get to cold weather or an engine that is reluctant to start"

Very true and something I shall be keeping an eye on in the next few weeks. The only real possibility but I am perplexed by the rapid dive to 12.0 with no further drop

"Perhaps your meter is inaccurate"

I get a 12.7/12.8 reading from my other 2 cars and my boat so I think the meter is accurate

"Perhaps you aren't measuring the voltage directly across the battery"

As above I seem to be getting a an expected reading from my other tests so I guess I have the hang of reading the battery correctly

"A battery that is in the high tens isn't 'struggling to turn the engine over', it is below the fully discharged voltage and probably damaged"

Just as you say however not relevant to my question as I was merely stating what I would have expected not what the actuality is.

OldGermanHeaps

4,205 posts

185 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
Have it tested on a proper battery tester that measures cca, capacity and internal resistance. Voltage measurement only tells a small part of the battery health story.
In my experience my 2 stop start vehicles the batteries were noticably tired and needed replaced by 4 years old where i have had 6 to 10 year old batteries work just fine in non stop start vehicles.
Bit of a pain as stop start batteries are more expensive.

GreenV8S

30,479 posts

291 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
loggo said:
I am up to speed on led acid batteries but this little tinker is an agm which is something of a closed book to me.
They are chemically the same as any other lead acid automative battery and have the same charge/voltage characteristics. The glass mat construction just means the electrodes are supported and isolated better.

SlimJim16v

6,107 posts

150 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
I found this when I was looking for info on AGM vs normal batteries. The minimum OK voltage surprised me for the AGM.


GreenV8S

30,479 posts

291 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
SlimJim16v said:
I found this when I was looking for info on AGM vs normal batteries. The minimum OK voltage surprised me for the AGM.
That surprises me too. I can't refer to a technical spec, but I've seen numerous guides relating to AGM batteries giving voltages which are similar so wet lead acid batteries. Possible that data is relating to a deep discharge storage battery? They do have different voltage characteristics but aren't usually used on vehicles.

OldGermanHeaps

4,205 posts

185 months

Sunday 29th September
quotequote all
My smart charger terminates at a higher voltage for agm, which ties with that chart.

SlimJim16v

6,107 posts

150 months

Monday 30th September
quotequote all
Yes, ctek 14.3v and 14.6v

GreenV8S

30,479 posts

291 months

Monday 30th September
quotequote all
SlimJim16v said:
I found this when I was looking for info on AGM vs normal batteries. The minimum OK voltage surprised me for the AGM.
I found https://learnmetrics.com/agm-battery-voltage-chart... shows very similar voltage/charge state figures and is specifically about deep cycle batteries. Deep cycle batteries are typically used for power storage systems with low peak power requirements, and are not typically used as engine starter batteries.

Panamax

5,077 posts

41 months

Monday 30th September
quotequote all
Whichever way up you hold it 12v is a knackered battery.

Battery voltage as soon as it comes off the alternator or off a charger is not indicative. It's voltage next day that counts.

On the other high hand a high current test will work anywhere, any time.

E-bmw

9,971 posts

159 months

Tuesday 1st October
quotequote all
Panamax said:
Whichever way up you hold it 12v is a knackered battery.

Battery voltage as soon as it comes off the alternator or off a charger is not indicative. It's voltage next day that counts.

On the other high hand a high current test will work anywhere, any time.
Correct.

On the other hand a "voltage next day" second best is when the battery is fully charged, without starting the engine just turn the headlights & fan on for 30 sec, that will discount a sulphated battery showing good voltage but having no capacity if the voltage stays up.

loggo

Original Poster:

440 posts

119 months

Tuesday 1st October
quotequote all
Banner ( the battery people ) say the following about cars run in economy mode. The Renault has been in economy mode for the last 3000 miles or so - possibly this is the culprit. Renault do not say, as far as I can, tell what the effects of running in economy mode are other than reduce performance and better fuel consumption.

"Economy mode can be selected in many cars at the touch of a button. This not only activates the start-stop function, but also electronically cuts the engine’s power peak, reduces the output of power consumers such as the air-conditioning system, and also reduces the charging voltage to the battery – significantly in some cases."

Could this be the problem? Banner also say that cars in EM often charge to around 22.3v