Aircon works for a short period

Aircon works for a short period

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zedx19

Original Poster:

2,898 posts

147 months

Monday 29th July
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Peugeot 5008, 2014 1.6 HDI, aircon has worked fine up until the past 6 months, where its gradually got weaker and weaker then stopped clicking in altogether. Would had been handy if the wife had told me, but wifes will be wifes. Had a local aircon man out who pressure tested it, found no leaks then filled up, aircon was ice cold for 2 days. The aircon man did caveat his refill by saying, "It was completely empty which either means it's got a tiny leak which my equipment can't detect, or it's never been filled since it was made". As we had the car from 2 years old, we put it down to never being filled.

After 2 days, aircon cold ish but weaker, had the man back out who took some valves out, lubricated them, emptied, pressure test and refilled, ice cold again. Now though the aircon will be cold for 15 minutes ish, then be warm however the compressor will still click on/off when pressing the aircon button. Aircon man reckons the condenser is a good place to start, as its prone to stone damage due to being located in front of the radiator. Could a faulty condenser be causing the aircon to work for a short period, then stop? Or is likely to be something else?

Annoyingly we go to south of France in 2 weeks in this car with our 4 kids, absolutely need aircon working hence a desperate post on PH!

E-bmw

9,971 posts

159 months

Monday 29th July
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zedx19 said:
Peugeot 5008, 2014 1.6 HDI, aircon has worked fine up until the past 6 months, where its gradually got weaker and weaker then stopped clicking in altogether. As we had the car from 2 years old, we put it down to never being filled.
Clearly as it did work it will have had gas in from new, so not sure how you come to that conclusion.

zedx19 said:
After 2 days, aircon cold ish but weaker, had the man back out who took some valves out, lubricated them, emptied, pressure test and refilled, ice cold again. Now though the aircon will be cold for 15 minutes ish, then be warm however the compressor will still click on/off when pressing the aircon button. Aircon man reckons the condenser is a good place to start, as its prone to stone damage due to being located in front of the radiator. Could a faulty condenser be causing the aircon to work for a short period, then stop? Or is likely to be something else?
There are any number of things it could be and yes the condenser is a common one. Having said that, get somewhere to fill it with Nitrogen & then test for leaks properly before just firing the parts cannon at it in case you accidentally fix it.

MattyD803

1,842 posts

72 months

Monday 29th July
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If it was empty, it's got a leak and I suspect it's emptying itself again over time with every operation of the AC system. In fact, I wonder if switching on and running the AC leads eventually to a low pressure signal in the system somewhere once the gas / liquid is flowing through the system (and being released), hence it 'tripping' after short operation. Condensers are the 'usual' suspects.

Any sensible AC engineer who suspects a leak will have used a dye in with the refrigerant such that leaks can be subsequently discovered....? Do you know if he did it? If so, time to start investigating.

ARHarh

4,280 posts

114 months

Monday 29th July
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If he used an automatic machine to service it then it will put die in as part of the process. He the "engineer" is not finding a leak try someone else. Leaks are easy to spot most of the time.

Dynion Araf Uchaf

4,683 posts

230 months

Monday 29th July
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E-bmw said:
zedx19 said:
Peugeot 5008, 2014 1.6 HDI, aircon has worked fine up until the past 6 months, where its gradually got weaker and weaker then stopped clicking in altogether. As we had the car from 2 years old, we put it down to never being filled.
Clearly as it did work it will have had gas in from new, so not sure how you come to that conclusion.

zedx19 said:
After 2 days, aircon cold ish but weaker, had the man back out who took some valves out, lubricated them, emptied, pressure test and refilled, ice cold again. Now though the aircon will be cold for 15 minutes ish, then be warm however the compressor will still click on/off when pressing the aircon button. Aircon man reckons the condenser is a good place to start, as its prone to stone damage due to being located in front of the radiator. Could a faulty condenser be causing the aircon to work for a short period, then stop? Or is likely to be something else?
There are any number of things it could be and yes the condenser is a common one. Having said that, get somewhere to fill it with Nitrogen & then test for leaks properly before just firing the parts cannon at it in case you accidentally fix it.
suspect he means refilled.

zedx19

Original Poster:

2,898 posts

147 months

Monday 29th July
quotequote all
Yes meant refilled sorry.

Yes had dye and pressure test, holds pressure and no dye visible but the condenser is in the front bumper, in front of the rad so it's not accessible or visible without taking the under tray and the front bumper off. Sounds like condenser is a sensible item to try then, not particularly expensive either.


dingg

4,237 posts

226 months

Monday 29th July
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Get another ac guy, should be able to track down a leak like that in half an hour, most likely condenser yes, but maybe it's somewhere else....

zedx19

Original Poster:

2,898 posts

147 months

Thursday 1st August
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Just had another guy look over it, with better tools and his "Sniffer test" found a very small leak in the condenser. He has said he has something he can inject in which might seal it as its tiny, but recommended a new condenser to be sure.

Original guy quoted £340 for replacing condenser then £60 for regas, seemed ridiculous money.
New guy £200 all in for supply, fit and regas or £36 for leak sealer, I'm obviously going for new condenser.


zedx19

Original Poster:

2,898 posts

147 months

Thursday 8th August
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Turning into a nightmare this, new condenser on, regassed, no leaks detected and aircon worked fine for 2 days, now stopped working again! 1 week left before we drive to South of France in it, rapidly running out of time, going back to the new specialist to try and find the issue.

Thinking about this, the fan that cools the rad and condenser should kick in as soon as the aircon is turned on, is that right? Or at least kick in after a short while to keep the condenser cool? I don't recall hearing it kick in, meaning the condenser isn't being cooled and could explain why the aircon works for a short period, then stops.

Edited by zedx19 on Thursday 8th August 13:01

Steviesam

1,291 posts

141 months

Sunday 11th August
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I had something somewhat similar on my range Rover. Was the PCV valve on the compressor.

I had a new compressor fitted, even though the valve is available separately, as the compressor had to come off to change the valve.

zedx19

Original Poster:

2,898 posts

147 months

Monday 12th August
quotequote all
Just updating this for anyone else with similar problems, went back to new aircon guy Saturday, who said it was most likely a seal on the new condenser. Went round condenser and all engine bay pipework, sprayed everything, then looked with UV torch, then listened with device and headphones, then sniff tests for nitrogen and found nothing. Went inside the car, listening device and sniff test going off at the vents, suggesting a evaporator leak. Evaporator requires the dashboard to come out, great fun, something I did 20 years back on a 306 GTi-6 I had, took me 2 days of swearing.

As we're driving to South of France in the car this week, I've gambled with a leak sealer injection and regas which might slow the leak down enough to last long a few week, currently 41 degrees where we're going, with our 4 kids...

After the holiday I'll decide what to do, I'm not keen on 8 hours labour charge for a 100 quid part though so it'll likely be something I tackle myself.


MattyD803

1,842 posts

72 months

Monday 12th August
quotequote all
zedx19 said:
Just updating this for anyone else with similar problems, went back to new aircon guy Saturday, who said it was most likely a seal on the new condenser. Went round condenser and all engine bay pipework, sprayed everything, then looked with UV torch, then listened with device and headphones, then sniff tests for nitrogen and found nothing. Went inside the car, listening device and sniff test going off at the vents, suggesting a evaporator leak. Evaporator requires the dashboard to come out, great fun, something I did 20 years back on a 306 GTi-6 I had, took me 2 days of swearing.

As we're driving to South of France in the car this week, I've gambled with a leak sealer injection and regas which might slow the leak down enough to last long a few week, currently 41 degrees where we're going, with our 4 kids...

After the holiday I'll decide what to do, I'm not keen on 8 hours labour charge for a 100 quid part though so it'll likely be something I tackle myself.
Got a mate over in the Dordogne at the moment....it's been extremely hot and looking to remain fairly warm for the next week to 10 days. Depending on how much of your holiday is driving Vs camping or whatever, is it worth looking at getting a hire car or perhaps borrowing one from a family member....?

zedx19

Original Poster:

2,898 posts

147 months

Monday 12th August
quotequote all
MattyD803 said:
Got a mate over in the Dordogne at the moment....it's been extremely hot and looking to remain fairly warm for the next week to 10 days. Depending on how much of your holiday is driving Vs camping or whatever, is it worth looking at getting a hire car or perhaps borrowing one from a family member....?
Thanks, glad to hear the weather is lovely, did consider a hire car but also need roof bars to put the box on which isn't an option, the cost is also prohibitive as well at £1400 ish. It's a 1st world problem thing, I remember being in the back of my parents Metro squashed around luggage, with no aircon, kids don't know how lucky they are today (or not in our case now). We won't be using the car much once arriving at Eurocamp, it's just the journey to/from Saint Malo which will be the difficult bit with no aircon. This time last year it was 35 degrees on the way down but the Pugs aircon worked then, so the journey was fun for the kids, hoping that excitement will keep them going with no aircon.

Aircon was regassed and leak sealed Saturday and yesterday evening it was still ice cold, so I suppose I could buy a cheap regas kit and fill it up before setting off, knowing it'll last a few days.

MattyD803

1,842 posts

72 months

Monday 12th August
quotequote all
Yeah, might not be a bad shout. Perhaps pick up 2 kits and you could do a quick recharge before the journey home...?

Failing that, perhaps some battery powered (rechargeable) fans to take with you in the car might be an idea.

Either way, good luck and enjoy your holiday.

shirt

23,471 posts

208 months

Monday 12th August
quotequote all
zedx19 said:
After the holiday I'll decide what to do, I'm not keen on 8 hours labour charge for a 100 quid part though so it'll likely be something I tackle myself.
have fun with that!

change the expansion valve and drier as well. latter should have been done when the condenser was changed

zedx19

Original Poster:

2,898 posts

147 months

Wednesday 4th September
quotequote all
Update on this, still isn't clear cut what the problem is imo.

Just covered 1700 mile in the car, through 38 degree heat in France and the aircon will work for an hour or so, they gradually get warm. If I turn it off for 10 minutes, then back on it'll be ice cold again for an hour or so, before gradually getting warm again. Whilst this has meant I've been able to keep us all cool driving through France, it has made me think whether the evaporator is at fault, surely if it was leaking the aircon will pack up entirely!

I have not seen the fan in front of the condensor come on, whenever we've stopped in France I've left the car running and checked the fan, it has never been spinning. I'd have thought in mid to late 30s the condensor fan would be on to keep the aircon system cool? I'm no expert, but if the fan doesn't work, maybe the system is not being kept cool?

E-bmw

9,971 posts

159 months

Wednesday 4th September
quotequote all
Normally the fan will come on (on all cars I have owned) every minute or so just standing in normal temperatures.

It sounds like you need to get the fan & its electrical side checked out.

MattyD803

1,842 posts

72 months

Wednesday 4th September
quotequote all
Agreed, unusual for the AC condenser to not need fan interaction, even if its not particularly hot outside, as the process of compression is typically enough to cause the refrigerant to get hot anyway. Perhaps the AC is cutting out on a high temp / high pressure sensor etc. Well worth getting that checked - I suspect a half decent garage should be able to 'force' (test) operation via a diagnostic device? Failing that, see if you can get 12V to the connector.

Haltamer

2,554 posts

87 months

Wednesday 4th September
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If you have a diagnostic scanner that can give a read on the HVAC System, it may make things easier.

There's clearly something amiss with the refrigerant, given the empty fill / leak detection, but the intermittent operation makes me think there's something more.

It would be interesting to see what the High / Low pressures are measuring at, One classic for overfilling is the pressure cutoff activating after a short run period....

zedx19

Original Poster:

2,898 posts

147 months

Wednesday 4th September
quotequote all
Thanks for the replies, I have Peugeot Planet and leads, it didn't find anything though. I am going to try the fan relay as its 18 quid and not hard to change, Google seems to find lots of people with Peugeots and a faulty fan relay, some that throw up fault codes, some that don't. For 18 quid and considering the fan relay has never been changed, it's worth a shot.

It's also been 4 weeks since the regas, with the aircon still ice cold (for an hour) so I can't imagine there's a major leak anywhere, or any leak at all? Reluctant to start ripping the dash out if there's something else at fault. Can an overheating system cause a pressure valve to open, which might be misdiagnosed as a leak?

Edited by zedx19 on Wednesday 4th September 11:57