Vivaro battery terminals, excessive current draw - wtf?

[mondeoman]

Got a terminal problem with the battery in my Vivaro - it keeps going flat.

With everything off, doors locked and ammeter on the earth cable, its pulling 0.17A. Thats nuts.
I pulled all the fuses in the fusebox, and the fuse for the instrument panel helped, with the current draw dropping to 0.11A. (The instrument panel does go dead after about 10 mins anyway, so there is an unknown fault drawing 0.11A)

Then I pulled the cables on the battery.



1 - no change
2 - dropped from 0.17A to 0.05A
3 - no change
4 - dropped from 0.17A to 1.1A
5 - no change

So then I took off 2 & 4, dropped to 0.00A

Question is, what is connected to (2) and (4) - I cant find anything in Google to help, and I dont want to just randomly start swapping out components.

Does anyone have any ideas?

[shakindog]

Acceptable current draw on a locked car or van is 0.5-0.4 of an amp or below.
Very few modern vehicles will show 0 amp draw as the security system will be activated and draw something from battery to work.
So if it’s drawing 0.17 and is killing the battery I would say it’s probably the battery at fault

[mondeoman]

I thought acceptable current draw was closer to 50-80mA, especially on a van with only an alarm and radio...?

[LordLoveLength]

Alternator? They can fail such that they will provide some charge when running but draw current when the engine stops. Disconnect at the alternator end and measure

[shakindog]

A read of the schematic may help
Did you take all the fuses out of all the fuse boxes as usually more than one fuse box. I think one them one in dash and one under bonnet

http://knigaproavto.ru/shemy/en/vauxhall/vivaro/30...

The above link may help

[mondeoman]

I got that diagram, but it doesn't map to the fuses at all :bks:

Can't even unplug the alternator wiring, my hands are too damn big / socket stuck in place. I did disconnect the power cable, no change.

There are two cables running from the battery, not sure where either of them go.

Try again tomorrow

[Mignon]

+1 for alternator. Also check boot and glovebox lights are going out when the door's closed.

[shakindog]

A mate with girly hands to help.
The multi plugs are often a pain to disconnect you usually have to push them in a bit press the release then pull them all at the same time.
Can you not get someone to test the alternator to see if it has a short or problem with diode pack.

[Kev bach]

Does eny one know what number wire is the alternator

[Kev bach]

Kev bach said:

Does eny one know what number wire is the alternator

[NMNeil]

mondeoman said:

I got that diagram, but it doesn't map to the fuses at all :bks:

Can't even unplug the alternator wiring, my hands are too damn big / socket stuck in place. I did disconnect the power cable, no change.

There are two cables running from the battery, not sure where either of them go.

Try again tomorrow

Downloadable wiring diagram.
It's in Russian, but I'm sure you can get the info you want. 25A, F1, is a 25 amp fuse in any language
https://avtobase.com/en/1462-electrical-wiring-dia...

[SlimJim16v]

shakindog said:

Acceptable current draw on a locked car or van is 0.5-0.4 of an amp or below.

I think you've got the decimal point in the wrong place.

[shakindog]

SlimJim16v said:

shakindog said:

Acceptable current draw on a locked car or van is 0.5-0.4 of an amp or below.

I think you've got the decimal point in the wrong place.

Nope pretty sure it’s correct for amp drain but feel free to educate me.
As I am happy to learn off folk with more knowledge and better understanding.

[Penelope Stopit]

0.125 Amps is high but can be found as normal for some vehicles

0.5 Amps is massive

You did ask

[Buzz84]

Thinking about that draw and ignoring the is it, isn't excessive discussion:

Google shows a vivaro van has a 75ah battery.

Say the draw is a round 0.20A

If that draw were constant then the from fully charged to flat would take 300hrs.

You say that the draw drops to around 0.11A after a bit. That should extend the battery life to nearer 540hrs.

If your getting frequent flat batteries despite the van being driven then I would say that draw could only flatten a battery if it's not getting charged properly (alternator/charging circuit) or not holding the charge properly (battery)

Edited by Buzz84 on Saturday 31st July 12:12

[bearman68]

Vivaro battery drain should be 20 - 40 ma.
A 75 ah battery will go 'flat' after about 30 ah removed.

OP it looks like the alternator might be tits up to me. That's the best case scenario. Disconnect the big wire on the back, or alternatively disconnect it on the battery end, and just check it is the correct wire.

if it's not that, you have an electronic issue - disconnect each of the ECU's that live on the canbus in turn, and see which one changes the current draw.
There will be 20 odd units on the canbus, so we normally allow an hour or so to dis each one. However, the ones to start at are the ones experiencing faults. So, any trouble with ABS light, airbag lights, windows not working etc etc?

[Buzz84]

bearman68 said:

A 75 ah battery will go 'flat' after about 30 ah removed

Hmmm yes, very good point, in car terms a "flat" battery isn't a flat battery. It's just one without the oomph to turn the engine over and start it.

Adjusting my thinking then a 0.20A draw would take 120hrs to drop it 30ah. The 0.11A taking 215hrs

So with that draw were still looking at a week of being idle before tha battery drops to nonstarting flat.

[Penelope Stopit]

bearman68 said:

OP it looks like.....

The OP created this topic 3 years ago

This

Kev bach said:

Does eny one know what number wire is the alternator

revived the topic

[grahamprie]

I have just come across this discussion and it rings several alarm bells with me.

I am having problems with brand new Yaesu Calcium Batteries, they seem to degrade very quickly and will no longer hold a charge.

While investigating this problem, I checked the static drain current on my 2011 Vivaro Minibus and found that 0.12A was typical.

I assume that the security system and remote locking functions are the cause.

However, I have eventually found the reason for the battery failures ( I am currently on the second replacement under warranty ).

It sems that the Calcium batteries require a higher terminal voltage for proper charging than the 'standard' Lead Acid type.

Typically they need over 15V for a proper charge and are designed to withstand up to 16V for a rapid boost on vehicles which do a lot of start/stop cycles every day.

Vehicles sold since 2017 should have ECU controlled Alternators fitted, to automatically produce this sort of voltage when required.

The Alternator on my Bus never drives more than 14.4V across the battery terminals, so the battery is never fully charged.

I also only use it one day a week ( Band Van, used for practice sessions ), so the static drain flattens the battery to the point where it struggles to crank the engine. If I have a week off, I need to use my Halfords 6 Amp automatic battery charger for 48 hours in maintenance mode, to bring it up enough to use.

Using the battery in a partially charged state causes it to deteriorate, hence my replacement sequence, every 9 months or so.

My only recourse will be to go back to a standard battery, soon.

Hope this helps someone.

[Richard-D]

If your Vivaro is drawing .12 amps after everything has gone to sleep you either have a fault or something aftermarket has been fitted that is poorly designed. Your battery can't cause a current draw.