Aftermarket Parts vs OEM parts
Discussion
Recently I bought a aftermarket standard exhaust back box for a little Suzuki, nothing stupid just a "standard" item. Once the exhaust was installed it fitted terribly. This isn't the first time I have found aftermarket parts rubbish, I bought a water pump for a vehicle, opened the box to find the vanes on the impeller covered in burrs. I cannot remember the brands of these parts but are there any good aftermarket parts out there?
Of course there is always the option of OEM parts but these cost the earth and on a older car really dont seem worth it.
What is the solution?
Of course there is always the option of OEM parts but these cost the earth and on a older car really dont seem worth it.
What is the solution?
Low Pro said:
Recently I bought a aftermarket standard exhaust back box for a little Suzuki, nothing stupid just a "standard" item. Once the exhaust was installed it fitted terribly. This isn't the first time I have found aftermarket parts rubbish, I bought a water pump for a vehicle, opened the box to find the vanes on the impeller covered in burrs. I cannot remember the brands of these parts but are there any good aftermarket parts out there?
Of course there is always the option of OEM parts but these cost the earth and on a older car really dont seem worth it.
What is the solution?
Off-brand parts are a bit of a mixed bag.Of course there is always the option of OEM parts but these cost the earth and on a older car really dont seem worth it.
What is the solution?
Also, not to teach granny to suck eggs, but OEM and OE aren't the same thing, although they are usually much more comparable.
OE= comes in a suzuki box, official part.
OEM= made by the manufacturer of OE bits, but not an official Suzuki part. Sometimes a better part, sometimes worse, but usually pretty comparable with OE if not just the same thing minus the suzuki part number label.
Sadly not all parts are made equally. It really depends on what item you are talking about as well.
Even if you identify the actual manufacturer of the part for the OE there can be differences in the end product. Other times all that happens in the car manufacturers name is removed in some way. You then have the other manufacturers who then produce copies...which is a whole different world.
It is really difficult to accurately say for everything then go here or there. Obviously if you are happy with the original part and you manage to find who manufactures it and the two are the same then go ahead more so if it is consumable items. But for something like a windscreen for example which I am sure Paul at Glasstec will pipe up and say the only thing to do is buy the OEM windscreen (more so if you have head up display or cameras that utilise the incoming data from said camera (so rain sensors, headlights, automatic braking etc.)
Even if you identify the actual manufacturer of the part for the OE there can be differences in the end product. Other times all that happens in the car manufacturers name is removed in some way. You then have the other manufacturers who then produce copies...which is a whole different world.
It is really difficult to accurately say for everything then go here or there. Obviously if you are happy with the original part and you manage to find who manufactures it and the two are the same then go ahead more so if it is consumable items. But for something like a windscreen for example which I am sure Paul at Glasstec will pipe up and say the only thing to do is buy the OEM windscreen (more so if you have head up display or cameras that utilise the incoming data from said camera (so rain sensors, headlights, automatic braking etc.)
Krikkit said:
The solution is just to be picky really... People like FirstLine, Starline, TRW all sell cheap rubbish (for the most part).
TRW are a massive OE manufacturer, they make good quality parts.Low Pro said:
R
Of course there is always the option of OEM parts but these cost the earth and on a older car really dont seem worth it.
What is the solution?
Original parts are very worthwhile if the available aftermarket parts don't fit or fall apart after five minutes. Best thing is to do some research for the car in question. If it's a reasonably popular model then chance are someone else made the mistake of buying a crap part.Of course there is always the option of OEM parts but these cost the earth and on a older car really dont seem worth it.
What is the solution?
Edited by Mr2Mike on Thursday 9th November 15:56
CraigyMc said:
Off-brand parts are a bit of a mixed bag.
Also, not to teach granny to suck eggs, but OEM and OE aren't the same thing, although they are usually much more comparable.
OE= comes in a suzuki box, official part.
OEM= made by the manufacturer of OE bits, but not an official Suzuki part. Sometimes a better part, sometimes worse, but usually pretty comparable with OE if not just the same thing minus the suzuki part number label.
Something I've always wondered is does OEM mean "made by an OE manufacturer of that particular part for Suzuki, but not an official Suzuki part", or does it just mean "made by an OE manufacturer of some part of some Suzuki".Also, not to teach granny to suck eggs, but OEM and OE aren't the same thing, although they are usually much more comparable.
OE= comes in a suzuki box, official part.
OEM= made by the manufacturer of OE bits, but not an official Suzuki part. Sometimes a better part, sometimes worse, but usually pretty comparable with OE if not just the same thing minus the suzuki part number label.
If a company, say, makes a thermostatic fan switch for VW, could they claim that all of their water pumps, cambelts and suspension parts are OEM VW parts?
If they can, then it's all a huge mixed bag as you say. So many companies these days sell out their brands and introduce parallel value lines by putting their name on cheap rubbish as well as making decent more expensive lines themselves (I'm thinking TV manufacturers, etc.), that I guess any rebranded cheap rubbish could be legally and accurately described as an OEM part.
Parts come in all kinds of quality and standards but generally fall into four groups:
Original parts - identical to what the car was built with, supplied by the OEM
OEM parts - Once the car goes out of production the manufacturer may change suppliers for some parts, for example brake pads, so although they were originally made by Bosch they may now buy pads built to the same spec by Brembo. This is effectively the same as the original parts, and you'll almost never be able to tell the difference
OE quality aftermarket parts - These are made by other suppliers but certified to be the same quality as the original ones
Non OE quality aftermarket parts - Usually cheap, often suspiciously so. These should fit in roughly the same way as the originals but are generally much lower quality. If you're getting a back box for £20 or a set of brake pads for £7 then this is what you're buying. Never ever buy anything electrical or sensor related from this category, and don't buy cheap catalytic converters either unless the car is about to be sold.
To the specific point about exhausts, they often need some minor bending to get them to fit right, and it's very easy to damage them in transit but the really cheap ones are total garbage and a lot of garages refuse to buy them.
Original parts - identical to what the car was built with, supplied by the OEM
OEM parts - Once the car goes out of production the manufacturer may change suppliers for some parts, for example brake pads, so although they were originally made by Bosch they may now buy pads built to the same spec by Brembo. This is effectively the same as the original parts, and you'll almost never be able to tell the difference
OE quality aftermarket parts - These are made by other suppliers but certified to be the same quality as the original ones
Non OE quality aftermarket parts - Usually cheap, often suspiciously so. These should fit in roughly the same way as the originals but are generally much lower quality. If you're getting a back box for £20 or a set of brake pads for £7 then this is what you're buying. Never ever buy anything electrical or sensor related from this category, and don't buy cheap catalytic converters either unless the car is about to be sold.
To the specific point about exhausts, they often need some minor bending to get them to fit right, and it's very easy to damage them in transit but the really cheap ones are total garbage and a lot of garages refuse to buy them.
Technically speaking when you mention TRW you are really referring to ZF TRW....which is just an endless list of brands, covering multiple areas.
I know from experience looking over my 640D there is a LOT of ZF, Bosch, ATE...
One thing I do tend to find though is when looking at Jap cars you to tend to find a lot of Made in Japan from other Jap manufacturers.
I know from experience looking over my 640D there is a LOT of ZF, Bosch, ATE...
One thing I do tend to find though is when looking at Jap cars you to tend to find a lot of Made in Japan from other Jap manufacturers.
In the Alfa world:
OE lower suspension arm - comes in Alfa box, costs £150. Says TRW on the casting.
OEM lower suspension arm - comes in a TRW bag, costs £80. Says TRW on the casting, same part as the OE
“OE Quality” or some other verbiage - e.g. Birth part, costs £70. Doesn’t say anything on the casting, works OK.
Unbranded Ebay - costs £70 for all 4. Literally breaks as you lower the car to the ground.
The trick to cheap motoring is finding out the OEM manufacturer, and working out which of the others are acceptable quality.
OE lower suspension arm - comes in Alfa box, costs £150. Says TRW on the casting.
OEM lower suspension arm - comes in a TRW bag, costs £80. Says TRW on the casting, same part as the OE
“OE Quality” or some other verbiage - e.g. Birth part, costs £70. Doesn’t say anything on the casting, works OK.
Unbranded Ebay - costs £70 for all 4. Literally breaks as you lower the car to the ground.
The trick to cheap motoring is finding out the OEM manufacturer, and working out which of the others are acceptable quality.
jamiebae said:
Original parts - identical to what the car was built with, supplied by the OEM
OEM parts - Once the car goes out of production the manufacturer may change suppliers for some parts
Slight build on this in that even when the car is in production, you can source "original" parts direct from the component supplier. OEM parts - Once the car goes out of production the manufacturer may change suppliers for some parts
You buy a brand new BMW for example. You can buy a replacement headlight in a "BMW Original Parts" box from the BMW dealer, inside which you will find say a Bosch headlight. You can also buy from a number of sources, a Bosch headlight in a Bosch box, which is IDENTICAL to the one in the BMW box, and will for the purpose of your warranty, count as an "original part" so long as it is definitely like for like.
At my local Audi Centre I have seen the Euro Car Parts van dropping off "original" parts with the reputable manufacturers brand on the box (eg "Bosch" rather than "Audi" branded).
EDIT: Exactly what RXE said above
I look at it like this: OEM parts are of a known, reasonably consistent quality; non-OEM ones will vary - some will be better than OEM, some will be worse. So for me the choices are either to buy OEM; or do some research and buy good after-market. Which I go for depends on how important and expensive the part is and how much free time I have.
Dapster said:
jamiebae said:
Original parts - identical to what the car was built with, supplied by the OEM
OEM parts - Once the car goes out of production the manufacturer may change suppliers for some parts
Slight build on this in that even when the car is in production, you can source "original" parts direct from the component supplier. OEM parts - Once the car goes out of production the manufacturer may change suppliers for some parts
You buy a brand new BMW for example. You can buy a replacement headlight in a "BMW Original Parts" box from the BMW dealer, inside which you will find say a Bosch headlight. You can also buy from a number of sources, a Bosch headlight in a Bosch box, which is IDENTICAL to the one in the BMW box, and will for the purpose of your warranty, count as an "original part" so long as it is definitely like for like.
At my local Audi Centre I have seen the Euro Car Parts van dropping off "original" parts with the reputable manufacturers brand on the box (eg "Bosch" rather than "Audi" branded).
If I'm buying aftermarket consumable parts (e.g. brakes, joints, clutch) then I always look to buy a brand I recognise and know.
If I'm looking for a significant replacement part (e.g. a caliper, subframe, steering rack, even a radiator), I will tend to prefer to buy a used original part from a breakers than a cheap reproduction item for a brand I'm not familiar with. This is when the genuine part is prohibitively expensive in relation to the vehicle's value (or cash in my pocket :-) ) ....... I'd prefer to have a genuine BMW caliper off of a car from a breakers than a refurbed item from god knows where, with seals made of liquorish, and maybe given little more than a squirt of silver paint.
If I'm looking for a significant replacement part (e.g. a caliper, subframe, steering rack, even a radiator), I will tend to prefer to buy a used original part from a breakers than a cheap reproduction item for a brand I'm not familiar with. This is when the genuine part is prohibitively expensive in relation to the vehicle's value (or cash in my pocket :-) ) ....... I'd prefer to have a genuine BMW caliper off of a car from a breakers than a refurbed item from god knows where, with seals made of liquorish, and maybe given little more than a squirt of silver paint.
mat205125 said:
If I'm buying aftermarket consumable parts (e.g. brakes, joints, clutch) then I always look to buy a brand I recognise and know.
If I'm looking for a significant replacement part (e.g. a caliper, subframe, steering rack, even a radiator), I will tend to prefer to buy a used original part from a breakers than a cheap reproduction item for a brand I'm not familiar with. This is when the genuine part is prohibitively expensive in relation to the vehicle's value (or cash in my pocket :-) ) ....... I'd prefer to have a genuine BMW caliper off of a car from a breakers than a refurbed item from god knows where, with seals made of liquorish, and maybe given little more than a squirt of silver paint.
Actually, refurb bits are normally decent as they're done fairly locally (a lot of it by big companies in Eastern Europe - the costs of shipping tons of old core to China makes it prohibitive. At least a refurb item uses original castings so you know it'll fit properly and not be massively out of tolerance from the factory.If I'm looking for a significant replacement part (e.g. a caliper, subframe, steering rack, even a radiator), I will tend to prefer to buy a used original part from a breakers than a cheap reproduction item for a brand I'm not familiar with. This is when the genuine part is prohibitively expensive in relation to the vehicle's value (or cash in my pocket :-) ) ....... I'd prefer to have a genuine BMW caliper off of a car from a breakers than a refurbed item from god knows where, with seals made of liquorish, and maybe given little more than a squirt of silver paint.
The stuff to avoid is the cheap brand new stuff - brakes and alternators being the main ones, as the quality is usually awful
Mr2Mike said:
Krikkit said:
The solution is just to be picky really... People like FirstLine, Starline, TRW all sell cheap rubbish (for the most part).
TRW are a massive OE manufacturer, they make good quality parts.
te (ball joints that last 1500 miles, suspension arms that don't fit). I keep wondering if it's a bit like Pagid with ECP - they make a mix of cheap rubbish and good stuff.Krikkit said:
In my experience there are two streams - the good TRW stuff is very good, but there are some cheap bits which are utter ste (ball joints that last 1500 miles, suspension arms that don't fit). I keep wondering if it's a bit like Pagid with ECP - they make a mix of cheap rubbish and good stuff.
And this comes back around to my question. If TRW supply decent lower wishbones to say BMW for one particular model, can cheap rubbish TRW wishbones (possibly made in a different factory) also be labelled as BMW OEM? And how about cheap rubbish TRW ball joints (probably made in a completely different factory and different country) - could they be labelled as OEM for BMW even if TRW had never supplied a single ball joint to BMW, given that the company is a manufacture or OE parts?te (ball joints that last 1500 miles, suspension arms that don't fit). I keep wondering if it's a bit like Pagid with ECP - they make a mix of cheap rubbish and good stuff.AJB said:
If TRW supply decent lower wishbones to say BMW for one particular model, can cheap rubbish TRW wishbones (possibly made in a different factory) also be labelled as BMW OEM?
TRW (or whoever) will never label anything "BMW OEM". They can't - because the BMW brand is not their property. They'd get hit with a ton of legal bricks if they did. If it's got BMW branding anywhere near it, it'll be a genuine part in a BMW box - even if it's a TRW-manufactured part.Some retailer may say "OE supplier", but that'll be covered in so many caveats as to be worthless - and may not actually be accurate anyway.
For Land Rover parts, the part number is usually informally suffixed with a G if it's a genuine part, or from the OEM supplier. There's a wide range of qualities available there - from genuine down to the blue bag of death.
jamiebae said:
mat205125 said:
If I'm buying aftermarket consumable parts (e.g. brakes, joints, clutch) then I always look to buy a brand I recognise and know.
If I'm looking for a significant replacement part (e.g. a caliper, subframe, steering rack, even a radiator), I will tend to prefer to buy a used original part from a breakers than a cheap reproduction item for a brand I'm not familiar with. This is when the genuine part is prohibitively expensive in relation to the vehicle's value (or cash in my pocket :-) ) ....... I'd prefer to have a genuine BMW caliper off of a car from a breakers than a refurbed item from god knows where, with seals made of liquorish, and maybe given little more than a squirt of silver paint.
Actually, refurb bits are normally decent as they're done fairly locally (a lot of it by big companies in Eastern Europe - the costs of shipping tons of old core to China makes it prohibitive. At least a refurb item uses original castings so you know it'll fit properly and not be massively out of tolerance from the factory.If I'm looking for a significant replacement part (e.g. a caliper, subframe, steering rack, even a radiator), I will tend to prefer to buy a used original part from a breakers than a cheap reproduction item for a brand I'm not familiar with. This is when the genuine part is prohibitively expensive in relation to the vehicle's value (or cash in my pocket :-) ) ....... I'd prefer to have a genuine BMW caliper off of a car from a breakers than a refurbed item from god knows where, with seals made of liquorish, and maybe given little more than a squirt of silver paint.
The stuff to avoid is the cheap brand new stuff - brakes and alternators being the main ones, as the quality is usually awful
Little 'uns car needed a new altenator, and I chanced a £30 ebay one from a breakers rather than consider a cheap fakey.
TooMany2cvs said:
TRW (or whoever) will never label anything "BMW OEM". They can't - because the BMW brand is not their property. They'd get hit with a ton of legal bricks if they did. If it's got BMW branding anywhere near it, it'll be a genuine part in a BMW box - even if it's a TRW-manufactured part.
This.I bought boxed-and-branded ZF top and bottom suspension mounts and a BEHR thermostat for my old 330i. ZF and BEHR are line fit manufacturers. The parts that came off were 100% identical to the ones that replaced them save for the fact that the new ones had been buffed where BMW logos appeared on the old ones.
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