The universe as a sentient being
Discussion
Let's say we look as science as the way to validate what we see and interact with us.
What happens if these results were actually just an illusion, created to the rules we set out to find.
Yes it all sounds wacky do, but we see the world with ex monkeys eyes and a lot of things seem to fit too well. What it these laws are all an illusion of rules that didn't actually exist?
Hence the universe being in total control deciding what rules it wants us to see and Ives it doesn't?
What happens if these results were actually just an illusion, created to the rules we set out to find.
Yes it all sounds wacky do, but we see the world with ex monkeys eyes and a lot of things seem to fit too well. What it these laws are all an illusion of rules that didn't actually exist?
Hence the universe being in total control deciding what rules it wants us to see and Ives it doesn't?
Lawro said:
Does that stuff you're smoking come in a vape? Asking for a friend.
You know the greatest minds have asked the same question? ""Dr. Greg Matloff, is a leading expert in possibilities for interstellar propulsion , especially near-Sun solar-sail trajectories that might ultimately enable interstellar travel. and is a tenured astronomy professor with the physics department of New York City College of Technology, CUNY, a consultant with NASA Marshall Space Flight Center, a Hayden Associate of the American Museum of Natural History and a Corresponding Member of the International Academy of Astronautics"
""The veteran physicist at New York City College of Technology recently published a paper arguing that humans may be like the rest of the universe in substance and in spirit.
A “proto-consciousness field” could extend through all of space, he argues. Stars may be thinking entities that deliberately control their paths. Put more bluntly, the entire cosmos may be self-aware.""
https://jcer.com/index.php/jcj/article/view/579
https://www.thespaceshow.com/guest/dr.-greg-matlof...
https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/universe-cons...
What's your astro qualifications?
Lawro said:
I don't need them as he's not using his qualifications either.
He's a physicist who's wandered out of his field and into almost some kind of quasi-religious/philosophical domain.
You quote him saying “A proto-consciousness field” could extend through all of space. Stars may be thinking entities that deliberately control their paths. Put more bluntly, the entire cosmos may be self-aware.""
Yes, put even more bluntly, he's barking and has zero evidence for his conjecture.
I've Seen some posts on here but that takes the biscuit lol ego much lolHe's a physicist who's wandered out of his field and into almost some kind of quasi-religious/philosophical domain.
You quote him saying “A proto-consciousness field” could extend through all of space. Stars may be thinking entities that deliberately control their paths. Put more bluntly, the entire cosmos may be self-aware.""
Yes, put even more bluntly, he's barking and has zero evidence for his conjecture.
Maybe better to dumb it down a bit.
For a long time it was thought consciousness worked only in humans. Well they have found it other animals. The mechanics of consciousness works in the state that is quantum. We are finding evidence that this state is fully connected and communicate at levels we can't currently comprehend.
An example is the mechanism of higher state energy in cells, where biophotons are produced . It was only very recently that they have identified this as a way for cells to communicate through matter and instantaneously.
So maybe people need to read up in emerging science before making very ignorant comments?
For a long time it was thought consciousness worked only in humans. Well they have found it other animals. The mechanics of consciousness works in the state that is quantum. We are finding evidence that this state is fully connected and communicate at levels we can't currently comprehend.
An example is the mechanism of higher state energy in cells, where biophotons are produced . It was only very recently that they have identified this as a way for cells to communicate through matter and instantaneously.
So maybe people need to read up in emerging science before making very ignorant comments?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-cons...
""Sir Roger Penrose, who was among the first academics to propose we go beyond neuroscience when looking at consciousness.
He says we should strongly consider the role of quantum mechanics and in his book published in 1989 "The Emperor's New Mind: Concerning Computers, Minds, and the Laws of Physics" he argued that human consciousness is non-algorithmic and a product of quantum effects.""
https://www.space.com/is-the-universe-conscious
I guess for some people it is hard to imagine that the people in the past night have got it correct about the universe. Yes all theories but gravity is still a theory as well .
""Sir Roger Penrose, who was among the first academics to propose we go beyond neuroscience when looking at consciousness.
He says we should strongly consider the role of quantum mechanics and in his book published in 1989 "The Emperor's New Mind: Concerning Computers, Minds, and the Laws of Physics" he argued that human consciousness is non-algorithmic and a product of quantum effects.""
https://www.space.com/is-the-universe-conscious
I guess for some people it is hard to imagine that the people in the past night have got it correct about the universe. Yes all theories but gravity is still a theory as well .
Edited by mickythefish on Tuesday 18th June 06:47
Seems odd to compare to flat earth but obviously you don't like the view, theory etc. I get that people are closed minded nowadays makes them feel content. But sometimes people think differently to the normal people and they will always get a hard time, that is behaviours rooted in our past.
Life evolved from inorganic materials not sure if you knew that theory/viewpoint? Non living matter created living matter hmmm.
Life evolved from inorganic materials not sure if you knew that theory/viewpoint? Non living matter created living matter hmmm.
Panamax said:
This is to my mind a fascinating aspect if, as I suspect, it has to be correct. Otherwise one ends up drifting back into the world of the supernatural with a "creator" and all that kind of stuff.
Someone mentioned ants and in fact I nearly mentioned them in my earlier post. It seems to me that a "nest" of ants, bees or whatever has a sentience that arises somehow from collective existence as opposed to individual existence. If one pushes that concept a bit further it's not difficult to believe that human morality can exist without the need for any supernatural or religious connection.
All fascinating stuff IMO. Free your mind and the rest will follow, as En Vogue fans will recall. Mind you, they were probably soul sisters and soul is a word that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms. It seems to me that possibly consciousness = soul.
There is evidence collectives of living things can control the environment. Someone mentioned ants and in fact I nearly mentioned them in my earlier post. It seems to me that a "nest" of ants, bees or whatever has a sentience that arises somehow from collective existence as opposed to individual existence. If one pushes that concept a bit further it's not difficult to believe that human morality can exist without the need for any supernatural or religious connection.
All fascinating stuff IMO. Free your mind and the rest will follow, as En Vogue fans will recall. Mind you, they were probably soul sisters and soul is a word that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms. It seems to me that possibly consciousness = soul.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/08/how-trees-i...
A concidence that trees have a process that directly brings in more rain?
Trees communicate a lot to each other. If you break down everything in this universe communication seems to be everywhere. I think we need to start looking around us not until space for answers to our existence, probably right under our noses.
Edited by mickythefish on Tuesday 18th June 14:40
https://docquity.com/articles/universe-and-human-b...
Harmonizing the Cosmos and Consciousness: Profound Parallels Between the Universe and Human Brain
Harmonizing the Cosmos and Consciousness: Profound Parallels Between the Universe and Human Brain
How does life cone from nothing? How does a consciousness cone from nothing unless all animals have some form of it .
You look at the past forget religion and the people in more touch with nature. Where they all wrong?
"Synchronicity is what happens when seemingly unrelated events coincide in improbable ways that have some sort of significance for you. Jung believed synchronicities were evidence of a unifying consciousness at play in the universe, creating physical manifestations of what's happening in our psyche."
An example I've had summited Ben Nevis , heavy winds couldn't see a thing. Sat down literally 3 minutes later all cleared sun came out. At the same time a song by Keane came on that fitted the mood exactly.
Also I was going to meet someone off the internet for a walk. Drove there ,suddenly snow storms,they couldn't make it. Realised later they were a psychopath. Was that just a concidence or the universe working in ways to guide her on a path?
Yes it all becomes very unscientific and understand why people don't like it, but I think maybe science doesn't have all the answers. I do believe that our ability to see the universe is a key to something else and we should look inwards to find the answers .
You look at the past forget religion and the people in more touch with nature. Where they all wrong?
"Synchronicity is what happens when seemingly unrelated events coincide in improbable ways that have some sort of significance for you. Jung believed synchronicities were evidence of a unifying consciousness at play in the universe, creating physical manifestations of what's happening in our psyche."
An example I've had summited Ben Nevis , heavy winds couldn't see a thing. Sat down literally 3 minutes later all cleared sun came out. At the same time a song by Keane came on that fitted the mood exactly.
Also I was going to meet someone off the internet for a walk. Drove there ,suddenly snow storms,they couldn't make it. Realised later they were a psychopath. Was that just a concidence or the universe working in ways to guide her on a path?
Yes it all becomes very unscientific and understand why people don't like it, but I think maybe science doesn't have all the answers. I do believe that our ability to see the universe is a key to something else and we should look inwards to find the answers .
Great thread really enjoy reading posts surprised it is still going as must think I'm nuts, but I do think there is a blurred line where science meets philosophy.
I mean the big bang had the combined big forces that broke up, maybe there are ones we have missed. Also life came from nothing but maybe nothing always had life?This is where I think we are constrained by how we think as evolved monkeys.
And just to be clear I do not believe in a god , because then that becomes good and bad which are meaningless in a universe. Death is a cycle of life.
I mean the big bang had the combined big forces that broke up, maybe there are ones we have missed. Also life came from nothing but maybe nothing always had life?This is where I think we are constrained by how we think as evolved monkeys.
And just to be clear I do not believe in a god , because then that becomes good and bad which are meaningless in a universe. Death is a cycle of life.
Edited by mickythefish on Thursday 20th June 07:01
TheBinarySheep said:
I think I read something the other day that said up until now, they thought that consciousness was in the brain, but they now believe that every cell in your body could have some sort of consciousness.
A lot of this stuff is actually very old. But progress sometimes shund the past cbutba lot of very intelligent people are actually reassessing it.It clearly works in the quantum state, and I don't buy nothing can travel faster than light I think there is a Mechanism we know nothing about. A layer of space which contains everything as well as being able to track everything.
I think the rules we see are a phantom, a ruse of deeper rules.
Again why look for the answers in space I think they are all around us. 95% if the universe we can never travel to ever. But travel with our mind , could be everywhere and wouldn't break any rules I know off.
juliussneezer said:
I can't believe the science forum houses threads about UFO conspiracies and 'Sentient' Universes.
Isn't there a humour forum for this kinda thing?
Are you saying you know better than these scientific publications? This is what i find odd really, loads of theory's science can't answer.Isn't there a humour forum for this kinda thing?
Can our brains help prove the universe is conscious?
https://www.space.com/is-the-universe-conscious
You also have articles by respected publications like.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-cons...
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24632800-90...
https://bigthink.com/13-8/panpsychism-universe-pur...
Ken_Code said:
They aren’t journals, they are magazines, and ones with a terrible recent history of publishing rubbish to try to improve revenues.
New Scientist is to science what The Daily Mail is to journalism.
4New Scientist is to science what The Daily Mail is to journalism.
again odd.
''These sources consist of legitimate science or are evidence based through the use of credible scientific sourcing. Legitimate science follows the scientific method, is unbiased and does not use emotional words. These sources also respect the consensus of experts in the given scientific field and strive to publish peer-reviewed science. Some sources in this category may have a slight political bias, but adhere to scientific principles''
v Dailymail
''A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing of credible information, a complete lack of transparency, and/or is fake news.''
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-mail/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/new-scientist/
Ken_Code said:
It’s not odd. You seem determined to think you know better than people who’ve actually been scientists and will jump to anything at all that you can find on the internet that agrees with your imbecilic ideas.
Is it fair to assume that you never really “got” science at school?
No just highlighting stupid comments that make no sense. New scientist is written by "specialists in the field and expert journalists" but in your eyes it is the daily mail, that is moronic, because you don't like what is being written.Is it fair to assume that you never really “got” science at school?
I was well educated thank you.
Panamax said:
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
Meanwhile, back in reality, the fundamental questions remain the same.
Explain have rocks created life?Meanwhile, back in reality, the fundamental questions remain the same.
Life evolved from nothing. Yet people are now deciding what are good science theories and bad based on their own ideology.
We just don't enough about the universe not to say that if life can come from nothing than obviously there are things we cannot fully comprehend.
juliussneezer said:
Yes but the universe can't be sentient loljuliussneezer said:
mickythefish said:
juliussneezer said:
Yes but the universe can't be sentient lolThere is a lot of evidence it is possible. But like gravity, still a theory.
"even systems that we don't consider animate could have a little bit of consciousness,” Koch says. “It is part and parcel of the physical.” From this perspective, the universe may not exactly be thinking, but it still has an internal experience intimately tied to our own."
Explain to me how rocks make life? Rocks no life make life? Yet saying the universe might be sentient, no a god etc but just aware is a crazy idea lol catz.
''Since Galileo’s time the physical sciences have leaped forward, explaining the workings of the tiniest quarks to the largest galaxy clusters. But explaining things that reside “only in consciousness”—the red of a sunset, say, or the bitter taste of a lemon—has proven far more difficult. Neuroscientists have identified a number of neural correlates of consciousness—brain states associated with specific mental states—but have not explained how matter forms minds in the first place.''
Edited by mickythefish on Sunday 23 June 08:15
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