Interstellar travel
Discussion
I came across this Royal Institute lecture the other day on interstellar travel
https://youtu.be/R3Igzfte8Pc?si=8wiDtcTI8FUoNOFr
It only deals with the propulsion problems as the person giving the lecture works for NASA on solar sails.
What was interesting to me is having set out the (almost overwhelming) size of the engineering (and temporal) problems involved in getting to next nearest star (after the Sun), he was still optimistic it would happen.
The distances involved are hard to grasp. For most of us the fastest we have traveled is around 1000 kmh in a passenger jet. However at that speed it would take 4.5 million years to reach Alpha Centuri.
This will never happen. The US spent a fortune and ten years to get to the moon. Just getting a probe to Alpha Centuri would be orders of magnitude more difficult and more expensive and even in the best case it would be centuries or millennia to know if it had worked. Politicians struggle to think long term when long term is more than the next election cycle. Who would pitch something like: we are going to spend 10% of global GDP on a project that will take decades or centuries, has no pay back beyond intellectual curiosity and you and everyone you know will be dead when or if it works. Good luck with that.
https://youtu.be/R3Igzfte8Pc?si=8wiDtcTI8FUoNOFr
It only deals with the propulsion problems as the person giving the lecture works for NASA on solar sails.
What was interesting to me is having set out the (almost overwhelming) size of the engineering (and temporal) problems involved in getting to next nearest star (after the Sun), he was still optimistic it would happen.
The distances involved are hard to grasp. For most of us the fastest we have traveled is around 1000 kmh in a passenger jet. However at that speed it would take 4.5 million years to reach Alpha Centuri.
This will never happen. The US spent a fortune and ten years to get to the moon. Just getting a probe to Alpha Centuri would be orders of magnitude more difficult and more expensive and even in the best case it would be centuries or millennia to know if it had worked. Politicians struggle to think long term when long term is more than the next election cycle. Who would pitch something like: we are going to spend 10% of global GDP on a project that will take decades or centuries, has no pay back beyond intellectual curiosity and you and everyone you know will be dead when or if it works. Good luck with that.
Will watch that later. Solar sails would be good for cost, but would make the JWST look like a cocktail umbrella & would still need civilization to be around for a century plus.
How much delta-V could starship give a probe?
Solar sail & private nuclear power station/space laser it is then.
How much delta-V could starship give a probe?
- Edit short calculation says at Parker Solar speeds of 163KM/s.
Solar sail & private nuclear power station/space laser it is then.
Even if we could travel at light speed, Alpha Centauri is still nearly 4.5 years away. The only way we could keep humans alive for that long would be to have them comatose and fed intravenously and when they got to the other end their muscles and bones would have wasted away to the point where they would never be able to survive in the gravity of any sort of planet. At more realistic speeds, it would take centuries to get there. Human interstellar space travel is never going to happen until we figure out replicators, artificial gravity, particle deflectors, shields and warp drive. Basically we need most of the fictional tech in Star Trek to be able to go anywhere outside our solar system.
The only way around this is by finding a way to download our consciousness into a robotic body which can survive for decades with few resources.
The only way around this is by finding a way to download our consciousness into a robotic body which can survive for decades with few resources.
LunarOne said:
Even if we could travel at light speed, Alpha Centauri is still nearly 4.5 years away. The only way we could keep humans alive for that long would be to have them comatose and fed intravenously and when they got to the other end their muscles and bones would have wasted away to the point where they would never be able to survive in the gravity of any sort of planet. At more realistic speeds, it would take centuries to get there. Human interstellar space travel is never going to happen until we figure out replicators, artificial gravity, particle deflectors, shields and warp drive. Basically we need most of the fictional tech in Star Trek to be able to go anywhere outside our solar system.
The only way around this is by finding a way to download our consciousness into a robotic body which can survive for decades with few resources.
If you could get close to light speed then it wouldn’t take 4.5 years for the occupants of the ship owing to time dilation. Unfortunately getting close to light speed not realistic.The only way around this is by finding a way to download our consciousness into a robotic body which can survive for decades with few resources.
ChocolateFrog said:
We can't even get the potholes fixed on our streets although I do like the thought experiments.
But if we fixed all the potholes there wouldn't be enough money left for interstellar travel.I think the answer is not to think of it as a mission to another planet, but as a self-supporting colony in its own right. People will be born on it and die on it. They will know no other world - just as we know no other world. They will probably know they're on a journey to somewhere - but which of the hundreds of generations will be the one to arrive? And what will they do when they get there?
Warp drive, that's what you need.
Skeptisk said:
I came across this Royal Institute lecture the other day on interstellar travel
https://youtu.be/R3Igzfte8Pc?si=8wiDtcTI8FUoNOFr
It only deals with the propulsion problems as the person giving the lecture works for NASA on solar sails.
What was interesting to me is having set out the (almost overwhelming) size of the engineering (and temporal) problems involved in getting to next nearest star (after the Sun), he was still optimistic it would happen.
The distances involved are hard to grasp. For most of us the fastest we have traveled is around 1000 kmh in a passenger jet. However at that speed it would take 4.5 million years to reach Alpha Centuri.
This will never happen. The US spent a fortune and ten years to get to the moon. Just getting a probe to Alpha Centuri would be orders of magnitude more difficult and more expensive and even in the best case it would be centuries or millennia to know if it had worked. Politicians struggle to think long term when long term is more than the next election cycle. Who would pitch something like: we are going to spend 10% of global GDP on a project that will take decades or centuries, has no pay back beyond intellectual curiosity and you and everyone you know will be dead when or if it works. Good luck with that.
A chap spent 350 ish days in space recently and when he returned he looked absolutely fhttps://youtu.be/R3Igzfte8Pc?si=8wiDtcTI8FUoNOFr
It only deals with the propulsion problems as the person giving the lecture works for NASA on solar sails.
What was interesting to me is having set out the (almost overwhelming) size of the engineering (and temporal) problems involved in getting to next nearest star (after the Sun), he was still optimistic it would happen.
The distances involved are hard to grasp. For most of us the fastest we have traveled is around 1000 kmh in a passenger jet. However at that speed it would take 4.5 million years to reach Alpha Centuri.
This will never happen. The US spent a fortune and ten years to get to the moon. Just getting a probe to Alpha Centuri would be orders of magnitude more difficult and more expensive and even in the best case it would be centuries or millennia to know if it had worked. Politicians struggle to think long term when long term is more than the next election cycle. Who would pitch something like: we are going to spend 10% of global GDP on a project that will take decades or centuries, has no pay back beyond intellectual curiosity and you and everyone you know will be dead when or if it works. Good luck with that.
ked. Therein lies your problem.TX.
We will never ‘set sail’ for the stars. The distances and time are too great. Whenever someone comes up with a new solution, the problem is no one will set off on this monstrous journey because they will always believe that a faster way will be invented long before the journey has even got a tiny percentage of the way there.
If the current fastest way is forecast to take 7000 years, would you go? Or wait until someone invents a way that takes half that?
We should concentrate on appreciating what we already have, not dream of travelling to some remote rock that we don’t even know will be suitable.
If the current fastest way is forecast to take 7000 years, would you go? Or wait until someone invents a way that takes half that?
We should concentrate on appreciating what we already have, not dream of travelling to some remote rock that we don’t even know will be suitable.
glazbagun said:
I think some kind of genetic arkship of embryos/ genes all controlled by an ai is our only feasible shot.
But knowing humanity they would either worship the ai or destroy it after a generation or ten.
Can you imagine condemning your descendents to a life stuck in a prison barge with almost nothing to do except stare out at the endless blackness? They'll never feel wet grass or sand between their toes. They'll never know what it's like to pin the throttle on a superbike or a flat-six through a tunnel and they'll never lie at the foot of a tree and look up and see the shafts of sunlight streaming through the branches. And they'll never go skiing, scuba diving or parachuting. They'll be denied nearly all the pleasures of being human.But knowing humanity they would either worship the ai or destroy it after a generation or ten.
On the upside, they'll never tread on an upturned UK plug in the dark when getting up in the middle of the night to go for a pee.
TTmonkey said:
We will never ‘set sail’ for the stars. The distances and time are too great. Whenever someone comes up with a new solution, the problem is no one will set off on this monstrous journey because they will always believe that a faster way will be invented long before the journey has even got a tiny percentage of the way there.
If the current fastest way is forecast to take 7000 years, would you go? Or wait until someone invents a way that takes half that?
We should concentrate on appreciating what we already have, not dream of travelling to some remote rock that we don’t even know will be suitable.
On the plus side. time would move slower for you. You might be lucky & not look a day over 6000 years when you arrive. If the current fastest way is forecast to take 7000 years, would you go? Or wait until someone invents a way that takes half that?
We should concentrate on appreciating what we already have, not dream of travelling to some remote rock that we don’t even know will be suitable.
Will still watch the video, I love this stuff.
I don't think it will ever happen with any sort of propulsion we can conceive of currently for the reasons others have stated. The distances are simply too great at even a meaningful fraction of light speed for a human lifetime.
It's going to take a literal quantum leap into warp drives or worm holes, or something equally far out of our current, even theoretical, capabilities.
It's going to take a literal quantum leap into warp drives or worm holes, or something equally far out of our current, even theoretical, capabilities.
thegreenhell said:
I don't think it will ever happen with any sort of propulsion we can conceive of currently for the reasons others have stated. The distances are simply too great at even a meaningful fraction of light speed for a human lifetime.
It's going to take a literal quantum leap into warp drives or worm holes, or something equally far out of our current, even theoretical, capabilities.
I watched another RI video last night on the topic of black holes, worm holes and warp drives. Unfortunately conclusion was that the latter two are more fantasy than science - fun to look into but not something observed to exist and reliant on “exotic” materials ie ones with negative energy (which have never been observed and not consistent with our current understanding of the universe). It's going to take a literal quantum leap into warp drives or worm holes, or something equally far out of our current, even theoretical, capabilities.
I think what is a bit depressing but needs to be kept in mind is that despite our knowledge of science and technological abilities having advanced massively since the 1960s, our space faring abilities haven’t really moved on and even with today’s technology it wouldn’t be much easier to put people back on the moon.
The fastest human-made object to date travelled at around 157,000mph, which is 0.0002c, so at that speed a journey of 4.2 ly would take 21,000 years.
For context, 21,000 years back in human history, was the first use of pottery, and about the same time this was drawn:
We were literally living in caves. Imagine how much human technology could advance in the next 21,000 years while our little spacecraft makes it's theoretical journey to our nearest neighbour. We would almost certainly catch it up and pass it. We might not even recognise it as being of our own creation.
You're gonna need abigger faster boat.
For context, 21,000 years back in human history, was the first use of pottery, and about the same time this was drawn:
We were literally living in caves. Imagine how much human technology could advance in the next 21,000 years while our little spacecraft makes it's theoretical journey to our nearest neighbour. We would almost certainly catch it up and pass it. We might not even recognise it as being of our own creation.
You're gonna need a
We are too far away in tech for doing any travelling.
If we still exist in a 1000 years and are not back to the Middle Ages we might have technology that make it feasible and somewhat affordable to colonise Mars or something… everything else is fantasy.
My bet is that the human race will not be around in 1000 years from now.
If we still exist in a 1000 years and are not back to the Middle Ages we might have technology that make it feasible and somewhat affordable to colonise Mars or something… everything else is fantasy.
My bet is that the human race will not be around in 1000 years from now.
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