54 Years Ago Today
Discussion
I was astounded to come face to face with Buzz Aldrin at Goodwood Revival a few years back.
And similarly to touch an actual moon rock at Johnson Space Centre.
It's only relatively recently that photos of the remains of activity on the Moon have become available,
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/news/apollo...
Still can't see any evidence of Sam Bell or the helium-3 mining...
And similarly to touch an actual moon rock at Johnson Space Centre.
It's only relatively recently that photos of the remains of activity on the Moon have become available,
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/news/apollo...
Still can't see any evidence of Sam Bell or the helium-3 mining...
Panamax said:
It's only relatively recently that photos of the remains of activity on the Moon have become available,
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/news/apollo...
LRO is still functioning but it's been imaging the Apollo (and other unmanned landing sites) since 2011.https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/news/apollo...
Yes indeed, relatively recent in terms of 1969 and its orbit lowered more recently still to improve the imaging.
I remain intrigued that in November 1969 Apollo 12 astronauts were able to walk to where Surveyor 3 had landed and recover various parts which were brought back to earth. That's some fancy flying by any standards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveyor_3
I remain intrigued that in November 1969 Apollo 12 astronauts were able to walk to where Surveyor 3 had landed and recover various parts which were brought back to earth. That's some fancy flying by any standards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveyor_3
Panamax said:
I remain intrigued that in November 1969 Apollo 12 astronauts were able to walk to where Surveyor 3 had landed and recover various parts which were brought back to earth. That's some fancy flying by any standards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveyor_3
Didn't know that - truly remarkable. And all done with skill and a pocket calculator.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveyor_3
I met Buzz a few years ago at a book signing in Oxford. I'd bought a book about something, and in it was an advert for the event - and only £6 a ticket!
But time passes. Not long afterwards I mentioned it to a friend, about 40, and she said 'Oh yes I've heard of him, he's on that dance show on telly'. She had no idea he was the second man on the moon
Panamax said:
in November 1969 Apollo 12 astronauts were able to walk to where Surveyor 3 had landed and recover various parts
Separately, at exactly the same time as Apollo 11's first lunar landing, the Russians sent an unmanned craft called Luna 15 to land close by. They intended it would pick up samples and return to earth more quickly than Armstrong/Aldrin/Collins, stealing their limelight. Unfortunately for Johnny Russian their spacecraft "landed" at something around 300 mph and was never heard from again....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_15
They did get it right eventually and did manage a couple of lunar sample return missions. They also operated two unmanned lunar rovers in the early 1970s - no mean achievement given the technology of the era.
Of course, they did have a manned programme as well but they couldn't get their large booster rocket (the N1) to work properly so they eventually gave up.
I've seen their lunar lander and it was even more shonky than the Grumman Lunar Module. Here's some images of the real thing and my model of it -
The "bath tub" device on wheels in the first picture is their Lunar Rover.
Of course, they did have a manned programme as well but they couldn't get their large booster rocket (the N1) to work properly so they eventually gave up.
I've seen their lunar lander and it was even more shonky than the Grumman Lunar Module. Here's some images of the real thing and my model of it -
The "bath tub" device on wheels in the first picture is their Lunar Rover.
That's nice work.
Did you go to the exhibition of Russian space/lunar stuff at the Science Museum a few years back? Fascinating. And terrifying to realise they stacked more and more people into the same tiny craft by gradually throwing more stuff away, including the pressure suits.
IIRC it was the Russians who developed a reasonably functional "space toilet", so they certainly get maximum points for that.
Did you go to the exhibition of Russian space/lunar stuff at the Science Museum a few years back? Fascinating. And terrifying to realise they stacked more and more people into the same tiny craft by gradually throwing more stuff away, including the pressure suits.
IIRC it was the Russians who developed a reasonably functional "space toilet", so they certainly get maximum points for that.
Eric Mc said:
I've seen their lunar lander and it was even more shonky than the Grumman Lunar Module.
It looks more like Jules Verne's Nautilus inside than a spacecraft. Very primitive and probably just as well it was never used.The problem with stealing technology, as Communist countries tend to do, is that whilst you save time and money, you're always a step behind.
Whether by chance or algorithm I saw a few clips the other day - JFK's speech, and the sometimes clipped part - '...because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills' and how right he was. Then for some reason I ended up looking at what the heart rates were. Commander Armstrong hit 110 on launch, [Buzz stayed at 88 as he was just a pax! 
]and for about ten seconds on landing on the moon, with overloaded computers, buzzing alarms, very low fuel, first ever contact and 3 second delays - his heart went from 110 to 150, then straight back down on landing. Those men were Gods.
]and for about ten seconds on landing on the moon, with overloaded computers, buzzing alarms, very low fuel, first ever contact and 3 second delays - his heart went from 110 to 150, then straight back down on landing. Those men were Gods.Simpo Two said:
It looks more like Jules Verne's Nautilus inside than a spacecraft. Very primitive and probably just as well it was never used.
The problem with stealing technology, as Communist countries tend to do, is that whilst you save time and money, you're always a step behind.
As far as I am aware, Korolev stole or borrowed absolutely nothing of American technology for his lunar landing programme. In fact, the engineering principles he used were very different from that used in Apollo.The problem with stealing technology, as Communist countries tend to do, is that whilst you save time and money, you're always a step behind.
He was hamstrung because they were not developing a single large 1.5 million pound thrust engine like the Americans did for the Saturn V first stage (the F-1 engine). Instead, he went for multi-clustered approach with over 30 lower thrust (but very efficient) engines. Coincidentally, this approach is being followed by Musk and his Starship booster.
The problem for Korolev and his N1 rocket was that they started late, there was too much infighting and Korolev himself died part way through the programme. Every time they tried to fly the N1 it failed. Musk take note.
The Soviet Lunar Module was a one man only craft. It used the same engine for descent to the lunar surface and also for ascent off the surface. It was very different in concept to Grumman's Lunar Module.
Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 24th July 12:13
Eric Mc said:
As far as I am aware, Korolev stole or borrowed absolutely nothing of American technology for his lunar landing programme. In fact, the engineering principles he used were very different from that used in Apollo.
Sure, it was a generalisation. I think the Russians main disadvantage was that they didn't have von Braun (and wouldn't have used him effectively had they got him). Nobody wanted to defect or surrender to Russia...andy_s said:
Those men were Gods.
'The Right Stuff' indeed. Every generation has them, but they only become apparent in exceptional circumstances.I can't immediately think of any modern astronauts apart from Canadian Colonel somebody and Tim somebody. Probably because they just go round and round the Earth and nobody's interested in that. The more tech we have, the less far we go it seems.
Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 24th July 12:19
They had Korolev, who was every bit as inspirational and motivating as Von Braun. However, because The Politburo did not want any one person being accredited with being a driving force behind their space achievements, his name was never released to the general public. He was only ever referred to as The Chief Designer. In fact, the Soviets relied far more on Korolev then the Americans did on Von Braun.
Unfortunately for the Soviets, Korolev's poor health (which had never been great since his incarceration in a Gulag in the late 1930s) finally brought about his early demise, just when they really needed him. They never had anybody of a similar calibre to replace him.
Quite a few Germans did actually voluntarilly work for the Russians. They were given quite attractive financial inducements to "come over" to the Soviet side after the war. Don't forget that National Socialism was a form of Socialism - and quite a few of the scientists and engineers who had worked in the German rocket programme had socialist tendencies. They actually nearly all returned to Germany when they discovered that the Russians were not really giving them new stuff to do - mainly using them as checkers for their own ideas.
Unfortunately for the Soviets, Korolev's poor health (which had never been great since his incarceration in a Gulag in the late 1930s) finally brought about his early demise, just when they really needed him. They never had anybody of a similar calibre to replace him.
Quite a few Germans did actually voluntarilly work for the Russians. They were given quite attractive financial inducements to "come over" to the Soviet side after the war. Don't forget that National Socialism was a form of Socialism - and quite a few of the scientists and engineers who had worked in the German rocket programme had socialist tendencies. They actually nearly all returned to Germany when they discovered that the Russians were not really giving them new stuff to do - mainly using them as checkers for their own ideas.
Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 24th July 13:05
Want more thrust? Add some more engines! Unfortunately this made Russian designs for the first stage wider and wider meaning more aerodynamic drag, which wasn't helpful. They also struggled to come up with a computer system that could reliably control and balance so many engines simultaneously. Their individual engines became pretty reliable though and were adopted by the Americans after Apollo, albeit partly for political reasons.
Getting something as big and complicated as Saturn V/Apollo to work back in the 1960s was pretty darned impressive.
Getting something as big and complicated as Saturn V/Apollo to work back in the 1960s was pretty darned impressive.
Indeed it was. The Russians did eventually get their closed cycle engines to work, although it was one of these engines that went bang on the Antares launch failure back in 2014.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAymWDiBRc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAymWDiBRc
andy_s said:
Whether by chance or algorithm I saw a few clips the other day - JFK's speech, and the sometimes clipped part - '...because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills' and how right he was. Then for some reason I ended up looking at what the heart rates were. Commander Armstrong hit 110 on launch, [Buzz stayed at 88 as he was just a pax! ]and for about ten seconds on landing on the moon, with overloaded computers, buzzing alarms, very low fuel, first ever contact and 3 second delays - his heart went from 110 to 150, then straight back down on landing. Those men were Gods.
The computer wasn't overloaded, it worked fine, especially when the meat popsicles stopped pressing buttons. ]and for about ten seconds on landing on the moon, with overloaded computers, buzzing alarms, very low fuel, first ever contact and 3 second delays - his heart went from 110 to 150, then straight back down on landing. Those men were Gods.
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