The more science I know, the less I know
Discussion
When I first started studying physics and chemistry, the topics we covered (from classical science eg mechanics) made sense and I could relate to them. However the more I learned the more confusing, counter intuitive and unimaginable it became. Particle wave duality? The double slit experiment? Special and general relativity and how time isn’t constant. Nothing seems relatable to every day life and every day experience. Lots of things I know eg that the universe is expanding don’t mean much to me it I am honest. How can it expand? What does it mean?
Skeptisk said:
When I first started studying physics and chemistry, the topics we covered (from classical science eg mechanics) made sense and I could relate to them. However the more I learned the more confusing, counter intuitive and unimaginable it became. Particle wave duality? The double slit experiment? Special and general relativity and how time isn’t constant. Nothing seems relatable to every day life and every day experience. Lots of things I know eg that the universe is expanding don’t mean much to me it I am honest. How can it expand? What does it mean?
I can certainly relate to this. The reason I studied physics at O and A level was because I found it interesting as it explained things you could see/measure/experience, such as why a straight stick looks to be bent at an angle when put half into a glass of water. It made sense, along with Newtonian mechanics etc..When learning about models of the atom, you'd learn one model, then a couple of years later, be told that what you'd learned was an over-simplified model so now learn a more complex model, then rinse and repeat several times.
The stuff about wave/particle duality and special relativity, I could understand/handle, but by the time it got to uni-level stuff about quantum tunnelling, strange and charm quarks, probability theory, advanced thermodynamics and all the rest, I'd lost almost all interest in it, which is the main reason I didn't complete a physics degree, and instead switched to a career in computing - an area I've found enjoyable and varied right through until I retired a couple of years ago.
ETA - I've still remained interested in a lot of science, expecially getting a basic understanding of some of the latest developments, but more from a general knowledge aspect rather than actually studying it and going through the massively complex calculations etc..
Currently reading a book called Physics of the Future by Michio Kaku (a leading theoretical physicist who spoke to hundreds of top scientists) which looks at various areas of science and likely developments/inventions over the next hundred years. It's pretty interesting, although in some areas technology has moved more quickly than he predicts - as it was written 11 years ago.
Edited by C n C on Monday 17th July 19:06
Steve Campbell said:
As one of my sons school teachers said, as you progress in science :
Biology becomes Chemistry, Chemistry becomes Physics, Physics becomes maths, and maths becomes impossible ????
I view it as a question of scale. Zooming in...Biology becomes Chemistry, Chemistry becomes Physics, Physics becomes maths, and maths becomes impossible ????
Astronomy - Geology - Ecology - Biology - Biochemistry - Chemistry - Physics - Maths
I thought I knew a fair bit about fluid film bearings.
Then I worked with some engineers/tribologists, one of which was responsible for some of the most original forward-thinking work in analysing thrust bearings ever published. I realised then I knew almost nothing.
Then I worked with some engineers on gas bearings, one of which had been instrumental in the research behind some seminal work in the field. I had problems getting my head around this topic. As oil becomes hotter the viscosity falls, as gas becomes hotter the viscosity rises. Oh dear - mentally start again. The theory in the textbook made my head hurt. I’m used to the derivation of an equation taking up a page or 2, but when the equation of state FILLS the page, then its beyond me – by some margin.
Where I am on the Dunning Kruger curve? Maybe halfway/a third up the slope of enlightenment. I am not sure if “enlightenment” is the correct term though…!
Then I worked with some engineers/tribologists, one of which was responsible for some of the most original forward-thinking work in analysing thrust bearings ever published. I realised then I knew almost nothing.
Then I worked with some engineers on gas bearings, one of which had been instrumental in the research behind some seminal work in the field. I had problems getting my head around this topic. As oil becomes hotter the viscosity falls, as gas becomes hotter the viscosity rises. Oh dear - mentally start again. The theory in the textbook made my head hurt. I’m used to the derivation of an equation taking up a page or 2, but when the equation of state FILLS the page, then its beyond me – by some margin.
Where I am on the Dunning Kruger curve? Maybe halfway/a third up the slope of enlightenment. I am not sure if “enlightenment” is the correct term though…!
Simpo Two said:
To be more accurate, 'The more science I know, the more I realise I don't know'.
They had one of the guys who discovered Dark energy on The Infinite Monkey Cage a while back. They basically discovered 2/3 of the (now) known universe but don't really know how it works. He said he got the Nobel Prize for reducing the sum total of human knowledge 
Simpo Two said:
I view it as a question of scale. Zooming in...
Astronomy - Geology - Ecology - Biology - Biochemistry - Chemistry - Physics - Maths
Astronomy - Geology - Ecology - Biology - Biochemistry - Chemistry - Physics - Maths
https://xkcd.com/435/
RizzoTheRat said:
My son is a mathematician, the above is one of his favourite cartoons and he took great delight in sending it to me some years ago. He maintains a haughty aloofness when compared to all other disciplines and has even been sympathetic to them in a condescending sort of way.
Skeptisk said:
When I first started studying physics and chemistry, the topics we covered (from classical science eg mechanics) made sense and I could relate to them. However the more I learned the more confusing, counter intuitive and unimaginable it became. Particle wave duality? The double slit experiment? Special and general relativity and how time isn’t constant. Nothing seems relatable to every day life and every day experience. Lots of things I know eg that the universe is expanding don’t mean much to me it I am honest. How can it expand? What does it mean?
It means 2 objects can be moving away from each other at faster than the speed of light.Which I always thought was pretty cool.
loquacious said:
And what is it expanding into?
This! It's been driving me mad all my life. I can't get over thinking that there has to be an edge/limit somewhere.As for the big bang, give me a break!
How can nothing explode into everything and start filling a place that wasn't there to begin with?
Cryssys said:
loquacious said:
And what is it expanding into?
This! It's been driving me mad all my life. I can't get over thinking that there has to be an edge/limit somewhere.As for the big bang, give me a break!
How can nothing explode into everything and start filling a place that wasn't there to begin with?
skwdenyer said:
Cryssys said:
loquacious said:
And what is it expanding into?
This! It's been driving me mad all my life. I can't get over thinking that there has to be an edge/limit somewhere.As for the big bang, give me a break!
How can nothing explode into everything and start filling a place that wasn't there to begin with?
I don't think that the universe is infinite rather that everything exists within the confines of an expanding spacetime ball. That spacetime ball (and associated matter) was ejected from the singularity of a supermassive black hole. Ultimately the spacetime ball will be consumed by a super massive black hole and the whole cycle of ejection / expansion / collapse / consumption by black holes will repeat.
Obviously pure conjecture and my A-level physics and mathematics is many many moons in the past.
As to how that cycle might have begun..... I'd say you could ask a theologist or a physicist and get two different answers, both of which might be right.
Snoggledog said:
skwdenyer said:
Cryssys said:
loquacious said:
And what is it expanding into?
This! It's been driving me mad all my life. I can't get over thinking that there has to be an edge/limit somewhere.As for the big bang, give me a break!
How can nothing explode into everything and start filling a place that wasn't there to begin with?
I don't think that the universe is infinite rather that everything exists within the confines of an expanding spacetime ball. That spacetime ball (and associated matter) was ejected from the singularity of a supermassive black hole. Ultimately the spacetime ball will be consumed by a super massive black hole and the whole cycle of ejection / expansion / collapse / consumption by black holes will repeat.
Obviously pure conjecture and my A-level physics and mathematics is many many moons in the past.
As to how that cycle might have begun..... I'd say you could ask a theologist or a physicist and get two different answers, both of which might be right.
Our Earth-based view of the world potentially fails us here. Everything in our experience must be inside of something, or outside of something (even if that something is the universe).
skwdenyer said:
Snoggledog said:
skwdenyer said:
Cryssys said:
loquacious said:
And what is it expanding into?
This! It's been driving me mad all my life. I can't get over thinking that there has to be an edge/limit somewhere.As for the big bang, give me a break!
How can nothing explode into everything and start filling a place that wasn't there to begin with?
I don't think that the universe is infinite rather that everything exists within the confines of an expanding spacetime ball. That spacetime ball (and associated matter) was ejected from the singularity of a supermassive black hole. Ultimately the spacetime ball will be consumed by a super massive black hole and the whole cycle of ejection / expansion / collapse / consumption by black holes will repeat.
Obviously pure conjecture and my A-level physics and mathematics is many many moons in the past.
As to how that cycle might have begun..... I'd say you could ask a theologist or a physicist and get two different answers, both of which might be right.
Our Earth-based view of the world potentially fails us here. Everything in our experience must be inside of something, or outside of something (even if that something is the universe).
And yes, you're quite right in that what, and how we perceive informs our view of what is and isn't possible. However, it might well be that only the people who find higher and more obscure mathematics pleasurable could provide us with a meaningful answer. I doubt that we'll ever know in our lifetime but it's fun to speculate.
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