Sand batteries

[ChevronB19]

Possible game changer for storing ‘waste’ renewable energy?

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/38552/202207...

(Yes, I know ‘battery’ is a bit of a misnomer as it stores heat, not electricity).

[Simpo Two]

Tragic that they call it a battery at all. It's this kind of fake 'woo' that gets idiots excited. It's sand FFS, and it uses electricity to warm up.

[Zetec-S]

Interesting concept, but I recall reading an article not so long ago that there is potentially a global shortage of sand, and that the methods used to extract it are becoming more and more damaging to the environment.

[deckster]

Simpo Two said:

Tragic that they call it a battery at all. It's this kind of fake 'woo' that gets idiots excited. It's sand FFS, and it uses electricity to warm up.

Um, yeah. That's the point. It's an energy store. A very big, capacious, and cheap energy store. Just like a battery (or a cell, if you must). So technically the term is incorrect, but that doesn't make it fake or 'woo'.

[Eric Mc]

Sounds like a storage heater to me. They've been around for decades - usually using sand based blocks. I used to work in an office 40 years ago that was heated by storage heaters.

[ChevronB19]

Simpo Two said:

Tragic that they call it a battery at all. It's this kind of fake 'woo' that gets idiots excited. It's sand FFS, and it uses electricity to warm up.

It’s still an interesting (albeit not new) concept, and in this case it is actually being used.

[Simpo Two]

deckster said:

Simpo Two said:

Tragic that they call it a battery at all. It's this kind of fake 'woo' that gets idiots excited. It's sand FFS, and it uses electricity to warm up.

Um, yeah. That's the point. It's an energy store. A very big, capacious, and cheap energy store. Just like a battery (or a cell, if you must). So technically the term is incorrect, but that doesn't make it fake or 'woo'.

But the average ecomentalist, who is not awfully good at thinking from A to Z in a straight line, will think you can make electricity out of sand, run cars off it etc. It's a misleading an unnecessary word. Just call it an energy store, or a heat store. But they call it a battery because that sounds more desirable. Very poor journalism. I would expect it from the BBC, but not a website called 'Science Times'.

It's no more advanced than primitive tribes burying hot rocks on the beach to cook fish.

Zetec-S said:

Interesting concept, but I recall reading an article not so long ago that there is potentially a global shortage of sand, and that the methods used to extract it are becoming more and more damaging to the environment.

Yes, I expect the Chinese have bought the Sahara....

[ChevronB19]

Simpo Two said:

deckster said:

Simpo Two said:

Tragic that they call it a battery at all. It's this kind of fake 'woo' that gets idiots excited. It's sand FFS, and it uses electricity to warm up.

Um, yeah. That's the point. It's an energy store. A very big, capacious, and cheap energy store. Just like a battery (or a cell, if you must). So technically the term is incorrect, but that doesn't make it fake or 'woo'.

But the average ecomentalist, who is not awfully good at thinking from A to Z in a straight line, will think you can make electricity out of sand, run cars off it etc. It's a misleading an unnecessary word. Just call it an energy store, or a heat store. But they call it a battery because that sounds more desirable. Very poor journalism. I would expect it from the BBC, but not a website called 'Science Times'.

It's no more advanced than primitive tribes burying hot rocks on the beach to cook fish.

Zetec-S said:

Interesting concept, but I recall reading an article not so long ago that there is potentially a global shortage of sand, and that the methods used to extract it are becoming more and more damaging to the environment.

Yes, I expect the Chinese have bought the Sahara....

Going off topic a bit, but you can turn heat into electricity…

I agree it’s an unfortunate usage of the term, but it still has ‘potential’

[deckster]

Simpo Two said:

But the average ecomentalist, who is not awfully good at thinking from A to Z in a straight line, will think you can make electricity out of sand, run cars off it etc. It's a misleading an unnecessary word. Just call it an energy store, or a heat store. But they call it a battery because that sounds more desirable. Very poor journalism. I would expect it from the BBC, but not a website called 'Science Times'.

It's no more advanced than primitive tribes burying hot rocks on the beach to cook fish.

In the same way that a Chiron is no more advanced than a Roman chariot, or perhaps a Model T.

Most people won't understand what an "energy store" is. But they know what a battery is and in this context despite being technically incorrect the meaning is entirely unambiguous.

Besides all that, I'm not sure what you have against a novel and interesting potential solution for local energy storage? It seems pretty non-contentious to be investigating anything that might make it easier to smooth out urban energy usage.

[sospan]

It will store thermal energy that can then be used as a supply of heat for whatever purpose you need it for. It will eventually need renewal of the heat content.
A storage heater type system.
Water is also used as a heat store in some situations. Solar heat generators that have water flowing through them to a tank for storage.
Compost generates heat as the biomass decays. It is a source already used in some places.
Ground source and air source heat pumps are a means of extracting heat stored in the ground or air from natural heating.
Geothermal heat is a variant of extracting naturally generated heat.
The key is where and how the heat to be stored/extracted is generated.
When I first saw the term “ sand battery” I was intrigued. Sand generating electricity? Hmmmm.

[sospan]

It will store thermal energy that can then be used as a supply of heat for whatever purpose you need it for. It will eventually need renewal of the heat content.
A storage heater type system.
Water is also used as a heat store in some situations. Solar heat generators that have water flowing through them to a tank for storage.
Compost generates heat as the biomass decays. It is a source already used in some places.
Ground source and air source heat pumps are a means of extracting heat stored in the ground or air from natural heating.
Geothermal heat is a variant of extracting naturally generated heat.
The key is where and how the heat to be stored/extracted is generated.
When I first saw the term “ sand battery” I was intrigued. Sand generating electricity? Hmmmm.

[ruggedscotty]

Simpo Two said:

deckster said:

Simpo Two said:

Tragic that they call it a battery at all. It's this kind of fake 'woo' that gets idiots excited. It's sand FFS, and it uses electricity to warm up.

Um, yeah. That's the point. It's an energy store. A very big, capacious, and cheap energy store. Just like a battery (or a cell, if you must). So technically the term is incorrect, but that doesn't make it fake or 'woo'.

But the average ecomentalist, who is not awfully good at thinking from A to Z in a straight line, will think you can make electricity out of sand, run cars off it etc. It's a misleading an unnecessary word. Just call it an energy store, or a heat store. But they call it a battery because that sounds more desirable. Very poor journalism. I would expect it from the BBC, but not a website called 'Science Times'.

It's no more advanced than primitive tribes burying hot rocks on the beach to cook fish.

Zetec-S said:

Interesting concept, but I recall reading an article not so long ago that there is potentially a global shortage of sand, and that the methods used to extract it are becoming more and more damaging to the environment.

Yes, I expect the Chinese have bought the Sahara....

all this talk about batteries..... well what do you think they would make of

battery sergeant major williams




would it be that difficult for them or you think the public would think they could connect him up to their tesla and get a few hundred miles out of him...

crikey... indeed.

Or when someone mentions a reactor they go all chernobyl and 3.6 Roentgen? Not great, not terrible....

yes some words are associated with items but give the general population a bit more credit about things.

[BoRED S2upid]

Zetec-S said:

Interesting concept, but I recall reading an article not so long ago that there is potentially a global shortage of sand, and that the methods used to extract it are becoming more and more damaging to the environment.

Isn’t that a certain grade of sand? There’s st loads of sand in the world I think this uses the crap stuff that you can’t build with.

[Zetec-S]

BoRED S2upid said:

Isn’t that a certain grade of sand? There’s st loads of sand in the world I think this uses the crap stuff that you can’t build with.

The article mentions builders sand, so the same stuff which is in limited supply.

Simpo Two said:

Yes, I expect the Chinese have bought the Sahara....

I believe places like Dubai have to import sand for construction

[BoRED S2upid]

Zetec-S said:

I believe places like Dubai have to import sand for construction

https://apple.news/AVyt9eSAeScScZgE_psxXVA

Low grade sand.

[RizzoTheRat]

They're claiming $10/kWh storage capacity which is insanely cheap when you think Teslas Powerwall is about $600/kWh, although that's not comparing similar scale systems. Storing waste industrial heat generated during the day and using to warm houses at night seems like a great idea. Presumably it gets less efficient to dump heat in to it the hotter the sand is, but if companies can sell thier waste heat it's worth them spending more to trap it rather than just dump it..

[Zetec-S]

BoRED S2upid said:

https://apple.news/AVyt9eSAeScScZgE_psxXVA

Low grade sand.

Article says low grade sand and also mentions builder's sand...???

BBC news said:

The key element in this device? Around 100 tonnes of builder's sand, piled high inside a dull grey silo.

[sherman]

ChevronB19 said:

Going off topic a bit, but you can turn heat into electricity…

I agree it’s an unfortunate usage of the term, but it still has ‘potential’

Heat spins fan. Fan spins turbine with magnets attached inside copper coil. Electricity produced.
Heat likes to flow from hot to cold hence wind.

[bmwmike]

Was thinking of making a (slightly smaller version) in my garden to try it out.

The stuff i do for fun

Also why don't they run pipes through the sahara then?

[911r]

Wooooo