Universe and the big bang Grandsons got me stumped

Universe and the big bang Grandsons got me stumped

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silverfoxcc

Original Poster:

7,832 posts

152 months

Monday 3rd May 2021
quotequote all
Getting him interested in Astronomy and told him about the big bang theory where everything is flung out from a central point. and thats why
galaxies are all different distances from us ( drew a circle and used the radians and once he got that concept used a ball to show him.

He then came back yesterday and said he had been reading books and wantied to know why if the universe was expanding how can our galaxy and the Andromeda galaxy eventually collide if they are going away from one point

I told him i didn;t know and would find out.

Anyone out there explain why as i could not see any flaw in his logic or am i missing something really simple?

He is 8 so a dumbed down answer would help for now

Sheets Tabuer

19,645 posts

222 months

Monday 3rd May 2021
quotequote all
silverfoxcc said:
He is 8 so a dumbed down answer would help for now
Gravity

BorkBorkBork

731 posts

58 months

Monday 3rd May 2021
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I may be wrong, but I think local galaxy clusters are tied together by gravity, and locally that overcomes the dark energy that is driving the expansion of the Universe.

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey

5,857 posts

62 months

Monday 3rd May 2021
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Simplest explanation for an 8 year old.

Gravity affects expansion. Bodies aren't simply on a linear trajectory due to gravity.

ETA push down a mattress and roll some marbles on it. Shows how gravity effects things.

Edited by take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey on Monday 3rd May 19:45

ReverendCounter

6,087 posts

183 months

Monday 3rd May 2021
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Maybe it would help to explain that at the centre of the two galaxies, indeed all, are black holes which are pulling these two galaxies together.

Terminator X

16,327 posts

211 months

Monday 3rd May 2021
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Black holes pulling everything closer whilst the universe itself still expands?

TX.

Eric Mc

122,855 posts

272 months

Monday 3rd May 2021
quotequote all
ALL of the galaxies are NOT moving away from each other. In fact, many are actually closing in on each other and many have collided in the past. Some can be seen colliding now.
Galaxies exist in gravitationally bound clusters and even clusters of clusters- called “superclusters”. It is these clusters and superclusters which are moving apart.

FourWheelDrift

89,634 posts

291 months

Monday 3rd May 2021
quotequote all
Big bang, explosion of unstable matter forming an expanding universe until gravitational forces start to bring everything back together again into one unstable mass, followed by another big bang forming a new expanding universe and repeat again.

ReverendCounter

6,087 posts

183 months

Monday 3rd May 2021
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
Black holes pulling everything closer whilst the universe itself still expands?

TX.
I think for simplicity's sake to the 8 year old, it would be safe to set out that "despite the universe expanding, some galaxies will move in different directions to the expansion due to the attraction of the supermassive black holes at the centres of, for example, the milky way and our nearest neighbour, andromeda".

(on second thoughts I would probably leave the bit out about the supermassive size of the black holes in case it freaks him out a bit)

Eric Mc

122,855 posts

272 months

Monday 3rd May 2021
quotequote all
FourWheelDrift said:
Big bang, explosion of unstable matter forming an expanding universe until gravitational forces start to bring everything back together again into one unstable mass, followed by another big bang forming a new expanding universe and repeat again.
That doesn’t explain why some galaxies approach each other.
The general position is that the universe is expanding and there is, at the moment, no indication of any mechanism which can cause it to contract.

TwigtheWonderkid

44,670 posts

157 months

Monday 3rd May 2021
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For an 8 year old, hundreds of trains are moving from a central point (London), heading away from London in many different directions. But people on the trains, who find themselves grouped together, can still move towards each other.

Eric Mc

122,855 posts

272 months

Tuesday 4th May 2021
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Good analogy.


tight fart

3,078 posts

280 months

Tuesday 4th May 2021
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By the time he’s our age the Big Bang theory will also be a thing of the past.

RUSTILLDOWN

370 posts

75 months

Tuesday 4th May 2021
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silverfoxcc said:
Getting him interested in Astronomy and told him about the big bang theory where everything is flung out from a central point. and thats why
galaxies are all different distances from us ( drew a circle and used the radians and once he got that concept used a ball to show him.

He then came back yesterday and said he had been reading books and wantied to know why if the universe was expanding how can our galaxy and the Andromeda galaxy eventually collide if they are going away from one point

I told him i didn;t know and would find out.

Anyone out there explain why as i could not see any flaw in his logic or am i missing something really simple?

He is 8 so a dumbed down answer would help for now
Answer...

When two people face each other and one of them farts in the opposite direction the other person will still smell it.

eharding

14,147 posts

291 months

Tuesday 4th May 2021
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tight fart said:
By the time he’s our age the Big Bang theory will also be a thing of the past.
The TV show maybe. The Big Bang model has some pretty compelling observational evidence to back up the theory - cosmic microwave background radiation and galactic red shift for example. You might hope that in 50 years we'll have resolved the current cosmological crisis revolving around different models of precisely how fast the universe is expanding though.

As regards reconciling cosmic expansion with galactic collision, consider two ants on the surface of an inflating balloon with a short pre-tensioned piece of elastic between them - the inflation of the balloon, which would tend to move them apart, is relatively slow but the tension in the elastic is strong enough to drag them together more quickly than the expansion of the balloon can pull them apart.

anonymous-user

61 months

Tuesday 4th May 2021
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Wait until he asks what was there before the big bang

TwigtheWonderkid

44,670 posts

157 months

Tuesday 4th May 2021
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MonkeyMatt said:
Wait until he asks what was there before the big bang
Or if the universe is expanding, what's it expanding into?

anonymous-user

61 months

Tuesday 4th May 2021
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TwigtheWonderkid said:
MonkeyMatt said:
Wait until he asks what was there before the big bang
Or if the universe is expanding, what's it expanding into?
If our puny brains knew the answer they would explode just like the big bang

Wayoftheflower

1,397 posts

242 months

Tuesday 4th May 2021
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silverfoxcc said:
He then came back yesterday and said he had been reading books and wantied to know why if the universe was expanding how can our galaxy and the Andromeda galaxy eventually collide if they are going away from one point
How about an analogy. Remove a dimension from "space" and think of it like the surface of a a bubble.
https://youtu.be/sTH3zzQwPI4
Swirling variations of the 2D surface of a bubble can move and collide while the bubble itself is still expanding.
Swirling variations of the 3D "surface" of space can move and collide while space itself is still expanding.

Clive Milk

429 posts

47 months

Thursday 6th May 2021
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To be honest we don't even know if they will collide.

Just our current calculations. People say gravity, but nowadays we have dark energy and dark matter.

Tomorrow we might have Dark Spaghetti

I'd tell him the above just for fun

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