Disillusioned with physics
Discussion
When I was learning physics at school I thought that humanity knew generally how the universe works. However the more I learnt the more I realised our understanding is very incomplete. Still I did think that within my lifetime the big questions would be answered eg a proper understanding of quantum physics (not just the maths), cosmology and theory of everything bringing together particle physics and general relativity. Yet as time has passed we don’t seem closer. There is still no satisfactory explanation of the double slit experiment, the proof of the existence of the Higgs Boson has not led to new physics and we are no closer to a unified theory. Worse, it seems that we were overconfident about our understanding and now find that most of the universe (dark matter and dark energy) is not explained. It feels like we were climbing a mountain and thought we were close the summit but have realised that we only reached a plateau and the real summit is some way off, hidden in the clouds so that we don’t know how far we have to go.
Perhaps for physicists this is a good state of affairs as there is still so much to learn but for those of us hoping that there would be some answers within our limited lifespan on earth, not so positive.
Perhaps for physicists this is a good state of affairs as there is still so much to learn but for those of us hoping that there would be some answers within our limited lifespan on earth, not so positive.
I think physics is one of the few sciences that is still relatively untouched by exterior/ulterior motives.
Medicine/'health care' is bankrolled by the pharmaceutical companies who have no interest in prevention, just selling 'cures' and on-going care.
Climate/ecology is governed by those who sell energy and has little to do with what's best for the planet.
Farming and food production is largely controlled by massive corporations that have no interest in any of the above.
I like physics, though I've never studied it in any great depth.
/tinfoilhat
Medicine/'health care' is bankrolled by the pharmaceutical companies who have no interest in prevention, just selling 'cures' and on-going care.
Climate/ecology is governed by those who sell energy and has little to do with what's best for the planet.
Farming and food production is largely controlled by massive corporations that have no interest in any of the above.
I like physics, though I've never studied it in any great depth.
/tinfoilhat
MiniMan64 said:
See I’m the opposite, I love Physics because there’s always something new and there’s so much more to discover
I'm with you, the more you learn, the more you discover to learn and the better equipped you are to do so. If I had a religion it would be based around the concept that consciousness exists to better appreciate the scope of the universe. With a bit of 'be excellent to one another' thrown in. Science has given us everything really, it's a voyage of discovery, nearly everything we use comes from science, modern life wouldn't be modern without it.
Big leaps often come from exceptional individuals, ones that can theorise and prove something that then others can understand and teach to the masses. Then the many scientists can often use the discovery to put to practical use (it can make some money!).
It's like a infinite relay race for the top scientists, they must all know they won't solve everything but they try to advance their field and they know at the very least it'll help those that follow.
its a shame that beyond the odd Astronomy programme science is so far advanced from everyday life and people's knowledge that it doesn't make saleable tele so remains a niche and often has negative (nerd boffin geek) connotations associated with it.
Big leaps often come from exceptional individuals, ones that can theorise and prove something that then others can understand and teach to the masses. Then the many scientists can often use the discovery to put to practical use (it can make some money!).
It's like a infinite relay race for the top scientists, they must all know they won't solve everything but they try to advance their field and they know at the very least it'll help those that follow.
its a shame that beyond the odd Astronomy programme science is so far advanced from everyday life and people's knowledge that it doesn't make saleable tele so remains a niche and often has negative (nerd boffin geek) connotations associated with it.
Most of my education has come later in life. And I agree with the OP, it’s clear that our understanding of the physical world is very limited. We don’t know what 95% of the cosmos is made up of, for instance. And quantum mechanics, while predictable, is a complete mind f
k.
My own suspicion is that the cosmos is analogous to a computer. I think that goes a long way to explaining gravity, the speed of light and time dilation. It appears the rate of change slows in a region where there is more information to process. And the wave function appears to be an ideal mechanism for maximising efficiency in an information processing system.
k.My own suspicion is that the cosmos is analogous to a computer. I think that goes a long way to explaining gravity, the speed of light and time dilation. It appears the rate of change slows in a region where there is more information to process. And the wave function appears to be an ideal mechanism for maximising efficiency in an information processing system.
LordGrover said:
I think physics is one of the few sciences that is still relatively untouched by exterior/ulterior motives.
Medicine/'health care' is bankrolled by the pharmaceutical companies who have no interest in prevention, just selling 'cures' and on-going care.
Climate/ecology is governed by those who sell energy and has little to do with what's best for the planet.
Farming and food production is largely controlled by massive corporations that have no interest in any of the above.
I like physics, though I've never studied it in any great depth.
/tinfoilhat
Manhattan project, various nuclear weapons programmes, physics is very touched by political motivesMedicine/'health care' is bankrolled by the pharmaceutical companies who have no interest in prevention, just selling 'cures' and on-going care.
Climate/ecology is governed by those who sell energy and has little to do with what's best for the planet.
Farming and food production is largely controlled by massive corporations that have no interest in any of the above.
I like physics, though I've never studied it in any great depth.
/tinfoilhat
When in comes to science (and engineering) the realisation that we are further from complete understanding than we thought is a positive step. Arrogance blocks learning. Accepted ignorance enables learning.
Don‘t be disappointed. It’s difficult, it’s a struggle. With some luck and a lot of time we’ll figure it out.
Don‘t be disappointed. It’s difficult, it’s a struggle. With some luck and a lot of time we’ll figure it out.
At the end of the 19th Century, many leading physicists thought that the domain had essentially been "sewn up". The big questions had (in their minds) been answered, and the 20th Century would only bring fettling of what had already been established. In the first few decades, Relativity (Special and General) and Quantum Mechanics came along, completely altering the landscape of understanding.
The Standard Model and String Theory came later. Fission and Fusion were also discovered. Cosmology in particular advanced massively in the 20th Century. The "Steady State" theory of the universe was dominant before, the Big Bang is a relatively new theory. People still thought an Ether permeated all space, and that our Solar System might harbour the only planets in the universe. Exoplanets were only discovered in 1995. We've since discovered thousands.
Even as late as the 60s, people thought there was vegetation on Mars (my Dad actually has an old knowledge/astronomy book with Patrick Moore actually saying this). We didn't know until the late 50s whether anything living was physically capable of surviving in space. Now astronauts regularly tweet and post exercise videos from the ISS, and it's so routine that it barely gets any press. We didn't even have heavier than air flight until the 20th Century.
Great strides (and small) ones will continue to be made. Edifices will crumble, and new ones will be built. Science is one of the purest expressions of the human spirit, can bring out the best in people, and as we've seen recently with the Covid vaccines, can royally save our bacon when our backs are against the wall. Long may it continue.
The Standard Model and String Theory came later. Fission and Fusion were also discovered. Cosmology in particular advanced massively in the 20th Century. The "Steady State" theory of the universe was dominant before, the Big Bang is a relatively new theory. People still thought an Ether permeated all space, and that our Solar System might harbour the only planets in the universe. Exoplanets were only discovered in 1995. We've since discovered thousands.
Even as late as the 60s, people thought there was vegetation on Mars (my Dad actually has an old knowledge/astronomy book with Patrick Moore actually saying this). We didn't know until the late 50s whether anything living was physically capable of surviving in space. Now astronauts regularly tweet and post exercise videos from the ISS, and it's so routine that it barely gets any press. We didn't even have heavier than air flight until the 20th Century.
Great strides (and small) ones will continue to be made. Edifices will crumble, and new ones will be built. Science is one of the purest expressions of the human spirit, can bring out the best in people, and as we've seen recently with the Covid vaccines, can royally save our bacon when our backs are against the wall. Long may it continue.
Kawasicki said:
Don‘t be disappointed. It’s difficult, it’s a struggle. With some luck and a lot of time we’ll figure it out.
I expect that with enough time we will figure it out. But if it doesn’t happen soon I won’t be around to see the answer. The point of the OP is that when I was young I assumed it would happen within my lifetime yet that is no longer looking very certain. Esceptico said:
Kawasicki said:
Don‘t be disappointed. It’s difficult, it’s a struggle. With some luck and a lot of time we’ll figure it out.
I expect that with enough time we will figure it out. But if it doesn’t happen soon I won’t be around to see the answer. The point of the OP is that when I was young I assumed it would happen within my lifetime yet that is no longer looking very certain. I’d be impressed if scientists and engineers got fusion reactors working reliably in my lifetime.
FredFlacht said:
Most of my education has come later in life. And I agree with the OP, it’s clear that our understanding of the physical world is very limited. We don’t know what 95% of the cosmos is made up of, for instance. And quantum mechanics, while predictable, is a complete mind fk.
I don’t see that there’s any issue with quantum mechanics being counterintuitive. The Universe, it turns out, is probabilistic on small scales, and deterministic on larger ones. It just seems strange because of the scale that we evolved on.k.Gassing Station | Science! | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff