Why are Sunrise and Sunset Out of Step?

Why are Sunrise and Sunset Out of Step?

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The Mad Monk

Original Poster:

10,612 posts

124 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
Why aren't the latest sunrise and the earliest sunset on the same day?

Why is the shortest day December 21st?

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/london

Puggit

48,807 posts

255 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
Something to do with the fact the Earth' s spinning axis is not 90 degrees from the solar plane, but is 23.5 degrees out plus it wobbles around that axis and doesn't stay at 23.5 degrees.

Long time since I did astronomy at uni wink

DanielSan

19,172 posts

174 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
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I blame immigration, or house prices maybe.

northwest monkey

6,370 posts

196 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
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Depending on where in the country you are, it's the fault of Maggie Thatcher or Brexit.

paua

6,340 posts

150 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
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Shortest day is 6 months before that. smile

Eric Mc

122,856 posts

272 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
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The Mad Monk said:
Why is the shortest day December 21st?

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/london
Maybe you should have asked this in the Science Forum (less likelihood of nonsense answers).

The earth is not completely upright relative to the sun. It is tilted at an angle of 23.5 degrees to the vertical - probably as a result of a collision with a large planetary body early in its life. It could even be this collision that formed our moon.

Because it is tilted, in it's path around the sun, at one point in the year the northern hemisphere is pointed at the sun and exactly six months later it is pointed away from the sun. The former happens around 21 June - which gives us the longest hours of daylight in the northern hemsiphere and the latter gives us the shortest hours of daylight, which occurs around 21 December.

It is this tilt that gives us the graduated seasons.
And, of course, the longest and shortest days of the year are reversed in the southern hemisphere.

Mars has a similar tilt to earth - although it's not known why - so it experiences broadly similar seasons to earth - only they are twice as long because Mars' year is twice as long.

alorotom

12,141 posts

194 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
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DanielSan said:
I blame immigration, or house prices maybe.
Bankers and PPI claims companies ... oh and Nigerian scammers .., it’s THEIR faults lol

The Mad Monk

Original Poster:

10,612 posts

124 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Maybe you should have asked this in the Science Forum (less likelihood of nonsense answers).

The earth is not completely upright relative to the sun. It is tilted at an angle of 23.5 degrees to the vertical - probably as a result of a collision with a large planetary body early in its life. It could even be this collision that formed our moon.

Because it is tilted, in it's path around the sun, at one point in the year the northern hemisphere is pointed at the sun and exactly six months later it is pointed away from the sun. The former happens around 21 June - which gives us the longest hours of daylight in the northern hemsiphere and the latter gives us the shortest hours of daylight, which occurs around 21 December.

It is this tilt that gives us the graduated seasons.
And, of course, the longest and shortest days of the year are reversed in the southern hemisphere.

Mars has a similar tilt to earth - although it's not known why - so it experiences broadly similar seasons to earth - only they are twice as long because Mars' year is twice as long.
I didn't think of the Science Forum.

Thank you for your response.

Puggit

48,807 posts

255 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
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My reply can be seen, right?

JagerT

455 posts

114 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
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I think you'll find it's due to global warming/climate change,or whatever they're calling it at the moment. spin

GAjon

3,804 posts

220 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
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Puggit said:
My reply can be seen, right?
I think it’s been eclipsed, or is that elipsed?

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

268 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
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The Mad Monk said:
Why aren't the latest sunrise and the earliest sunset on the same day?

Why is the shortest day December 21st?

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/london
Because it isn't exactly 24 hours from sun-as-overhead-as-it-gets one day and the next. So our clock noon is a bit offset from astronomical noon, so even when the days are getting longer sunset can get slighter closer to clock noon because clock noon is running late.

The Mad Monk

Original Poster:

10,612 posts

124 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
Dr Jekyll said:
Because it isn't exactly 24 hours from sun-as-overhead-as-it-gets one day and the next. So our clock noon is a bit offset from astronomical noon, so even when the days are getting longer sunset can get slighter closer to clock noon because clock noon is running late.
Isn't that what Leap Years and extra seconds on occasional years are supposed to correct?

Eric Mc

122,856 posts

272 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
Yes. The earth's movements don't fit precisely into the time intervals man has created - and vise versa. Therefore, corrections have to be inserted every so often in order to get things back on track. The most well known and obvious "correction" is the leap year system.

Other factors cause our artificially set time intervals to go out of sync with the real universe such as the gravitational interactions between the earth, sun and moon and the fact that as well as the earth being tilted, the tilt itself is actually wobbling like a spinning top that is slowing down. That is known as precession.

Shakermaker

11,317 posts

107 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
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The Mad Monk said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Because it isn't exactly 24 hours from sun-as-overhead-as-it-gets one day and the next. So our clock noon is a bit offset from astronomical noon, so even when the days are getting longer sunset can get slighter closer to clock noon because clock noon is running late.
Isn't that what Leap Years and extra seconds on occasional years are supposed to correct?
They correct it in so much as they put us back in sync every 4 years that means that we are back in the same relative position in space and distance from the sun once again, which then changes again over the next 4 years until the next leap year, meaning we are not entirely in sync once again.

crossy67

1,570 posts

186 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
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Ignore all the previous answers.

The earth is flat, the sphere notion is all a lie dreamed up by the cheese eating bureaucrats in Brussels to keep us all dependent on the EU for our needs.

p1stonhead

27,215 posts

174 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
Puggit said:
Something to do with the fact the Earth' s spinning axis is not 90 degrees from the solar plane, but is 23.5 degrees out plus it wobbles around that axis and doesn't stay at 23.5 degrees.

Long time since I did astronomy at uni wink
Enough with any of this Puggit, when the hell is the snow coming!?

glenrobbo

36,563 posts

157 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
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paua said:
Shortest day is 6 months before that. smile
That's a very inverted way of looking at things! biggrin

Shakermaker

11,317 posts

107 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
paua said:
Shortest day is 6 months before that. smile
Shortest day is the last Sunday in March, surely?

Puggit

48,807 posts

255 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
p1stonhead said:
Enough with any of this Puggit, when the hell is the snow coming!?
There is a related answer here - December and early Jan are best times to get Arctic blasts because of the shorter amount of daylight. Daylight heats up the surface, night time is better for snow. Normally the cooler months are Feb/March, which have longer days.

Thurs night into Friday is your answer though.