Stupid question alert - magnets

Stupid question alert - magnets

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audi321

Original Poster:

5,494 posts

220 months

Saturday 26th August 2017
quotequote all
Hi all. Apologies in advance of the stupid question, but my 9 year old has 'discovered' magnets and asked a question I can't really answer so thought I'd come on here and get a decent reply to him!

Basically he's learning about wind turbines and asked why they cannot use magnets to repel and get them to turn? He also found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiAhiu6UqXQ to prove his point, just on a much bigger scale.

Help......I can't come up with a sensible argument other than magnets lose their power quickly! Which I know is probably a daft answer to give him.

alock

4,288 posts

218 months

Saturday 26th August 2017
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Ask why the demo only lasts a few seconds? Everytime the fan spins it is due to him moving the other magnet towards the fan.

If it worked he would show his demo running hands-free for hours.

audi321

Original Poster:

5,494 posts

220 months

Saturday 26th August 2017
quotequote all
Ok I get that. But whats the reason? I need something to tell him to get him off my back lol.

grumbledoak

31,847 posts

240 months

Saturday 26th August 2017
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The first three minutes of this may help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4tO0kBOzqk

alock

4,288 posts

218 months

Saturday 26th August 2017
quotequote all
For a magnetic to repel, it must first get into the magnetic field that causes it to repel. This takes energy. You cannot move a magnet into a repeling field without using energy. The energy it takes to get into the field is the most you will ever get back out of the system.

His hand adds the additional energy at the start to get it moving. He is just pushing the fan indirectly via a magnetic force. When his hand stops moving, the magnets might as well not be there. The fan just slows down based on the quality of the bearings.

4x4Tyke

6,506 posts

139 months

Saturday 26th August 2017
quotequote all
audi321 said:
Hi all. Apologies in advance of the stupid question, but my 9 year old has 'discovered' magnets and asked a question I can't really answer so thought I'd come on here and get a decent reply to him!

Basically he's learning about wind turbines and asked why they cannot use magnets to repel and get them to turn? He also found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiAhiu6UqXQ to prove his point, just on a much bigger scale.

Help......I can't come up with a sensible argument other than magnets lose their power quickly! Which I know is probably a daft answer to give him.
That video is essentially a 'perpetual motion machine', there are lots of these, they are all fakes because you cannot beat physics. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4tO0kBOzqk

anonymous-user

61 months

Friday 16th March 2018
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4x4Tyke said:
Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another.
I too was taught that at school.

But also I thought mass could be converted to energy? As in E=mc^2 i.e. energy can be created from mass.

What am I missing here?

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

261 months

Friday 16th March 2018
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MikeStroud said:
4x4Tyke said:
Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another.
I too was taught that at school.

But also I thought mass could be converted to energy? As in E=mc^2 i.e. energy can be created from mass.

What am I missing here?
Mass is just solid energy. Nothing is created just changed.

We do have entropy though so some forms of energy are less useful than others and it all tends downwards towards heat.

So explain to the kid you cant get energy out that isnt already in, and you never get out 100% because you always loose some to heat etc.

Monty Python

4,813 posts

204 months

Monday 19th March 2018
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You've really answered your own question - permanent magnets lose their magnetism when exposed to other magnetic fields. The "fan generator" in the video will work until the magnets become too weak to overcome the friction present in the bearings and air resistance (it would be more efficient if the blades were flat). This is the reason why electromagnets are used is applications where a constant magnetic field is required.


anonymous-user

61 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
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RobDickinson said:
Mass is just solid energy.
Well that has blown my tiny mind.

I always find E=mc^2 a very beautiful equation, it's fascinating that the speed of light has anything whatsoever to do with the relationship between E and m.