The danger of liquid oxygen
Discussion
During the early morning of March 25th 1970, a propellants crew began the chill-down of the liquid Oxygen (LOX) pumping system at Launch Complex 39A to begin loading LOX in Apollo 13’s Saturn V first stage for the final ‘wet’ portion of the Countdown Demonstration Test. During the 40-minute precooling process, over 10,000 gallons of LOX were emptied into the dump reservoir. Ocean breezes would normally dissipate the Oxygen fog, but on the morning of the 25th, there was no breeze and there was a temperature inversion. The Oxygen fog built up in the drainage ditch and Oxygen began overflowing onto the banks of an adjacent road. By 6:00 AM close-out crews and safety personnel were clear of the LOX storage area and security officers were ensuring personnel were clear of the area for the hazardous propellant loading process. As the patrolmen had stopped at a perimeter fence, two of the patrol cars spontaneously combusted and the third ignited when the car was started. The patrolmen quickly abandoned their cars and took cover. The fire department arrived within five minutes, but took no action until the Oxygen fog dissipated and the fire was under control by 7:00 AM. Of the investigation that followed, the practice of dumping large quantities of propellant was criticized, entry/exit of the launch complex were studied and KSC safety training was modified. The LOX drainage lines were further extended away from the pad to a marshy area. Engine heat and grease/oil combustibles mixed with Oxygen vapors contributed to two patrol cars spontaneously combusting and the third patrol car was destroyed when the driver turned the ignition.
Simpo Two said:
In terms of oxygen atoms per unit volume, frozen ozone is worse.
I seem to recall a story from my chemistry master about someone who hit frozen ozone with a hammer and it took his hand off.
Sounds a bit like the problem some of the 1950s rocket planes had with liquid oxygen soaking into leather gaskets in the fuel pipes.I seem to recall a story from my chemistry master about someone who hit frozen ozone with a hammer and it took his hand off.
Eric Mc said:
Simpo Two said:
In terms of oxygen atoms per unit volume, frozen ozone is worse.
I seem to recall a story from my chemistry master about someone who hit frozen ozone with a hammer and it took his hand off.
Sounds a bit like the problem some of the 1950s rocket planes had with liquid oxygen soaking into leather gaskets in the fuel pipes.I seem to recall a story from my chemistry master about someone who hit frozen ozone with a hammer and it took his hand off.
Eric Mc said:
I think they lost three aircraft before they understood what was causing the explosions.
Yes - though they should have known that anything organic in contact with Lox is apt to combust, so leather impregnated with wax was a definite no-no ! IIRC the manufacturers of the material even specifically warned against its use in the presence of pure oxygen, never mind liquid.I used to live in a street where a big liquid oxygen company had a factory. It transferred liquid oxygen into canisters, great thick things, too heavy to carry. They were loaded onto lorries. The loaders were a casual lot and the clanging of the cylinders hitting one-another, and occasionally falling to the ground, was the audio backdrop to my early youth.
A teacher who lived in the street complained on grounds of safety and he was told that these chaps knew what they were doing as they were professionals. However, if you looked into the lorry cabs, Thames Trader and similar, you would find bits of cast iron and bricks that they would put on the accelerator when on a run. An early form of cruise control.
One night there was an explosion. It broke my bedroom window although I slept through it. It would appear that one of the chaps who knew what he was doing took out himself, and a number of his colleagues.
The clanging stopped.
A teacher who lived in the street complained on grounds of safety and he was told that these chaps knew what they were doing as they were professionals. However, if you looked into the lorry cabs, Thames Trader and similar, you would find bits of cast iron and bricks that they would put on the accelerator when on a run. An early form of cruise control.
One night there was an explosion. It broke my bedroom window although I slept through it. It would appear that one of the chaps who knew what he was doing took out himself, and a number of his colleagues.
The clanging stopped.
My organic chemistry lecturer used to run a "liquid air" lecture for 6th formers & 1st year students. Ended it with setting light to cotton wool doused in Liquid oxygen. Made quite a bang followed by a mini "snow" storm :-).
When I was in my 3rd year, he brought the lecture as an after dinner speech to a student meal....and set light to the table cloth along the way. Was hilarious at the time.....these days, Elf & Safety would put a stop to that !!
When I was in my 3rd year, he brought the lecture as an after dinner speech to a student meal....and set light to the table cloth along the way. Was hilarious at the time.....these days, Elf & Safety would put a stop to that !!
Steve Campbell said:
these days, Elf & Safety would put a stop to that !!
It's interesting to think how many inventions would never have happened if Elf'n'Safety (mostly EU-inspired I believe) had been in place since 1700. I expect we'd still be living on turnips and travelling by horseback.Simpo Two said:
Steve Campbell said:
these days, Elf & Safety would put a stop to that !!
It's interesting to think how many inventions would never have happened if Elf'n'Safety (mostly EU-inspired I believe) had been in place since 1700. I expect we'd still be living on turnips and travelling by horseback.I had a cousin who contracted asbestosis. Just before he died he swelled due to water retention. In effect he chocked to death.
A colleague lost a son on a dreadfully organised canoeing trip.
I suffer from a vitamin B12 deficiency. So does my brother, who has it much worse. Mine is controlled by diet, his by injections every month/six weeks. This was triggered by lead in the atmosphere of various print shops we both worked in. One of my jobs was to put old 'cases', where individual bits of type were placed, into a machine that used to shake the case and the dust - which contained high levels of a lead/antimony alloy - would be vented into the room.
If H&S had been in place since the 1700s there would be quite a few people who would have lived longer.
The firms I worked for didn't give a damn, but then the ones who had the power to protect the staff weren't the ones affected. Good on the EU if, as you seem to suggest, it was it which brought in H&S regulations.
Derek Smith said:
The firms I worked for didn't give a damn, but then the ones who had the power to protect the staff weren't the ones affected. Good on the EU if, as you seem to suggest, it was it which brought in H&S regulations.
There is, I suggest, a sensible compromise between 'no safety at all' and some of the nonsense our economy has to bear today. The EU makes rules; that is what it's for. It is very very good at making rules, 19,000 extra ones for us I believe. You can be a human, or a termite.Derek Smith said:
Simpo Two said:
Steve Campbell said:
these days, Elf & Safety would put a stop to that !!
It's interesting to think how many inventions would never have happened if Elf'n'Safety (mostly EU-inspired I believe) had been in place since 1700. I expect we'd still be living on turnips and travelling by horseback.I had a cousin who contracted asbestosis. Just before he died he swelled due to water retention. In effect he chocked to death.
A colleague lost a son on a dreadfully organised canoeing trip.
I suffer from a vitamin B12 deficiency. So does my brother, who has it much worse. Mine is controlled by diet, his by injections every month/six weeks. This was triggered by lead in the atmosphere of various print shops we both worked in. One of my jobs was to put old 'cases', where individual bits of type were placed, into a machine that used to shake the case and the dust - which contained high levels of a lead/antimony alloy - would be vented into the room.
If H&S had been in place since the 1700s there would be quite a few people who would have lived longer.
The firms I worked for didn't give a damn, but then the ones who had the power to protect the staff weren't the ones affected. Good on the EU if, as you seem to suggest, it was it which brought in H&S regulations.
Derek Smith said:
I used to live in a street where a big liquid oxygen company had a factory. It transferred liquid oxygen into canisters, great thick things, too heavy to carry. They were loaded onto lorries. The loaders were a casual lot and the clanging of the cylinders hitting one-another, and occasionally falling to the ground, was the audio backdrop to my early youth.
A teacher who lived in the street complained on grounds of safety and he was told that these chaps knew what they were doing as they were professionals. However, if you looked into the lorry cabs, Thames Trader and similar, you would find bits of cast iron and bricks that they would put on the accelerator when on a run. An early form of cruise control.
One night there was an explosion. It broke my bedroom window although I slept through it. It would appear that one of the chaps who knew what he was doing took out himself, and a number of his colleagues.
The clanging stopped.
BOC Crawley by any chance? I've worked for three of the major industrial gas companies as technical engineer/manager/boss.A teacher who lived in the street complained on grounds of safety and he was told that these chaps knew what they were doing as they were professionals. However, if you looked into the lorry cabs, Thames Trader and similar, you would find bits of cast iron and bricks that they would put on the accelerator when on a run. An early form of cruise control.
One night there was an explosion. It broke my bedroom window although I slept through it. It would appear that one of the chaps who knew what he was doing took out himself, and a number of his colleagues.
The clanging stopped.
The bigger production plants today produce up to 3000 metric tonnes/day of Oxygen. Not all of it is liquid, as this would take a lot of energy to convert gas into liquid.
The risks of Oxygen is that it supports combustion and materials that don't normally combust, burn fiercely in elevated Oxygen atmospheres. I've investigated fires, where large sections of stainless steel has vaporised..
If Oxygen venting has occurred and you have been exposed to high concentrations (>25%) you must walk around for a while so that you clothing saturated in Oxygen does not ignite when re-entering control rooms etc, there have been many cases where personnel have suffered burns because of this scenario.
Hydrocarbons tend to be your worst enemy, I've spoken to many hospitals where they have laid down bitumen/tarmac in the venting area of liquid Oxygen vessels. We've refused to deliver until they put down steel plates or replace with concrete.
So overall, Oxygen is interesting, but not to be messing with!!!
Lotus Notes said:
BOC Crawley by any chance? I've worked for three of the major industrial gas companies as technical engineer/manager/boss.
The bigger production plants today produce up to 3000 metric tonnes/day of Oxygen. Not all of it is liquid, as this would take a lot of energy to convert gas into liquid.
The risks of Oxygen is that it supports combustion and materials that don't normally combust, burn fiercely in elevated Oxygen atmospheres. I've investigated fires, where large sections of stainless steel has vaporised..
If Oxygen venting has occurred and you have been exposed to high concentrations (>25%) you must walk around for a while so that you clothing saturated in Oxygen does not ignite when re-entering control rooms etc, there have been many cases where personnel have suffered burns because of this scenario.
Hydrocarbons tend to be your worst enemy, I've spoken to many hospitals where they have laid down bitumen/tarmac in the venting area of liquid Oxygen vessels. We've refused to deliver until they put down steel plates or replace with concrete.
So overall, Oxygen is interesting, but not to be messing with!!!
The venting was into a storage room, a big one. I remember the report of the inquest in the press saying that it could have been ignited by 'anything', even the footwear of one of those killed, even the ice that would have formed around the leak could have generated a spark. Not sure of the physics of that. A couple of the deceased were locals (Greenwich) and I knew one of the girls who lost their father. He wasn't a specialist, just a more or less odd job man who made minor repairs. He was outside the building but, in effect, got hit by shrapnel. He was evidently shredded.The bigger production plants today produce up to 3000 metric tonnes/day of Oxygen. Not all of it is liquid, as this would take a lot of energy to convert gas into liquid.
The risks of Oxygen is that it supports combustion and materials that don't normally combust, burn fiercely in elevated Oxygen atmospheres. I've investigated fires, where large sections of stainless steel has vaporised..
If Oxygen venting has occurred and you have been exposed to high concentrations (>25%) you must walk around for a while so that you clothing saturated in Oxygen does not ignite when re-entering control rooms etc, there have been many cases where personnel have suffered burns because of this scenario.
Hydrocarbons tend to be your worst enemy, I've spoken to many hospitals where they have laid down bitumen/tarmac in the venting area of liquid Oxygen vessels. We've refused to deliver until they put down steel plates or replace with concrete.
So overall, Oxygen is interesting, but not to be messing with!!!
It was all a few years ago now. I was about 12 I think. It was big news. My abiding memory was our landlord refusing to repair the broken windows as he wanted the money first. My father did ours.
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