Universe is not real and is instead a giant simulation
Discussion
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160901-we-might-l...
i think we live in one most likely created by ourselves millennia or even mega-anna into the future. Computers seem to answer at lot of potential questions.
i think we live in one most likely created by ourselves millennia or even mega-anna into the future. Computers seem to answer at lot of potential questions.
SilverSixer said:
The article misses one obvious possibility, and it's the one I'd be most inclined to believe. That we are the first species ever to reach this level of civilisation/technology in the Universe.
That seems much more plausible than the three options as outlined.
He does mention the "destroy themselves before they get to this point".That seems much more plausible than the three options as outlined.
It's really only luck that the planet has not been nuked several times over - imagine if Trump was in power during the Cuban missile crisis for example. Or had Heisenberg not wandered off trying to use heavy water as a moderator, leading to WWII ending in nuclear exchanges.
We might yet destroy the planet just through regular economic activity (or by imploding in a celebrity-driven culture which values nothing other than social media connectivity).
So we don't even have to be the first, there could have been plenty of civilisations before us which fell apart before starting any simulations.
Flooble said:
So we don't even have to be the first, there could have been plenty of civilisations before us which fell apart before starting any simulations.
Then they wouldn't have been the first to reach the level necessary to create simulations, we could be though. Others could, of course, have reached the level, created simulations and then died out, and their simulations with them. We could perhaps be the only ones with the potential to create the capability at this moment in time.Another thought is, if we are in a simulated universe, then that must exist within a real universe containing real beings which have created our simulation, mustn't it? So we'd still exist in a real universe in one sense, even though we couldn't sense it necessarily.
SilverSixer said:
Then they wouldn't have been the first to reach the level necessary to create simulations, we could be though. Others could, of course, have reached the level, created simulations and then died out, and their simulations with them. We could perhaps be the only ones with the potential to create the capability at this moment in time.
Another thought is, if we are in a simulated universe, then that must exist within a real universe containing real beings which have created our simulation, mustn't it? So we'd still exist in a real universe in one sense, even though we couldn't sense it necessarily.
We could of course be a simulation within a simulation, which doesn't affect the principle but does make things weirder.Another thought is, if we are in a simulated universe, then that must exist within a real universe containing real beings which have created our simulation, mustn't it? So we'd still exist in a real universe in one sense, even though we couldn't sense it necessarily.
Dr Jekyll said:
SilverSixer said:
Then they wouldn't have been the first to reach the level necessary to create simulations, we could be though. Others could, of course, have reached the level, created simulations and then died out, and their simulations with them. We could perhaps be the only ones with the potential to create the capability at this moment in time.
Another thought is, if we are in a simulated universe, then that must exist within a real universe containing real beings which have created our simulation, mustn't it? So we'd still exist in a real universe in one sense, even though we couldn't sense it necessarily.
We could of course be a simulation within a simulation, which doesn't affect the principle but does make things weirder.Another thought is, if we are in a simulated universe, then that must exist within a real universe containing real beings which have created our simulation, mustn't it? So we'd still exist in a real universe in one sense, even though we couldn't sense it necessarily.
There would have to be 'reality' somewhere though, right, i.e. the place between the mirrors where I was standing?
Pachydermus said:
Not exactly science is it?
No it's not, it's philosophy and I'm not sure if I like idea of God being a spotty nerd programmer from the future. I wonder if he gets plagued by Adobe Reader updates too.Regardless of the what the universe may be, it's real to us and those who are bound by its laws.
Laplace said:
No it's not, it's philosophy and I'm not sure if I like idea of God being a spotty nerd programmer from the future. I wonder if he gets plagued by Adobe Reader updates too.
Regardless of the what the universe may be, it's real to us and those who are bound by its laws.
But working out whether it's a simulation might help us determine what those laws are.Regardless of the what the universe may be, it's real to us and those who are bound by its laws.
If a physicist is having trouble pinning down exactly what his particle is doing, and trying to determine whether it's a limitation of his equipment or that the particle is inherently fuzzy, a possibility that he's looking at a simulation of a particle with limited resolution is a relevant consideration.
Imagine the project meeting.
Oh bugger, the Earthlings are going to send a probe round the back of the moon, they'll notice there aren't any mountains or craters.
Can't we add some?
We don't have the processing power, why do you think we made sure the moon was tidally locked?
Suppose we reduce the resolution of the whole simulation?
Well, that could free up enough capacity for a bit more lunar detail, but it won't be as good as the side we've already got. Also we won't have the resolution to represent sub atomic particles properly, the entire quantum world is going to go completely to s
t.A few years later.
Now they are looking for more planets! What are we going to do?
No problem, I've freed up capacity by downgrading the US presidential subroutine, anyone who can accept particles being in two places at once will have no trouble believing in Donald Trump.
SilverSixer said:
The article misses one obvious possibility, and it's the one I'd be most inclined to believe. That we are the first species ever to reach this level of civilisation/technology in the Universe.
That seems much more plausible than the three options as outlined.
Really? I know a lot of very clever people believe this, but..... really??That seems much more plausible than the three options as outlined.
All the stars that you can see in the sky on the clearest night, are about 0.000000008% of the stars in the Milky Way.
I think the current estimate is that there are about 10,000,000,000 Earth-like planets orbiting Sun-like stars in the Milky Way.
And the Milky Way is one of about 200,000,000,000 galaxies, possibly a lot more.
Obviously these are all estimates based on estimates based on estimates, and could be wildly inaccurate. But that's all we have... And it would suggest there are approximately 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Earth-like planets orbiting Sun-like stars in the universe (or... in one of the universes??).
Look at the technological advances in the last 100 years. They're... staggering!
Will humans ever be able to create a simulation of a universe?
If you took someone from the early 1800s and demonstrated a VR headset with some kind of space simulator with clever AI elements - they would be convinced that we already have created a simulated universe.
If we don't kill ourselves in the next 200 years, I bet 2200's people could similarly convince us that they have created a simulated universe.
And that's only 200 years... 0.1% of the time that humans have existed. What if we survive another 200,000 years (only 0.004% of the time the Earth has existed)... It's beyond comprehension what could be possible in that amount of time.
And many of those 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Earth-like planets are a lot older than Earth. They should have already passed the stages we have passed, gone on for another 200,000 years... Or another billion years.
And if any civilisation gains the ability to create a simulated universe, they eventually would. And chances are, they would run a sped up version so they didn't have to wait a few billion years for something interesting to happen.
And how many of those simulations will reach the stage where they run their own simulations?
Etc.
tl;dr. I can't accept that we're lucky enough to be the first to reach this stage, or that we're lucky enough to be at the top of the simulation-within-simulation tree. I also don't believe that our "simulators" even know of our existence - after all we're only one of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in this universe.
Edited by R E S T E C P on Thursday 8th September 14:08
R E S T E C P said:
SilverSixer said:
The article misses one obvious possibility, and it's the one I'd be most inclined to believe. That we are the first species ever to reach this level of civilisation/technology in the Universe.
That seems much more plausible than the three options as outlined.
Really? I know a lot of very clever people believe this, but..... really??That seems much more plausible than the three options as outlined.
All the stars that you can see in the sky on the clearest night, are about 0.000000008% of the stars in the Milky Way.
I think the current estimate is that there are about 10,000,000,000 Earth-like planets orbiting Sun-like stars in the Milky Way.
And the Milky Way is one of about 200,000,000,000 galaxies, possibly a lot more.
Obviously these are all estimates based on estimates based on estimates, and could be wildly inaccurate. But that's all we have... And it would suggest there are approximately 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Earth-like planets orbiting Sun-like stars in the universe (or... in one of the universes??).
Look at the technological advances in the last 100 years. They're... staggering!
Will humans ever be able to create a simulation of a universe?
If you took someone from the early 1800s and demonstrated a VR headset with some kind of space simulator with clever AI elements - they would be convinced that we already have created a simulated universe.
If we don't kill ourselves in the next 200 years, I bet 2200's people could similarly convince us that they have created a simulated universe.
And that's only 200 years... 0.1% of the time that humans have existed. What if we survive another 200,000 years (only 0.004% of the time the Earth has existed)... It's beyond comprehension what could be possible in that amount of time.
And many of those 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Earth-like planets are a lot older than Earth. They should have already passed the stages we have passed, gone on for another 200,000 years... Or another billion years.
And if any civilisation gains the ability to create a simulated universe, they eventually would. And chances are, they would run a sped up version so they didn't have to wait a few billion years for something interesting to happen.
And how many of those simulations will reach the stage where they run their own simulations?
Etc.
tl;dr. I can't accept that we're lucky enough to be the first to reach this stage, or that we're lucky enough to be at the top of the simulation-within-simulation tree. I also don't believe that our "simulators" even know of our existence - after all we're only one of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in this universe.
Edited by R E S T E C P on Thursday 8th September 14:08
An alternative TL;DR:- "We know nothing".
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