Could Cryonics Ever Work?
Discussion
I just got e-mailed a link to this piece from Waitbutwhy (I'm on their e-mail dist-list)
It's a very long piece, but really interesting I think. It kind of goes side-by-side with the AI piece they did, in that if technology improves as expected, then the question is a matter of 'if' not 'when'.
It's actually made me think about signing up to be honest, just imagine what kind of adventure could come of it? Certainly a better adventure than just getting cooked at the Crem! LOL
Anyway, as I said, it's very long (not as long as the AI one though, this is done in one post at least), but fascinating all the same.
http://waitbutwhy.com/2016/03/cryonics.html?utm_so...
It's a very long piece, but really interesting I think. It kind of goes side-by-side with the AI piece they did, in that if technology improves as expected, then the question is a matter of 'if' not 'when'.
It's actually made me think about signing up to be honest, just imagine what kind of adventure could come of it? Certainly a better adventure than just getting cooked at the Crem! LOL
Anyway, as I said, it's very long (not as long as the AI one though, this is done in one post at least), but fascinating all the same.
http://waitbutwhy.com/2016/03/cryonics.html?utm_so...
Russian Rocket said:
ie Information death occurs to the left of the "legal death" and in many cases to the left of "clinical death"
Interesting thought, what makes you think that? I understand how we think it could happen before Legal Death, but before Clinical Death, surely only if the person has altziemers [sp], or has died through head trauma? Genuine question.maxxy5 said:
Apart from the science there's the small problem of 'history' getting in the way when your secure freezer goes out of business and they leave you there to thaw out like a chicken.
Yep, very true, I think he touches on that possibility in the post, but yes, it is a major factor to any kind of success with this sort of thing.
AshVX220 said:
maxxy5 said:
Apart from the science there's the small problem of 'history' getting in the way when your secure freezer goes out of business and they leave you there to thaw out like a chicken.
Yep, very true, I think he touches on that possibility in the post, but yes, it is a major factor to any kind of success with this sort of thing.Who needs Cryonics when you can have a Soul Catcher
http://www.rense.com/political/weapons/soul.htm
The End of Death:
'Soul Catcher' Computer Chip Due...
By Robert Uhlig
The Electronic Telegraph (England)
(From CNI News)
A computer chip implanted behind the eye that could record a person's every lifetime thought and sensation is to be developed by British scientists.
"This is the end of death," said Dr. Chris Winter, of British Telecom's artificial life team. He predicted that within three decades it would be possible to relive other people's lives by playing back their experiences on a computer. "By combining this information with a record of the person's genes, we could recreate a person physically, emotionally and spiritually."
Dr. Winter's team of eight scientists at BT's Martlesham Heath Laboratories near Ipswich calls the chip the 'Soul Catcher.' It would be possible to imbue a new-born baby with a lifetime's experiences by giving him or her the Soul Catcher chip of a dead person, Dr. Winter said. The proposal to digitize existence is based on a solid calculation of how much data the brain copes with over a lifetime.
Ian Pearson , BT's official futurologist, has measured the flow of impulses from the optical nerve and nerves in the skin, tongue, ear, and nose. Over an eighty year life, we process 10 terrabytes of data, equivalent to the storage capacity of 7,142,857,142,860,000 floppy disks.
Dr. Pearson said, "If current trends in the miniaturization of computer memory continues at the rate of the past 20 years - a factor of 100 every decade - today's 8-megabyte memory chip norm will be able to store 10 terrabytes in 30 years."
British Telecom would not divulge how much money it is investing in the project, but Dr. Winter said it was taking 'Soul Catcher 2025' very seriously. He admitted that there were profound ethical considerations, but emphasized that BT was embarking on this line of research to enable it to remain at the forefront of communications technology.
"An implanted chip would be like an aircraft's black box and would enhance communications beyond current concepts," he said. "For example, police would be able to use it to relive an attack, rape, or murder from the victim's viewpoint to help catch the criminal."
Other applications would be less useful but more frightening. "I could even play back the smells, sounds, and sights of my holiday to my friends," Dr. Winter said.
http://www.rense.com/political/weapons/soul.htm
The End of Death:
'Soul Catcher' Computer Chip Due...
By Robert Uhlig
The Electronic Telegraph (England)
(From CNI News)
A computer chip implanted behind the eye that could record a person's every lifetime thought and sensation is to be developed by British scientists.
"This is the end of death," said Dr. Chris Winter, of British Telecom's artificial life team. He predicted that within three decades it would be possible to relive other people's lives by playing back their experiences on a computer. "By combining this information with a record of the person's genes, we could recreate a person physically, emotionally and spiritually."
Dr. Winter's team of eight scientists at BT's Martlesham Heath Laboratories near Ipswich calls the chip the 'Soul Catcher.' It would be possible to imbue a new-born baby with a lifetime's experiences by giving him or her the Soul Catcher chip of a dead person, Dr. Winter said. The proposal to digitize existence is based on a solid calculation of how much data the brain copes with over a lifetime.
Ian Pearson , BT's official futurologist, has measured the flow of impulses from the optical nerve and nerves in the skin, tongue, ear, and nose. Over an eighty year life, we process 10 terrabytes of data, equivalent to the storage capacity of 7,142,857,142,860,000 floppy disks.
Dr. Pearson said, "If current trends in the miniaturization of computer memory continues at the rate of the past 20 years - a factor of 100 every decade - today's 8-megabyte memory chip norm will be able to store 10 terrabytes in 30 years."
British Telecom would not divulge how much money it is investing in the project, but Dr. Winter said it was taking 'Soul Catcher 2025' very seriously. He admitted that there were profound ethical considerations, but emphasized that BT was embarking on this line of research to enable it to remain at the forefront of communications technology.
"An implanted chip would be like an aircraft's black box and would enhance communications beyond current concepts," he said. "For example, police would be able to use it to relive an attack, rape, or murder from the victim's viewpoint to help catch the criminal."
Other applications would be less useful but more frightening. "I could even play back the smells, sounds, and sights of my holiday to my friends," Dr. Winter said.
Edited by Toaster on Monday 4th April 16:35
I work in stem cell cryopreservation for regenerative medicine - a growing and interesting field.
Preservation of single cells and small (<1Mm^3) biopsy is very possible. It's a different game with larger specimens, however.
To cryopreserve you need a cryoprectant solution (normally DMSO based), but diffusion is limited in bulk tissue - ie the cells in your brain will be irreversibly damaged by ice crystal formation.
We do work on preservation of neural progenitor cells (young brain cells) and even in a petri dish, in ideal preservation conditions, the synapses and neural links get mashed during the freezing process, even of we could do a full 3D scan of a frozen brain to try to peice together the neural network, the information is already damaged. So this isn't going to work.....
I did see some gene therapy at some point for use in mapping neural networks (insert unique Barcode in Dna that's used to create a signalling protein, then look inside surrounding cells to see if you can see the Barcode in certain proteins -> cells must have been connected!
But no. For now I'd save my money on spending on fun things to do in life rather than worrying about after death!!!
YMMV.
Preservation of single cells and small (<1Mm^3) biopsy is very possible. It's a different game with larger specimens, however.
To cryopreserve you need a cryoprectant solution (normally DMSO based), but diffusion is limited in bulk tissue - ie the cells in your brain will be irreversibly damaged by ice crystal formation.
We do work on preservation of neural progenitor cells (young brain cells) and even in a petri dish, in ideal preservation conditions, the synapses and neural links get mashed during the freezing process, even of we could do a full 3D scan of a frozen brain to try to peice together the neural network, the information is already damaged. So this isn't going to work.....
I did see some gene therapy at some point for use in mapping neural networks (insert unique Barcode in Dna that's used to create a signalling protein, then look inside surrounding cells to see if you can see the Barcode in certain proteins -> cells must have been connected!
But no. For now I'd save my money on spending on fun things to do in life rather than worrying about after death!!!
YMMV.
stuthemong said:
I work in stem cell cryopreservation for regenerative medicine - a growing and interesting field.
Preservation of single cells and small (<1Mm^3) biopsy is very possible. It's a different game with larger specimens, however.
To cryopreserve you need a cryoprectant solution (normally DMSO based), but diffusion is limited in bulk tissue - ie the cells in your brain will be irreversibly damaged by ice crystal formation.
We do work on preservation of neural progenitor cells (young brain cells) and even in a petri dish, in ideal preservation conditions, the synapses and neural links get mashed during the freezing process, even of we could do a full 3D scan of a frozen brain to try to peice together the neural network, the information is already damaged. So this isn't going to work.....
I did see some gene therapy at some point for use in mapping neural networks (insert unique Barcode in Dna that's used to create a signalling protein, then look inside surrounding cells to see if you can see the Barcode in certain proteins -> cells must have been connected!
But no. For now I'd save my money on spending on fun things to do in life rather than worrying about after death!!!
YMMV.
So, the processes that Alcor (for example) use to vitrify you would still result in ice crystals forming? Do you see the technology improving over time to make it possible, or do you think it's something that is un-likely to ever be possible? Also, did you read the full post I linked to? Just wondering.Preservation of single cells and small (<1Mm^3) biopsy is very possible. It's a different game with larger specimens, however.
To cryopreserve you need a cryoprectant solution (normally DMSO based), but diffusion is limited in bulk tissue - ie the cells in your brain will be irreversibly damaged by ice crystal formation.
We do work on preservation of neural progenitor cells (young brain cells) and even in a petri dish, in ideal preservation conditions, the synapses and neural links get mashed during the freezing process, even of we could do a full 3D scan of a frozen brain to try to peice together the neural network, the information is already damaged. So this isn't going to work.....
I did see some gene therapy at some point for use in mapping neural networks (insert unique Barcode in Dna that's used to create a signalling protein, then look inside surrounding cells to see if you can see the Barcode in certain proteins -> cells must have been connected!
But no. For now I'd save my money on spending on fun things to do in life rather than worrying about after death!!!
YMMV.
The problem is the speed of freezing, if we could develop some method that would freeze everything pretty much instantly (and thaw the same) it may be feasible.
If you can freeze fast enough the water doesn't have time to expand as it forms the ice crystals, which is the destructive part of the process.
If you can freeze fast enough the water doesn't have time to expand as it forms the ice crystals, which is the destructive part of the process.
It's all learning as technology advances I guess. There was a link from the piece I posted about a lab that had successfully vitrified a rabbit brain and thawed it out in pretty good condition. I imagine by the time I snuff it (hopefully not for at least another 25-30 years) the tech could have advanced further, enough for it to work though? Who knows.
AW111 said:
Various people have been hyping cryogenics for at least 40 years from my personal observations.
Has anyone yet managed to freeze and thaw even the smallest mammal?
Nematodes, yes.Has anyone yet managed to freeze and thaw even the smallest mammal?
AW111 said:
If so, were there any signs of it retaining learned knowledge?
The source I read said yes, but how can you tell? Nematodes aren't noted for their ability to memorise the works of Shakespeare.As I get older, my eyesight gets worse, my hearing isn't what it used to be, my back is a bit dicky, etc., etc.
Logically, I should have been frozen at 25 - by the time I snuff it, mist of my bits will have reached their use-by date.
I am not a classic that would be painstakingly restored by some future enthusiast, more a well-worn everyday hack, needing a full restoration.
I think I'll pass on the idea
Logically, I should have been frozen at 25 - by the time I snuff it, mist of my bits will have reached their use-by date.
I am not a classic that would be painstakingly restored by some future enthusiast, more a well-worn everyday hack, needing a full restoration.
I think I'll pass on the idea
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