Gravity unaffected by time?

Gravity unaffected by time?

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nicklambo

Original Poster:

74 posts

171 months

Saturday 20th February 2016
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So my conjecture that information was shared from a black hole through gravity waves and it occurred to me this morning that that information is not bound by time in the way everything else is as the gravity waves will move in relation to the mass creating them but pass through the time distortion that they have created (i.e...near a black hole)...

Einion Yrth

19,575 posts

251 months

Sunday 21st February 2016
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anonymous said:
[redacted]

nicklambo

Original Poster:

74 posts

171 months

Wednesday 24th February 2016
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Sorry...not connecting it with Interstellar at all....just a couple of thought experiments that pop into my head.....Apologise if it was covered in the movie!

nicklambo

Original Poster:

74 posts

171 months

Sunday 28th February 2016
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Thanks...no worries.....

Here is my idea...There are two travellers...one is going to enter the black hole (1) while the other (2) watches from outside...The first one has a futuristic device that can instantly make a black hole..(don't worry...this is a thought experiment...I just need the traveller to be able to cause a gravity wave)..as traveller 1 enters the black hole he sets of the device which instantly creates a gravity wave that will be felt by traveller 2 however from traveller 2's perspective traveller 1 is still falling into the black hole (time slows down as observed by traveller 2)...therefore gravity itself is moving backwards through time as seen by traveller 2....the gravity waves are felt before they see traveller 1 set of the device..In the real world (but way in the future) it could be a way of sending a probe into a black hole that could communicate to the outside world using gravitational waves....

Hope that makes sense..!

Monty Python

4,813 posts

204 months

Monday 29th February 2016
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Problem here is that you've set up a scenario that may not be exist, so any solution to this is only applicable for this particular (possibly non-existent) case. Unless you can find an example in the real world where this appears to happen then there's no point in trying to come up with a solution.


Pobolycwm

324 posts

187 months

Monday 29th February 2016
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Time dilation in high gravity fields will give the observer the impression that the black hole victim is present on the edge of the black hole, even after he has entered it and crossed the event horizon ( no more data can be transmitted , but image of him entering black hole will persist )

I think the gravity wave emitted by the victim could be seen by the observer and due to time dilation ( the observer sees events in high gravity fields slow down ) register the gravity wave before the victim is last seen by the observer, the victim is long gone though, the gravity wave being the last act performed before crossing the event horizon, the image of the victim is just that, an image. So it would appear that the gravity was seen before being sent, in reality though the gravity wave was sent and the victim disappeared at the same time, a bit like seeing the flash of a gun and hearing it a few seconds later

Derek Smith

46,506 posts

255 months

Tuesday 1st March 2016
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Pobolycwm said:
Time dilation in high gravity fields will give the observer the impression that the black hole victim is present on the edge of the black hole, even after he has entered it and crossed the event horizon ( no more data can be transmitted , but image of him entering black hole will persist )

I think the gravity wave emitted by the victim could be seen by the observer and due to time dilation ( the observer sees events in high gravity fields slow down ) register the gravity wave before the victim is last seen by the observer, the victim is long gone though, the gravity wave being the last act performed before crossing the event horizon, the image of the victim is just that, an image. So it would appear that the gravity was seen before being sent, in reality though the gravity wave was sent and the victim disappeared at the same time, a bit like seeing the flash of a gun and hearing it a few seconds later
When does something falling into the black hole cross the threshold? Going by what I've read, in a popular weekly science magazine aimed at the masses, time dilation will be all but infinite, and the outside observer will see an 'object' stop at the event horizon. Fair enough, to the object (if sentient) there will be no delay but the critical point is that 'they' will see the universe speed up, almost to light speed. To them, the universe will be an image.

In essence, they cross over at the end of the universe, give or take.

I accept that it is probably wrong, but then I accept that quantum theory is probably wrong.


burritoNinja

690 posts

107 months

Sunday 27th March 2016
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Though time is only a measure that is experienced by humanity. Is time even real?

Pobolycwm

324 posts

187 months

Sunday 27th March 2016
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Time is a manifestation of motion, easier to think of it as what happens when time stands still .

ALT F4

5,180 posts

224 months

Tuesday 29th March 2016
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Not sure how it can not be affected by time... gravity is a result of mass which is a result of 'movement'/vibration of sub-atomic particles (mostly). Not to mention the interaction of particles when 'moving' through the higgs field.

If there is movement involved then this surely has to include time.


Zoon

6,850 posts

128 months

Tuesday 29th March 2016
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burritoNinja said:
Though time is only a measure that is experienced by humanity. Is time even real?
I'd agree with this also.

IainT

10,040 posts

245 months

Wednesday 6th April 2016
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Zoon said:
burritoNinja said:
Though time is only a measure that is experienced by humanity. Is time even real?
I'd agree with this also.
Time can be measured by an unattended objective device and even relativistic effects can be calculated and measures. Time is real - it's a measured gap between one thing happening and another. It might be that there is an ultimate 'clock frequency' of the universe - maybe Planck Time, maybe we've not discovered it yet.

We experience something subjective - time flies, time drags which is entirely different and hours, minutes seconds are no more real than any other imagined measure.

Derek Smith

46,506 posts

255 months

Wednesday 6th April 2016
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IainT said:
Time is real - it's a measured gap between one thing happening and another.
But doesn't this 'gap' vary?

Toaster

2,940 posts

200 months

Wednesday 6th April 2016
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Derek Smith said:
IainT said:
Time is real - it's a measured gap between one thing happening and another.
But doesn't this 'gap' vary?
Do you know what time it is:

http://www.documentarytube.com/videos/do-you-know-...