life out there?
Discussion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3359...
I think there must be life out there. Are there not roughly 500 billion galaxies in the universe?
Quite mind blowing when you think about it.
I think there must be life out there. Are there not roughly 500 billion galaxies in the universe?
Quite mind blowing when you think about it.
I think given what we now know about the activity of the planets even at the extremes of the universe it's almost impossible to imagine that there isn't life on other planets.
I'd wager that in the next 20-30 they find at least microbial or simple life forms on other planets or moons in our own solar system.
I'd wager that in the next 20-30 they find at least microbial or simple life forms on other planets or moons in our own solar system.
Rather than must be, I would say probably, but not able to give the odds. I would expect to find life out there, but looking at the only example we have of life, what odds are there for intelligent life, who knows . Of course many say there is no intelligent life on earth anyway.
I expect we will observe the effects of life rather than say hello in person.
I expect we will observe the effects of life rather than say hello in person.
It's simple probability. You don't even need the numbers.
1) Are the conditions required for life unique? - No.
2) Are the conditions required for the development of intelligent life unique? - Almost certainly no.
3) Is the universe mindboggling f
king massive? - Yes.
4) Does this mean intelligent life is likely to exist elsewhere? - Yes.
5) Does this mean we are likely to find other intelligent life? - No, see (3).
1) Are the conditions required for life unique? - No.
2) Are the conditions required for the development of intelligent life unique? - Almost certainly no.
3) Is the universe mindboggling f
king massive? - Yes.4) Does this mean intelligent life is likely to exist elsewhere? - Yes.
5) Does this mean we are likely to find other intelligent life? - No, see (3).
Prof Prolapse said:
It's simple probability. You don't even need the numbers.
1) Are the conditions required for life unique? - Probably not
2) Are the conditions required for the development of intelligent life unique? - Don't know
3) Is the universe mindboggling fking massive? - Yes.
4) Does this mean intelligent life is likely to exist elsewhere? - Possibly.
5) Does this mean we are likely to find other intelligent life? - No, see (3).
Amended slightly1) Are the conditions required for life unique? - Probably not
2) Are the conditions required for the development of intelligent life unique? - Don't know
3) Is the universe mindboggling f
king massive? - Yes.4) Does this mean intelligent life is likely to exist elsewhere? - Possibly.
5) Does this mean we are likely to find other intelligent life? - No, see (3).
Eric Mc said:
Amended slightly
Loathe as I am to pounce, what's your reasoning for taking from likely to possibly likely, Eric? Even if the chance of the right bits at the right time is a million to one, that means that there are a shedload of wiggly things out there. Little green men in flying saucers, granted are unlikely, but its just plain sensible to say "we are not alone", surely?How do you know they are a million to one. They could be ten trillion to one. We just don't know.
Or we could be the first?
Not enough evidence yet.
I am not one for speculation. I prefer to wait for the evidence. When we see a planet with lots of free oxygen in its atmosphere - now THAT might change the odds a bit. And I suspect that we might see that some time very soon.
Or we could be the first?
Not enough evidence yet.
I am not one for speculation. I prefer to wait for the evidence. When we see a planet with lots of free oxygen in its atmosphere - now THAT might change the odds a bit. And I suspect that we might see that some time very soon.
Eric Mc said:
When we see a planet with lots of free oxygen in its atmosphere
Multicellular Life doesn't need lots of free oxygen.http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/...
Eric Mc said:
How do you know they are a million to one. They could be ten trillion to one. We just don't know.
Or we could be the first?
Not enough evidence yet.
I am not one for speculation. I prefer to wait for the evidence. When we see a planet with lots of free oxygen in its atmosphere - now THAT might change the odds a bit. And I suspect that we might see that some time very soon.
We know because projections have been made based on probability. There is sufficient evidence to speculate. We wouldn't enjoy much advancement in the field if we weren't free to speculate based on findings. Or we could be the first?
Not enough evidence yet.
I am not one for speculation. I prefer to wait for the evidence. When we see a planet with lots of free oxygen in its atmosphere - now THAT might change the odds a bit. And I suspect that we might see that some time very soon.
I should hope that an oxygen atmosphere adds to the odds! Given that the oxygen levels we enjoy are largely due to phosynthetic processes, planets aren't known to just prop up with one. It's like saying you won't speculate on life being present until they paint you a sign saying "we are here".
Besides life can flourish and evolve long before we have sufficient oxygen to sustain animals we have on Earth. We are all living proof of that. Even now there's entire ecosystems on this planet which require not only no oxygen, but no light either. Life's a stubborn thing.
I really don't see how it can be doubted given the size of the universe. Even if it was one in a hundred billion it would still happen multiple times!
mudflaps said:
Eric Mc said:
When we see a planet with lots of free oxygen in its atmosphere
Multicellular Life doesn't need lots of free oxygen.http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/...
However, detecting substantial fee oxygen in the atmosphere of an exo-planet would be a strong indication that something akin to photosynthesis was happening there.
We are pretty close to having the instruments that can measure these things on very distant planets orbiting other stars right now so a discovery of this nature could be very close.
Prof Prolapse said:
We know because projections have been made based on probability. There is sufficient evidence to speculate. We wouldn't enjoy much advancement in the field if we weren't free to speculate based on findings.
I should hope that an oxygen atmosphere adds to the odds! Given that the oxygen levels we enjoy are largely due to phosynthetic processes, planets aren't known to just prop up with one. It's like saying you won't speculate on life being present until they paint you a sign saying "we are here".
Besides life can flourish and evolve long before we have sufficient oxygen to sustain animals we have on Earth. We are all living proof of that. Even now there's entire ecosystems on this planet which require not only no oxygen, but no light either. Life's a stubborn thing.
I really don't see how it can be doubted given the size of the universe. Even if it was one in a hundred billion it would still happen multiple times!
Probability is still guessing - with intelligence.I should hope that an oxygen atmosphere adds to the odds! Given that the oxygen levels we enjoy are largely due to phosynthetic processes, planets aren't known to just prop up with one. It's like saying you won't speculate on life being present until they paint you a sign saying "we are here".
Besides life can flourish and evolve long before we have sufficient oxygen to sustain animals we have on Earth. We are all living proof of that. Even now there's entire ecosystems on this planet which require not only no oxygen, but no light either. Life's a stubborn thing.
I really don't see how it can be doubted given the size of the universe. Even if it was one in a hundred billion it would still happen multiple times!
crashley said:
Terminator X said:
Even if there is it may as well not exist given distances involved. For the avoidance of doubt you will not be seeing little green men any time soon 
TX.
Unless they're a lot smarter than us and figure out the time/distance issue.TX.
TX.
"There are several hundred billion other stars in our Galaxy, and more than 100 billion other galaxies in the part of the universe we can see. It would be extraordinary if we were the only thinking beings in all these vast realms." (SETI website)
We don't need to get to them or them to us to prove their existence, some kind of intelligent signal would be enough.
If we agree we can't get to them or them to us, it does seem largely pointless to spend millions/billions on trying to detect them. But then you don't advance humanity with that kind of thinking.
We don't need to get to them or them to us to prove their existence, some kind of intelligent signal would be enough.
If we agree we can't get to them or them to us, it does seem largely pointless to spend millions/billions on trying to detect them. But then you don't advance humanity with that kind of thinking.
Explain why it's not just better quality guessing then.
Don't forget that probability theory was a key tool used in determining the probable behaviour of markets in the world of international banking and debt management - and look what happened there.
That to me shows that just throwing lots of fancy formulae at a problem does not always mean you are going to come up with a better or more accurate answer.
Don't forget that probability theory was a key tool used in determining the probable behaviour of markets in the world of international banking and debt management - and look what happened there.
That to me shows that just throwing lots of fancy formulae at a problem does not always mean you are going to come up with a better or more accurate answer.
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