Telescope for beginner
Discussion
Good evening chaps. As PH is the font of all knowledge, and sound base for advice could I ask a little advice?
Mini wijit's birthday coming up, and he has started t show a lot of interest in the solar system, stars, planets and the like. I got ahim a cheap and cheerful National Geographic telescope a while back, but it is very limited.
We've see the following (Celestron Astromaster 130EQ-MD) on Amazon, and as it has reviews all over which cover all ends of the favourable/ unfavourable spectrum I was hoping some of you may be able to offer guidance?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Celestron-31051-Astromaste...
It is pretty much around the budget we were looking at, ideally we would get an adaptor to fit my Olympus DSLR on too, although this is more of a bonus that a necessity.
Mini wijit's birthday coming up, and he has started t show a lot of interest in the solar system, stars, planets and the like. I got ahim a cheap and cheerful National Geographic telescope a while back, but it is very limited.
We've see the following (Celestron Astromaster 130EQ-MD) on Amazon, and as it has reviews all over which cover all ends of the favourable/ unfavourable spectrum I was hoping some of you may be able to offer guidance?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Celestron-31051-Astromaste...
It is pretty much around the budget we were looking at, ideally we would get an adaptor to fit my Olympus DSLR on too, although this is more of a bonus that a necessity.
The aperture (width of the primary mirror that gathers the light) is the defining feature of any telescope, as this is a telescope's primary purpose: to gather more light than your ~7mm eye's opening can. This one has an aperture of 130mm, which is fine and about the minimum useful aperture for a reflector. With a reflector, the image is reflected off a back mirror back towards the sky and focused onto a secondary diagonal mirror, that reflects the light at 90 degrees to the scope towards your eye; that secondary mirror sits in the light path, so it reduces the light gathering capacity, so this 130mm reflector might be equivalent to an 80-90mm refractor, a telescope with lenses, like you see pirates using in films, or Galileo in history books. Most amateur telescopes above 110-130mm tend to be reflectors because they're cheaper to make than refractors.
The mount is an equatorial mount ('German Equatorial Mount' or GEM), which instead of being left/right and up/down has its axis pointed at the north celestial pole (very near the pole star), so you just push it in one axis to follow the movement of the stars across the sky minute by minute. Such a mount might be a challenge to set up initially, and you may not even need it at low magnification, but at high magnification for the moon or planets you will be grateful of it, especially the motor drive which will automate this motion. If you get the scope, feel free to post back on here or PM me for advice on how to set up the mount. The telescope also needs to be nicely balanced for the motor drive to work - counterweights will be supplied for this purpose. ETA: If you want to use the mount's tracking capabilities, the initial one-time set up will be to set the angle of the head so that its axis points at the pole star (i.e. mount angle = your latitude), and then the setup everytime you go out will be to align the mount precisely to the pole star - for visual use (i.e. not astrophotography) a quick check by eye will suffice. Note that it isn't a 'goto' mount - so you'll need to manually find things, but that's half the fun!
I'd recommend the book 'Turn Left at Orion' for finding objects and understanding what you'll see through a telescope such as this, and the book has illustrations for the view through a 150mm reflector (if I remember rightly) very much like this one. Have a look at the book, or similar drawings online, before buying the scope, because what you see in no way approaches photographs, where the shutter is left open for a long time to gather more light - set your expectations correctly basically!
This scope should show you the rings on Saturn, the cloud belts on Jupiter, the moons orbiting Jupiter, the polar ice caps on Mars, and give stunning views of the Moon. You'll also be able to see faint smudges of galaxies or nebulae.
Attaching the camera might not be possible, or at most limited in its usefullness, as astrophotography requires a very steady mount and lots of practise. You should be able to photograph the moon though, and with practise, take video of the brighter planets and use software like 'Registax' to add the frames together to produce simple images. Don't count on the camera working well though. I have a degree in Astrophysics and 30 years of experience and I still don't attempt astrophotography myself! (it's my plan for retirement to learn).
Celestron as a brand are fine - they're one of the two major telescope manufacturers at the low to middle end of the amateur market, the other being Meade. Both also manufacture scopes of several thousand pounds for serious amateurs.
I would suggest that this is a very good starter telescope and I'd have loved it as a kid (I had a tiny little 60mm refractor!). I was a huge astronomy geek though - if your son has a passing interest he may need help and encouragement and may even get bored of the scope, but it'll always have a secondhand value.
HTH
The mount is an equatorial mount ('German Equatorial Mount' or GEM), which instead of being left/right and up/down has its axis pointed at the north celestial pole (very near the pole star), so you just push it in one axis to follow the movement of the stars across the sky minute by minute. Such a mount might be a challenge to set up initially, and you may not even need it at low magnification, but at high magnification for the moon or planets you will be grateful of it, especially the motor drive which will automate this motion. If you get the scope, feel free to post back on here or PM me for advice on how to set up the mount. The telescope also needs to be nicely balanced for the motor drive to work - counterweights will be supplied for this purpose. ETA: If you want to use the mount's tracking capabilities, the initial one-time set up will be to set the angle of the head so that its axis points at the pole star (i.e. mount angle = your latitude), and then the setup everytime you go out will be to align the mount precisely to the pole star - for visual use (i.e. not astrophotography) a quick check by eye will suffice. Note that it isn't a 'goto' mount - so you'll need to manually find things, but that's half the fun!
I'd recommend the book 'Turn Left at Orion' for finding objects and understanding what you'll see through a telescope such as this, and the book has illustrations for the view through a 150mm reflector (if I remember rightly) very much like this one. Have a look at the book, or similar drawings online, before buying the scope, because what you see in no way approaches photographs, where the shutter is left open for a long time to gather more light - set your expectations correctly basically!
This scope should show you the rings on Saturn, the cloud belts on Jupiter, the moons orbiting Jupiter, the polar ice caps on Mars, and give stunning views of the Moon. You'll also be able to see faint smudges of galaxies or nebulae.
Attaching the camera might not be possible, or at most limited in its usefullness, as astrophotography requires a very steady mount and lots of practise. You should be able to photograph the moon though, and with practise, take video of the brighter planets and use software like 'Registax' to add the frames together to produce simple images. Don't count on the camera working well though. I have a degree in Astrophysics and 30 years of experience and I still don't attempt astrophotography myself! (it's my plan for retirement to learn).
Celestron as a brand are fine - they're one of the two major telescope manufacturers at the low to middle end of the amateur market, the other being Meade. Both also manufacture scopes of several thousand pounds for serious amateurs.
I would suggest that this is a very good starter telescope and I'd have loved it as a kid (I had a tiny little 60mm refractor!). I was a huge astronomy geek though - if your son has a passing interest he may need help and encouragement and may even get bored of the scope, but it'll always have a secondhand value.
HTH
Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 25th March 11:33
Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 25th March 12:00
Thank you ever so much, chaps. Having discussed it with Mrs wijit we have decided to go for this and the book. The way I figure it, even if it's just a passing phase if it expands his mind it will be money well spent. If it encourages him to go on and take it up as a more serious hobby then it is money well spent. I only see a win/win situation.
I will post back here when he gets it, and give progress updates,whilst also taking up the very kind offer of further advice and assistance.
Once again, the community of ph rises above.
I will post back here when he gets it, and give progress updates,whilst also taking up the very kind offer of further advice and assistance.
Once again, the community of ph rises above.
wijit said:
Thank you ever so much, chaps. Having discussed it with Mrs wijit we have decided to go for this and the book. The way I figure it, even if it's just a passing phase if it expands his mind it will be money well spent. If it encourages him to go on and take it up as a more serious hobby then it is money well spent. I only see a win/win situation.
I will post back here when he gets it, and give progress updates,whilst also taking up the very kind offer of further advice and assistance.
Once again, the community of ph rises above.
Great news and glad to be of help.I will post back here when he gets it, and give progress updates,whilst also taking up the very kind offer of further advice and assistance.
Once again, the community of ph rises above.
Just a quick update. Mini-wijit's birthday yesterday and the telescope went down a treat! He has had a quick look through the book and is just waiting for the sky to be clear enough. I half set it up tonight, there are a couple of slightly difficult bits setting it but nothing I feel are serious enough to worry. The motor will not be mounted the right way up and I seem to have a spare little piece of metal. Triangular with a hexagonal hole in one corner and another, round hole, in another. It's not mentioned in the instructions (which are not too easy to follow for a total novice) and so will sit in a safe place until I discover that it was, in actual fact essential.
Also, once the battery was in, and because it was already in the "on" position, the motor started whirring although it didn't move anything. I'm guessing once set up properly that will sort itself out.
It hasn't been used to look at the sky yet, but so far so good. Really looking forward to my son looking through it. I might invest in the smartphone mount for it so he can try to take pictures.
Also, once the battery was in, and because it was already in the "on" position, the motor started whirring although it didn't move anything. I'm guessing once set up properly that will sort itself out.
It hasn't been used to look at the sky yet, but so far so good. Really looking forward to my son looking through it. I might invest in the smartphone mount for it so he can try to take pictures.
wijit said:
Just a quick update. Mini-wijit's birthday yesterday and the telescope went down a treat! He has had a quick look through the book and is just waiting for the sky to be clear enough. I half set it up tonight, there are a couple of slightly difficult bits setting it but nothing I feel are serious enough to worry. The motor will not be mounted the right way up and I seem to have a spare little piece of metal. Triangular with a hexagonal hole in one corner and another, round hole, in another. It's not mentioned in the instructions (which are not too easy to follow for a total novice) and so will sit in a safe place until I discover that it was, in actual fact essential.
Also, once the battery was in, and because it was already in the "on" position, the motor started whirring although it didn't move anything. I'm guessing once set up properly that will sort itself out.
It hasn't been used to look at the sky yet, but so far so good. Really looking forward to my son looking through it. I might invest in the smartphone mount for it so he can try to take pictures.
Should be a few clear nights over the next week - and there are some good targets up and about at the moment. Also, once the battery was in, and because it was already in the "on" position, the motor started whirring although it didn't move anything. I'm guessing once set up properly that will sort itself out.
It hasn't been used to look at the sky yet, but so far so good. Really looking forward to my son looking through it. I might invest in the smartphone mount for it so he can try to take pictures.
If you look to the west just after sunset - the really bright star is Venus (currently it will look like a 1/2 - 3/4 moon) Also - if you look south a little later - the brightest star is Jupiter. It's cloud belts and it's 4 main moons will be easily within reach.
Moonhawk said:
wijit said:
Just a quick update. Mini-wijit's birthday yesterday and the telescope went down a treat! He has had a quick look through the book and is just waiting for the sky to be clear enough. I half set it up tonight, there are a couple of slightly difficult bits setting it but nothing I feel are serious enough to worry. The motor will not be mounted the right way up and I seem to have a spare little piece of metal. Triangular with a hexagonal hole in one corner and another, round hole, in another. It's not mentioned in the instructions (which are not too easy to follow for a total novice) and so will sit in a safe place until I discover that it was, in actual fact essential.
Also, once the battery was in, and because it was already in the "on" position, the motor started whirring although it didn't move anything. I'm guessing once set up properly that will sort itself out.
It hasn't been used to look at the sky yet, but so far so good. Really looking forward to my son looking through it. I might invest in the smartphone mount for it so he can try to take pictures.
Should be a few clear nights over the next week - and there are some good targets up and about at the moment. Also, once the battery was in, and because it was already in the "on" position, the motor started whirring although it didn't move anything. I'm guessing once set up properly that will sort itself out.
It hasn't been used to look at the sky yet, but so far so good. Really looking forward to my son looking through it. I might invest in the smartphone mount for it so he can try to take pictures.
If you look to the west just after sunset - the really bright star is Venus (currently it will look like a 1/2 - 3/4 moon) Also - if you look south a little later - the brightest star is Jupiter. It's cloud belts and it's 4 main moons will be easily within reach.
I was going to say the same thing - two easy targets that look impressive. With Venus you should see the phase, but obviously its covered in cloud so you won't see any detail. With Jupiter you should see the moons and hopefully a couple of cloud belts across the middle of the planet.The triangular piece of metal is probably an eyepiece holder to go in the tripod - it'll also help with tripd rigidity. They usually fix in about two thirds of the way up between all three legs.
Well, we had a try tonight. Not a great success, it has to br said. I had to remove the motor as I simply don't quite understand it. But that's something I'll read more about that until I get it right for my lad's best viewing.
We couldn't really make out any sort of detail on planets, but my son was massively impressed at the countless stars he saw using the telescope which he had no idea were there with the naked eye.
So far, not amazing, but enough to maintain his enthusiasm to keep trying.
We couldn't really make out any sort of detail on planets, but my son was massively impressed at the countless stars he saw using the telescope which he had no idea were there with the naked eye.
So far, not amazing, but enough to maintain his enthusiasm to keep trying.
You won't see detail on Venus, as the atmosphere is just thick cloud that reflects loads of sunlight back at us. You should see subtle detail on Jupiter though. Jupiter will be high (~54 degrees) in the south west at about 9pm. Make sure you have a high enough power to see a disc (150-200x I'd have thought with your scope) and that you are in focus (carefully turn the focuser until you can make out stars as fine points of light, Jupiter's moons as tiny spheres or even just a crisp image of the disc of Jupiter itself) and you should see fine cloud belts across the centre of Jupiter.
You could even have a go at M81 and M82, just near Ursa Major, which is well placed at the moment (i.e. straight overhead, so looking perpendicular through the atmosphere, rather than at an angle and therefore through more atmosphere). Pick a night without a moon and get your eyes dark adapted and you should be able to see them with a low power eyepiece. Your book should show you how to find them using the stars in Ursa Major as a guide.
Don't worry about the motor yet. Eventually it'll be useful to stop things drifting out of view in high powers, especially as you swap between the two of you viewing.
You could even have a go at M81 and M82, just near Ursa Major, which is well placed at the moment (i.e. straight overhead, so looking perpendicular through the atmosphere, rather than at an angle and therefore through more atmosphere). Pick a night without a moon and get your eyes dark adapted and you should be able to see them with a low power eyepiece. Your book should show you how to find them using the stars in Ursa Major as a guide.
Don't worry about the motor yet. Eventually it'll be useful to stop things drifting out of view in high powers, especially as you swap between the two of you viewing.
The Orion nebula (M42) and Pleiades (M45) are still around for another couple of weeks - give them a try - they are probably the most spectacular of the winter DSOs.
Once summer kicks in - give the double cluster in Perseus a try - still takes my breath away even now.
With all of these objects - use a low power eyepiece.
Once summer kicks in - give the double cluster in Perseus a try - still takes my breath away even now.
With all of these objects - use a low power eyepiece.
Moonhawk said:
The Orion nebula (M42) and Pleiades (M45) are still around for another couple of weeks - give them a try - they are probably the most spectacular of the winter DSOs.
Once summer kicks in - give the double cluster in Perseus a try - still takes my breath away even now.
With all of these objects - use a low power eyepiece.
Don't get your hopes up too much for Deep Sky Objects, but M42 is definitely worth a look, as well as M81 and 82 that I listed above. It'd probably help if you look them up and explain to your son what they are - it's knowing what they are and how far away they are etc that starts to kindle the real awe of these things Once summer kicks in - give the double cluster in Perseus a try - still takes my breath away even now.
With all of these objects - use a low power eyepiece.
+1 for getting the book 'Turn left at orion'. A star atlas is also handy.
Download Stellarium (it's free!) plus a few apps for trying to identify what you're looking at. Just looking at a star can get a bit 'samey' and you may lose interest. Knowing what you're looking at or trying to find a particular object will keep your son interested.
Visit stargazerslounge.co.uk for lots more information and help. They are very friendly to newcomers and will answer all queries no matter how daft. Also see if there's an astro club near by as they can offer more practical help an assist with your setup.
Download Stellarium (it's free!) plus a few apps for trying to identify what you're looking at. Just looking at a star can get a bit 'samey' and you may lose interest. Knowing what you're looking at or trying to find a particular object will keep your son interested.
Visit stargazerslounge.co.uk for lots more information and help. They are very friendly to newcomers and will answer all queries no matter how daft. Also see if there's an astro club near by as they can offer more practical help an assist with your setup.
We'll be trying again tomorrow evening, probably just before sunset through as long as we can (probably match of the day!). I've shown him pictures of M42 and M45. I don't think it's worth looking for them just at this stage because after the pictures I think he'd struggle to connect what he would actually see with what hey really are. But what I would say is even though he can't see them it helps to keep his interest and as I said earlier in the thread, even if this is just a fad it is worth it just to expand his mind. If he takes it up as a serious hobby then it is even more worth it.
We will refer to the book tomorrow, and hopefully figure out where to look in the sky. When you're absolute beginners it is and even bigger sky than we imagine, but hopefully we'll find a few things to look at. He's asked for the attachment which would allow him to use his phone to take pictures. As it's only £55 I think we'll get that to add on.
We will refer to the book tomorrow, and hopefully figure out where to look in the sky. When you're absolute beginners it is and even bigger sky than we imagine, but hopefully we'll find a few things to look at. He's asked for the attachment which would allow him to use his phone to take pictures. As it's only £55 I think we'll get that to add on.
RobM77 said:
Don't get your hopes up too much for Deep Sky Objects, but M42 is definitely worth a look, as well as M81 and 82 that I listed above. It'd probably help if you look them up and explain to your son what they are - it's knowing what they are and how far away they are etc that starts to kindle the real awe of these things
Plenty of DSOs are visible with the OP's scope - all of the Messier objects should be, depending on light pollution, dark adaption etc. I do agree with managing expectations though - most DSOs will look like fuzzy blobs (possible exception is M57 below which shows a very defined shape).As summer comes - look out for M57 (Ring Nebula), M27 (dumbbell nebula), M13 (Hercules Globular) and M31/M32 (Andromeda Galaxy and its companion)
Also some interesting double stars - e.g. Albeiro in Cygnus which shows great colour contrast (orange/blue) and Epsilon Lyrae which is a double, double star.
Edited by Moonhawk on Saturday 18th April 10:23
Moonhawk said:
RobM77 said:
Don't get your hopes up too much for Deep Sky Objects, but M42 is definitely worth a look, as well as M81 and 82 that I listed above. It'd probably help if you look them up and explain to your son what they are - it's knowing what they are and how far away they are etc that starts to kindle the real awe of these things
Plenty of DSOs are visible with the OP's scope - all of the Messier objects should be, depending on light pollution, dark adaption etc. I do agree with managing expectations though - most DSOs will look like fuzzy blobs (possible exception is M57 below which shows a very defined shape).As summer comes - look out for M57 (Ring Nebula), M27 (dumbbell nebula), M13 (Hercules Globular) and M31/M32 (Andromeda Galaxy and its companion)
Also some interesting double stars - e.g. Albeiro in Cygnus which shows great colour contrast (orange/blue) and Epsilon Lyrae which is a double, double star.
Edited by Moonhawk on Saturday 18th April 10:23
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