solar supercritical world record

[steamed]

As nobody has posted on here yet, though I would for you science people..
A world first has been achieved by CSIRO, which has used solar energy to generate ‘supercritical’ steam, at the highest temperatures ever achieved outside of fossil fuel sources.

A solar thermal power plant typically consists of a large number of mirrors, called heliostats, which reflect the energy from the sun onto a central tower. The plant then generates electricity the same way that most of the world’s electricity is produced, namely by heating water to create steam, to turn a steam turbine. A great answer to the green lot!

More if your interested: http://steammain.com/forum/general-steam/steam-use...

[Simpo Two]

At what point does subcritical become supercritical?

Can they not just state temperatures and take the 'woo!' out of it?

[hidetheelephants]

Brilliant, they've taken an expensive white elephant and found a way of making it less reliable and more expensive.

[MrCarPark]

The article is vague on details but I assume this means that they've added superheaters to the existing saturated steam plant. This 'breakthrough' will in theory allow solar plants to be designed to use standard turbine sets from fossil fuel plants.

The problem is that these plants are collecting minuscule levels of power compared to what a fossil turbine set requires, so it is all a bit hyped.

Edited by MrCarPark on Wednesday 12th November 07:01

[Moonhawk]

Simpo Two said:

At what point does subcritical become supercritical?

Can they not just state temperatures and take the 'woo!' out of it?

It actually has a very precise technical/scientific meaning:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercritical_steam_g...

[hidetheelephants]

MrCarPark said:

The article is vague on details but I assume this means that they've added superheaters to the existing saturated steam plant. This 'breakthrough' will in theory allow solar plants to be designed to use standard turbine sets from fossil fuel plants.

That's a problem, as even in coal plants supercritical steam is new technology; until nimonic alloy turbines have been in widespread use for a few years and data been fed back to the makers there's not really such a thing as a standard turbine, the few in use are effectively prototypes. The German government have forced this into use, possibly before it's ready, by insisting new coal plants have better than ever paper efficiency. They might be fine, but it would be prudent to wait and see.

[Simpo Two]

Moonhawk said:

It actually has a very precise technical/scientific meaning:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercritical_steam_g...

Thanks. It's odd the article didn't bother to explain what their wonderword actually meant. But I suppose leaving it at 'supercritical' wow sounds like an atom bomb is more exciting. And then you wonder why they need to do it - and leave a collection of fairly intelligent fairly scientific people wondering what they heck they're talking about.

[MrCarPark]

hidetheelephants said:

MrCarPark said:

The article is vague on details but I assume this means that they've added superheaters to the existing saturated steam plant. This 'breakthrough' will in theory allow solar plants to be designed to use standard turbine sets from fossil fuel plants.

That's a problem, as even in coal plants supercritical steam is new technology; until nimonic alloy turbines have been in widespread use for a few years and data been fed back to the makers there's not really such a thing as a standard turbine, the few in use are effectively prototypes. The German government have forced this into use, possibly before it's ready, by insisting new coal plants have better than ever paper efficiency. They might be fine, but it would be prudent to wait and see.

Wouldn't they just throttle it back to subcritical pressure and supply superheated steam that an existing turbine could use?

[hidetheelephants]

MrCarPark said:

Wouldn't they just throttle it back to subcritical pressure and supply superheated steam that an existing turbine could use?

You could, but the cost of a steam generator capable of dealing with supercritical temperatures will make the things even less attractive. For optimum performance you want a steam source matched to the turbine.

[steamed]

Article is meant to be a quick read and not have loads of detail.
Alot of the existing solar plants, (PS ones in Spain) operate on 40 barg saturated steam. Higher pressures and temperatures of steam generation is due to developments in the use of the tower and mirrors rather than trough type csp technology.
If you want to find out all about solar thermal power:
http://steammain.com/forum/general-steam/steam-use...
or if you have more time a great document...
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...

Edited by steamed on Monday 24th November 21:08