Earth life 'may have come from Mars'
Discussion
So science fiction was wrong after all - we are the Martians 
On a serious note, it's very interesting to think that Mars may have been where the biology started.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-2387...
On a serious note, it's very interesting to think that Mars may have been where the biology started.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-2387...
From a topic (not) long ago in a forum (not very) far away.
Mojocvh said:
Some light reading for ya.....
Ref 1.
http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/info/press-releases/Mart...
...UH Astrobiologists Find Martian Clay Contains Chemical Implicated in the Origin of Life
University of Hawaii
For immediate release
June 10, 2013
Researchers from the University of Hawaii at Manoa NASA Astrobiology
Institute (UHNAI) have discovered high concentrations of boron in a
Martian meteorite. When present in its oxidized form (borate), boron may
have played a key role in the formation of RNA, one of the building
blocks for life.
The work was published on June 6 in PLOS One
<http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi/10.1371/journal.pone.0064624>.
The Antarctic Search for Meteorites team found the Martian meteorite
used in this study in Antarctica during its 2009-2010 field season. The
minerals it contains, as well as its chemical composition, clearly show
that it is of Martian origin.
Using the ion microprobe in the W. M. Keck Cosmochemistry Laboratory at
UH, the team was able to analyze veins of Martian clay in the meteorite.
After ruling out contamination from Earth, they determined boron
abundances in these clays are over ten times higher than in any
previously measured meteorite.
"Borates may have been important for the origin of life on Earth because
they can stabilize ribose, a crucial component of RNA. In early life RNA
is thought to have been the informational precursor to DNA," said James
Stephenson, a UHNAI postdoctoral fellow.
RNA may have been the first molecule to store information and pass it on
to the next generation, a mechanism crucial for evolution. Although life
has now evolved a sophisticated mechanism to synthesize RNA, the first
RNA molecules must have been made without such help. One of the most
difficult steps in making RNA nonbiologically is the formation of the
RNA sugar component, ribose. Previous laboratory tests have shown that
without borate the chemicals available on the early Earth fail to build
ribose. However, in the presence of borate, ribose is spontaneously
produced and stabilized.
This work was born from the uniquely interdisciplinary environment of
UHNAI. The lead authors on the paper, Stephenson, an evolutionary
biologist, and Lydia Hallis, a cosmochemist who is also a UHNAI
postdoctoral fellow, first came up with the idea over an after-work
beer. "Given that boron has been implicated in the emergence of life, I
had assumed that it was well characterized in meteorites," said
Stephenson. "Discussing this with Dr. Hallis, I found out that it was
barely studied. I was shocked and excited. She then informed me that
both the samples and the specialized machinery needed to analyze them
were available at UH."
On our planet, borate-enriched salt, sediment and clay deposits are
relatively common, but such deposits had never previously been found on
an extraterrestrial body. This new research suggests that when life was
getting started on Earth, borate could also have been concentrated in
deposits on Mars.
The significance goes beyond an interest in the red planet, as Hallis
explains: "Earth and Mars used to have much more in common than they do
today. Over time, Mars has lost a lot of its atmosphere and surface
water, but ancient meteorites preserve delicate clays from wetter
periods in Mars' history. The Martian clay we studied is thought to be
up to 700 million years old. The recycling of the Earth's crust via
plate tectonics has left no evidence of clays this old on our planet;
hence Martian clays could provide essential information regarding
environmental conditions on the early Earth."
The presence of ancient borate-enriched clays on Mars implies that these
clays may also have been present on the early Earth. Borate-enriched
clays such as the ones studied here may have represented chemical havens
in which one of life's key molecular building blocks could form.
UHNAI is a research center that links the biological, chemical, geological,
and astronomical sciences to better understand the origin, history,
distribution, and role of water as it relates to life in the universe.
Ref2.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi/10.1371/...
We have detected a concentration of boron in martian clay far in excess of that in any previously reported extra-terrestrial object. This enrichment indicates that the chemistry necessary for the formation of ribose, a key component of RNA, could have existed on Mars since the formation of early clay deposits, contemporary to the emergence of life on Earth. Given the greater similarity of Earth and Mars early in their geological history, and the extensive disruption of Earth's earliest mineralogy by plate tectonics, we suggest that the conditions for prebiotic ribose synthesis may be better understood by further Mars exploration....
I heard this on the radio this morning, you think the scientist may have some idea of what is going on elswhere in his field. Ref 1.
http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/info/press-releases/Mart...
...UH Astrobiologists Find Martian Clay Contains Chemical Implicated in the Origin of Life
University of Hawaii
For immediate release
June 10, 2013
Researchers from the University of Hawaii at Manoa NASA Astrobiology
Institute (UHNAI) have discovered high concentrations of boron in a
Martian meteorite. When present in its oxidized form (borate), boron may
have played a key role in the formation of RNA, one of the building
blocks for life.
The work was published on June 6 in PLOS One
<http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi/10.1371/journal.pone.0064624>.
The Antarctic Search for Meteorites team found the Martian meteorite
used in this study in Antarctica during its 2009-2010 field season. The
minerals it contains, as well as its chemical composition, clearly show
that it is of Martian origin.
Using the ion microprobe in the W. M. Keck Cosmochemistry Laboratory at
UH, the team was able to analyze veins of Martian clay in the meteorite.
After ruling out contamination from Earth, they determined boron
abundances in these clays are over ten times higher than in any
previously measured meteorite.
"Borates may have been important for the origin of life on Earth because
they can stabilize ribose, a crucial component of RNA. In early life RNA
is thought to have been the informational precursor to DNA," said James
Stephenson, a UHNAI postdoctoral fellow.
RNA may have been the first molecule to store information and pass it on
to the next generation, a mechanism crucial for evolution. Although life
has now evolved a sophisticated mechanism to synthesize RNA, the first
RNA molecules must have been made without such help. One of the most
difficult steps in making RNA nonbiologically is the formation of the
RNA sugar component, ribose. Previous laboratory tests have shown that
without borate the chemicals available on the early Earth fail to build
ribose. However, in the presence of borate, ribose is spontaneously
produced and stabilized.
This work was born from the uniquely interdisciplinary environment of
UHNAI. The lead authors on the paper, Stephenson, an evolutionary
biologist, and Lydia Hallis, a cosmochemist who is also a UHNAI
postdoctoral fellow, first came up with the idea over an after-work
beer. "Given that boron has been implicated in the emergence of life, I
had assumed that it was well characterized in meteorites," said
Stephenson. "Discussing this with Dr. Hallis, I found out that it was
barely studied. I was shocked and excited. She then informed me that
both the samples and the specialized machinery needed to analyze them
were available at UH."
On our planet, borate-enriched salt, sediment and clay deposits are
relatively common, but such deposits had never previously been found on
an extraterrestrial body. This new research suggests that when life was
getting started on Earth, borate could also have been concentrated in
deposits on Mars.
The significance goes beyond an interest in the red planet, as Hallis
explains: "Earth and Mars used to have much more in common than they do
today. Over time, Mars has lost a lot of its atmosphere and surface
water, but ancient meteorites preserve delicate clays from wetter
periods in Mars' history. The Martian clay we studied is thought to be
up to 700 million years old. The recycling of the Earth's crust via
plate tectonics has left no evidence of clays this old on our planet;
hence Martian clays could provide essential information regarding
environmental conditions on the early Earth."
The presence of ancient borate-enriched clays on Mars implies that these
clays may also have been present on the early Earth. Borate-enriched
clays such as the ones studied here may have represented chemical havens
in which one of life's key molecular building blocks could form.
UHNAI is a research center that links the biological, chemical, geological,
and astronomical sciences to better understand the origin, history,
distribution, and role of water as it relates to life in the universe.
Ref2.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi/10.1371/...
We have detected a concentration of boron in martian clay far in excess of that in any previously reported extra-terrestrial object. This enrichment indicates that the chemistry necessary for the formation of ribose, a key component of RNA, could have existed on Mars since the formation of early clay deposits, contemporary to the emergence of life on Earth. Given the greater similarity of Earth and Mars early in their geological history, and the extensive disruption of Earth's earliest mineralogy by plate tectonics, we suggest that the conditions for prebiotic ribose synthesis may be better understood by further Mars exploration....
Simpo Two said:
Haven't we covered this before?
1) Borate are on Mars.
2) Borates are needed for life.
3) Therefore life came from Mars.
Whether or not life came from Mars, the logic is complete b
ks.
"We have detected a concentration of boron in martian clay far in excess of that in any previously reported extra-terrestrial object. This enrichment indicates that the chemistry necessary for the formation of ribose, a key component of RNA, could have existed on Mars since the formation of early clay deposits, contemporary to the emergence of life on Earth. Given the greater similarity of Earth and Mars early in their geological history, and the extensive disruption of Earth's earliest mineralogy by plate tectonics, we suggest that the conditions for prebiotic ribose synthesis may be better understood by further Mars exploration...."1) Borate are on Mars.
2) Borates are needed for life.
3) Therefore life came from Mars.
Whether or not life came from Mars, the logic is complete b
ks.No. Thats not what she said. Above is what she said.
XM5ER said:
No. Thats not what she said. Above is what she said.
It still doesn't stack up, just like it didn't stack up before. 'Could have'. I 'could have' jumped off the Empire State Building today, but I didn't. 'Could have' means nothing. A Jumbo Jet 'could have' crashed on my house today - but it didn't. That's how much use the concept of 'could have' means - the flip side is 'probably didn't'.AS far as I'm concerned, the constant seeking to find extraterestrial origins for life is nothing more than a proxy for saying "God did it".
The idea that the spark for life had to come from Mars where it spontaneously arose rather than it spontaneously arising on Earth makes little sense.
The idea that the spark for life had to come from Mars where it spontaneously arose rather than it spontaneously arising on Earth makes little sense.
Nothing wrong for looking for signs of life elsewhere.
To me it is a fundamental scientific quest and nothing to do with God or religion at all.
And could we PLEASE leave God discussions out of the science section - or at least, restrict the debate to the "philosophical" thread.
As I mentioned over in the new forum, debates on God and religion are becoming mighty tedious and repetitive on PH and are ruining otherwise interesting discussions.
To me it is a fundamental scientific quest and nothing to do with God or religion at all.
And could we PLEASE leave God discussions out of the science section - or at least, restrict the debate to the "philosophical" thread.
As I mentioned over in the new forum, debates on God and religion are becoming mighty tedious and repetitive on PH and are ruining otherwise interesting discussions.
Eric, the seeking after the existence of extra-terrestrial life within or without our solar system is a perfectly noble and valid pursuit. I'm all for it.
However, how often have we seen this "life came from outer space" headline; comets did it, Martian meteorites did it, etc.. There is a very strong chance that the journalists deliberately misinterpret what the scientist is saying however, in the case of the BBC report from a few days ago, it is unequivocal that Prof Benner is saying exactly that. My opinion is that the dismissal of the concept of life spontaneously arising on earth without external influence probably originates from pseudo religious belief that is Judaeo-Christian in origin.
As for debating the existence of God with people on the internet, there could not be a fruitless exercise imaginable.
That said, talking about the influence of various religious belief systems on the thinking and therefore, conclusions of scientists would make an interesting thread, Big Bang, Gaia, AGW etc. It need not devolve into name calling.
However, how often have we seen this "life came from outer space" headline; comets did it, Martian meteorites did it, etc.. There is a very strong chance that the journalists deliberately misinterpret what the scientist is saying however, in the case of the BBC report from a few days ago, it is unequivocal that Prof Benner is saying exactly that. My opinion is that the dismissal of the concept of life spontaneously arising on earth without external influence probably originates from pseudo religious belief that is Judaeo-Christian in origin.
As for debating the existence of God with people on the internet, there could not be a fruitless exercise imaginable.
That said, talking about the influence of various religious belief systems on the thinking and therefore, conclusions of scientists would make an interesting thread, Big Bang, Gaia, AGW etc. It need not devolve into name calling.
Simpo Two said:
It still doesn't stack up, just like it didn't stack up before. 'Could have'. I 'could have' jumped off the Empire State Building today, but I didn't. 'Could have' means nothing. A Jumbo Jet 'could have' crashed on my house today - but it didn't. That's how much use the concept of 'could have' means - the flip side is 'probably didn't'.
Was it even remotely possible that you jumped of the empire state building today, were you in New York for instance?They are simply saying it's a possibility that they feel merits more investigation, what's your problem with that?
Unfortunately, it always does.
I don't mind discussing religion, faith, beliefs etc but the standard of debate on PH (and on the internet in general) is crass, boorish and generally unedifying to all involved.
I'd prefer to keep these types of "debates" (I use the term loosely) away from the Science Forum.
It's best to let them get on with it elsewhere.
I don't mind discussing religion, faith, beliefs etc but the standard of debate on PH (and on the internet in general) is crass, boorish and generally unedifying to all involved.
I'd prefer to keep these types of "debates" (I use the term loosely) away from the Science Forum.
It's best to let them get on with it elsewhere.
Eric Mc said:
Unfortunately, it always does.
I don't mind discussing religion, faith, beliefs etc but the standard of debate on PH (and on the internet in general) is crass, boorish and generally unedifying to all involved.
I'd prefer to keep these types of "debates" (I use the term loosely) away from the Science Forum.
It's best to let them get on with it elsewhere.
Well said.I don't mind discussing religion, faith, beliefs etc but the standard of debate on PH (and on the internet in general) is crass, boorish and generally unedifying to all involved.
I'd prefer to keep these types of "debates" (I use the term loosely) away from the Science Forum.
It's best to let them get on with it elsewhere.
As has been stated the media drag things all out of proportion.
It was reported in other media that the conditions they propose existed on Mars, didn't exist on Earth, hence where the 'Life came from Mars' headlines have come from, whether this was actually proposed or speculated by the team involved is unknown.
It's more plausible that there were conditions for producing various components of life all over the solar system.
It was reported in other media that the conditions they propose existed on Mars, didn't exist on Earth, hence where the 'Life came from Mars' headlines have come from, whether this was actually proposed or speculated by the team involved is unknown.
It's more plausible that there were conditions for producing various components of life all over the solar system.
Eric Mc said:
Unfortunately, it always does.
I don't mind discussing religion, faith, beliefs etc but the standard of debate on PH (and on the internet in general) is crass, boorish and generally unedifying to all involved.
I'd prefer to keep these types of "debates" (I use the term loosely) away from the Science Forum.
It's best to let them get on with it elsewhere.
No YOU shut up.I don't mind discussing religion, faith, beliefs etc but the standard of debate on PH (and on the internet in general) is crass, boorish and generally unedifying to all involved.
I'd prefer to keep these types of "debates" (I use the term loosely) away from the Science Forum.
It's best to let them get on with it elsewhere.
Gassing Station | Science! | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff