How did humans ever survive?
Discussion
My second child is around 8 weeks old now.
Watching him, it strikes me how humans survived as a species.
Babies are so helpless and stupid. They can't communicate without screaming loudly and making a racket. They can't walk or defend themselves in any given situation. They are stupidly fragile. etc. etc. etc.
Surely, before we were a modern society and living in caves, wrestling lions and hunting dinosaurs with bow and arrows, babies would have been picked off by predators with all the noise they make. How have we not evolved to be mobile when born like other animals are? Or at least not so bloody noisy...
Watching him, it strikes me how humans survived as a species.
Babies are so helpless and stupid. They can't communicate without screaming loudly and making a racket. They can't walk or defend themselves in any given situation. They are stupidly fragile. etc. etc. etc.
Surely, before we were a modern society and living in caves, wrestling lions and hunting dinosaurs with bow and arrows, babies would have been picked off by predators with all the noise they make. How have we not evolved to be mobile when born like other animals are? Or at least not so bloody noisy...
grumbledoak said:
Our babies have to be born about nine months 'premature' because we walk upright. Well, because women walk upright. It's to do with the hips needing to be stronger.
I seem to remember hearing that, because of our larger brains, we are born early to allow the skull to fit through the pelvis before it grows too large - Hence babies are more helpless for a while.rhinochopig said:
Opposable thumbs and the capacity for 'I wonder what would happen if...' Now factor in the video camera and the phrase 'watch this' and our days are numbered as a species.
Not so much the video camera as the mobile phone. Now that virtually everybody has the ability to capture video (not just geeky dads), the human race has about 50 years - max.The problem is going to be the pre-teen and early teen males - wiping themselves out before they have a chance to breed.
Eric Mc said:
Not so much the video camera as the mobile phone. Now that virtually everybody has the ability to capture video (not just geeky dads), the human race has about 50 years - max.
The problem is going to be the pre-teen and early teen males - wiping themselves out before they have a chance to breed.
The problem is going to be the pre-teen and early teen males - wiping themselves out before they have a chance to breed.
Seems likely to be a better evolutionary driver than trench warfare...
fluffnik said:
Eric Mc said:
Not so much the video camera as the mobile phone. Now that virtually everybody has the ability to capture video (not just geeky dads), the human race has about 50 years - max.
The problem is going to be the pre-teen and early teen males - wiping themselves out before they have a chance to breed.
The problem is going to be the pre-teen and early teen males - wiping themselves out before they have a chance to breed.
Seems likely to be a better evolutionary driver than trench warfare...
Mobile devices for recording moving images and general idiocy will be around from now until the demise of the species - and will probably hasten that demise.
MysteryLemon said:
Surely, before we were a modern society and living in caves, wrestling lions and hunting dinosaurs with bow and arrows, babies would have been picked off by predators with all the noise they make. How have we not evolved to be mobile when born like other animals are? Or at least not so bloody noisy...
Bear in mind humans are a predator species ourselves, so in many cases our young would have survived because we could fight off many predators. Opposable thumbs really help and humans have the best throwing skills of just about any animal - throw a few rocks and many predators will back off to find something a bit easier.grumbledoak said:
Our babies have to be born about nine months 'premature' because we walk upright. Well, because women walk upright. It's to do with the hips needing to be stronger.
Our hips are narrow because we are essentially a 4 legged mammal that's evolved to walk on 2. The hips narrowed to focus the upper body weight in a small area, that could then be spread out by the legs.Narrow, hips, big brain, hence dangerous and early childbirth. It's an evolutionary sacrifice, that obviously worked. The problems of early birth and painful/dangerous birth are more than compensated for by a big brain and walking upright.
Flibble said:
Bear in mind humans are a predator species ourselves, so in many cases our young would have survived because we could fight off many predators. Opposable thumbs really help and humans have the best throwing skills of just about any animal - throw a few rocks and many predators will back off to find something a bit easier.
Next time I'm being charged by an African bull elephant I'll try to remember that.The fundamental thing is the degree of protection/care given by the parents. Generally the further up the evolutionary tree you go, the number of offspring decreases and the care proportionally increases.
So if you're a fish, you splurge out 30,000 eggs and clear off, and maybe 10 will survive. If you're a human, you only have two and look after them properly. And of course, the parents that looked after their children best have the best chance of passing on their genes, so evolution will select for it.
So if you're a fish, you splurge out 30,000 eggs and clear off, and maybe 10 will survive. If you're a human, you only have two and look after them properly. And of course, the parents that looked after their children best have the best chance of passing on their genes, so evolution will select for it.
Eric Mc said:
Flibble said:
Bear in mind humans are a predator species ourselves, so in many cases our young would have survived because we could fight off many predators. Opposable thumbs really help and humans have the best throwing skills of just about any animal - throw a few rocks and many predators will back off to find something a bit easier.
Next time I'm being charged by an African bull elephant I'll try to remember that it can't be what you're talking about as it's not a predator.MysteryLemon said:
They are stupidly fragile.
If there's one thing that babies and children are not, that's fragile.They're one heck of a lot more resilient and robust than you probably give them credit for.
When the nurse handed me my first born for the first time her words to me were, "Relax! They bounce if you drop them."
While I wasn't going to test the theory, the past few years have certainly indicated the nurse probably wasn't far wrong. Especially when HalfPints mk2 made an appearance. How the two siblings they haven't killed each is a mystery.
Pints said:
MysteryLemon said:
They are stupidly fragile.
If there's one thing that babies and children are not, that's fragile.They're one heck of a lot more resilient and robust than you probably give them credit for.
When the nurse handed me my first born for the first time her words to me were, "Relax! They bounce if you drop them."
While I wasn't going to test the theory, the past few years have certainly indicated the nurse probably wasn't far wrong. Especially when HalfPints mk2 made an appearance. How the two siblings they haven't killed each is a mystery.
Pothole said:
Eric Mc said:
Flibble said:
Bear in mind humans are a predator species ourselves, so in many cases our young would have survived because we could fight off many predators. Opposable thumbs really help and humans have the best throwing skills of just about any animal - throw a few rocks and many predators will back off to find something a bit easier.
Next time I'm being charged by an African bull elephant I'll try to remember that it can't be what you're talking about as it's not a predator.TwigtheWonderkid said:
grumbledoak said:
Our babies have to be born about nine months 'premature' because we walk upright. Well, because women walk upright. It's to do with the hips needing to be stronger.
Our hips are narrow because we are essentially a 4 legged mammal that's evolved to walk on 2. The hips narrowed to focus the upper body weight in a small area, that could then be spread out by the legs.Narrow, hips, big brain, hence dangerous and early childbirth. It's an evolutionary sacrifice, that obviously worked. The problems of early birth and painful/dangerous birth are more than compensated for by a big brain and walking upright.
ks!The issue is all down to energy, basically a human can only generate so much energy per day, there's a bio-chemical limit. Basically when the unborn baby is drawing over a certain amount of energy it has to be born otherwise the mother would die from a lack of energy.
Hence why mothers are so tired in late stages of pregnancy.
This actually benefits us as a species as there is less pre-programmed ability (e.g. walking) and more learning ability.
Yes we are more vulnerable as an infant, but much more dangerous to other things as an adult.
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