"fires aluminium rounds close to the speed of light"

"fires aluminium rounds close to the speed of light"

Author
Discussion

Tim330

Original Poster:

1,169 posts

218 months

Saturday 13th April 2013
quotequote all
Eraser is at the moment on E4. The rail gun used in this film fires projectiles this fast. This seems a bit optimistic.

As this is the the science forum lets assume the bullet weighs 10 grams

KE=1/2MV2

1/2 *10*(299 792 458 ^2)= 449377589368408.8 joules

As a watt is a joule per second this seems like alot of power for a hand held weapon. I've been at the pub so stand to be corrected by any real scientists!

dundarach

5,288 posts

234 months

Saturday 13th April 2013
quotequote all
smarty pants, sounds impressive your maths that is - might be a bit optimistic

i'm going for alien on film 4 however

MixxyMatosis

388 posts

175 months

Sunday 14th April 2013
quotequote all
Not sure how a rail gun would go about firing non ferrous rounds exactly.

eldar

22,483 posts

202 months

Sunday 14th April 2013
quotequote all
MixxyMatosis said:
Not sure how a rail gun would go about firing non ferrous rounds exactly.
Sabot?

Otispunkmeyer

12,916 posts

161 months

Sunday 14th April 2013
quotequote all
Could be a sabot round? I think rail gun rounds have to be like this or else you just vaporize the projectile (especially so with something as weedy as Aluminium).

But does it need to be ferrous? I just needs to conduct electricity, the current in the round would produce the electromagnetic field to interact with the two from the rails surely?

Another problem is, hand held weapon...short rails. So you need lots of energy very fast to accelerate the projectile. It'll just weld or vaporize the projectile. You can try get round this by shielding with injections of inert gas.

close to the speed of light thing is balls though. Sure it would be very quick, supersonic easily. But far from the speed of light.

otolith

58,390 posts

210 months

Sunday 14th April 2013
quotequote all
Hand held weapon. Projectile close to the speed of light. Newton's third law.

VinceFox

20,566 posts

178 months

Sunday 14th April 2013
quotequote all
carry the three.

annodomini2

6,901 posts

257 months

Sunday 14th April 2013
quotequote all
As mentioned, Newtons 3rd law, momentum of projectile = 2,967,945.3342 kg.m/s (@99% C), if the gun weighs 10kg recoil velocity is 296,794.53342 m/s. (Faster than any man made object to date!)


driverrob

4,744 posts

209 months

Sunday 14th April 2013
quotequote all
Tim330 said:
Eraser is at the moment on E4. The rail gun used in this film fires projectiles this fast. This seems a bit optimistic.

As this is the the science forum lets assume the bullet weighs 10 grams

KE=1/2MV2

1/2 *10*(299 792 458 ^2)= 449377589368408.8 joules

As a watt is a joule per second this seems like alot of power for a hand held weapon. I've been at the pub so stand to be corrected by any real scientists!
It's much worse.
Apart from mass needing to be in kg, relativistic increase in mass that close to the speed of light would increase the energy by a huge factor - approaching infinity.

Tim330

Original Poster:

1,169 posts

218 months

Sunday 14th April 2013
quotequote all
So the assuming the gun didn't explode & a portable power source existed, the person firing it would shoot off in the opposite direction pretty fast. Also I suppose the projectile would melt from the air resistance way before reaching its target. Love Hollywood physics.

otolith

58,390 posts

210 months

mrmr96

13,736 posts

210 months

Sunday 14th April 2013
quotequote all
Tim330 said:
Eraser is at the moment on E4. The rail gun used in this film fires projectiles this fast. This seems a bit optimistic.

As this is the the science forum lets assume the bullet weighs 10 grams

KE=1/2MV2

1/2 *10*(299 792 458 ^2)= 449377589368408.8 joules

As a watt is a joule per second this seems like alot of power for a hand held weapon. I've been at the pub so stand to be corrected by any real scientists!
Grams of kilograms?

Tim330

Original Poster:

1,169 posts

218 months

Sunday 14th April 2013
quotequote all
otolith said:
I've seen that before but didn't put the 2 together.

Tim330

Original Poster:

1,169 posts

218 months

Sunday 14th April 2013
quotequote all
mrmr96 said:
Grams of kilograms?
Yes, sorry for the equation the units are kg as someone pointed out.

hairykrishna

13,472 posts

209 months

Sunday 14th April 2013
quotequote all
MixxyMatosis said:
Not sure how a rail gun would go about firing non ferrous rounds exactly.
Don't need to be magnetic, just conductive.

scubadude

2,618 posts

203 months

Monday 15th April 2013
quotequote all
Tim330 said:
As this is the the science forum lets assume the bullet weighs 10 grams
Ignoring the many many other issues- why would you need such an enormously heavy projectile?

"IF" you could hit a target with something at that speed you don't need very much weight, mc squared afterall :-)

otolith

58,390 posts

210 months

Monday 15th April 2013
quotequote all
Maybe someone could calculate how much mass one could accelerate to .9c while generating a tolerable recoil?

hairykrishna

13,472 posts

209 months

Monday 15th April 2013
quotequote all
otolith said:
Maybe someone could calculate how much mass one could accelerate to .9c while generating a tolerable recoil?
Fairly straight forward if we pretend that relativity doesn't exist...

12 gauge shotgun slugs generate a fair bit of recoil, ~30g at 500m/s. Same momentum at 0.9c would need the projectile to be about 0.00005g (50 micrograms). Half a grain of sand or so.

(quick sum so apologies for any misplaced powers of 10)

driverrob

4,744 posts

209 months

Monday 15th April 2013
quotequote all
Approx. 4 x 10^-14 kg.
Do you want the full working?

annodomini2

6,901 posts

257 months

Monday 15th April 2013
quotequote all
otolith said:
Maybe someone could calculate how much mass one could accelerate to .9c while generating a tolerable recoil?
It's all down to barrel length and projectile mass.