Revolution Science - Would it be possible?
Discussion
For those of you that are following the new JJ Abrams series "Revolution", recently they revealed why the power went out and won't come back on.
I am curious to know whether such a concept would even be theoretically possible. For those of you that are not following the series, a brief description of the issue is below -
All the power in the world suddenly went off, and from that point nothing in the world that used electricity would work. It transpires that the military deployed some kind of virus sized nanotechnology which has two functions - absorb electricity and replicate. For reasons that have not been revealed yet, they cannot be turned off and are continuing to do so.
I don't know a huge amount about nanotechnology, but would assume they would need building blocks as well as power in order to replicate, but I am interested in the theoretical possibility)
Interested to hear your thoughts
I am curious to know whether such a concept would even be theoretically possible. For those of you that are not following the series, a brief description of the issue is below -
All the power in the world suddenly went off, and from that point nothing in the world that used electricity would work. It transpires that the military deployed some kind of virus sized nanotechnology which has two functions - absorb electricity and replicate. For reasons that have not been revealed yet, they cannot be turned off and are continuing to do so.
I don't know a huge amount about nanotechnology, but would assume they would need building blocks as well as power in order to replicate, but I am interested in the theoretical possibility)
Interested to hear your thoughts
There are plot holes all over the place in that programme if you have any knowledge of science. How is it that firearms work with no problem whatsoever, but a basic diesel engine is completely unable to function? - there are plenty of engines which have no need for electricity as they are entirely mechanical in operation.
The whole self replicating nanotechnology thing is entirely in the realm of science fiction, and is likely to stay there. The reason being that at the nano-scale, it becomes incredibly difficult to handle and manipulate materials. Things don't work in quite the same way as they do at the macro or even micro scale so you can't simply design a machine that works at normal size and expect to duplicate it thousands of times smaller. Surface effects dominate, as the surface area of objects is very large compared to their volume; in comparison macro scale objects have a relatively small surface area to volume ratio. Because of this, nano-particles tend to stick to each other and clump together. Quantum mechanics also start to become important at that size.
Consider what would be involved in a nano-scale machine creating another nano-scale machine: It would first of all need to have an energy source, which is not entirely beyond the realms of possibility. The hard part comes when you have to manipulate materials at that size. You need to be able to unstick molecules from one place, attach them somehow to the manipulating device, then unstick it from that and attach it to the item being built. That is a significant problem to which there is no answer at present, and is unlikely to be overcome any time soon.
Can you think of any item outside of nature that is able to autonomously reproduce itself even at macro scale, where we well understand the materials properties and challenges involved?
Even if it were possible to produce such a self-replicating machine, they can't alter the fundamental laws of physics. They have to obey thermodynamics, so what do they do with the energy they are supposedly absorbing?
The whole premise is pretty nonsensical.
There was a report published by the Royal Society for the government a several years ago that looks in some detail at what is possible now and likely to be possible in the near future with nanotechnology. It's probably worth a read if you are interested in that subject, but otherwise you may find it a bit dry. You can find a copy here: http://www.nanotec.org.uk/report/Nano%20report%202...
The whole self replicating nanotechnology thing is entirely in the realm of science fiction, and is likely to stay there. The reason being that at the nano-scale, it becomes incredibly difficult to handle and manipulate materials. Things don't work in quite the same way as they do at the macro or even micro scale so you can't simply design a machine that works at normal size and expect to duplicate it thousands of times smaller. Surface effects dominate, as the surface area of objects is very large compared to their volume; in comparison macro scale objects have a relatively small surface area to volume ratio. Because of this, nano-particles tend to stick to each other and clump together. Quantum mechanics also start to become important at that size.
Consider what would be involved in a nano-scale machine creating another nano-scale machine: It would first of all need to have an energy source, which is not entirely beyond the realms of possibility. The hard part comes when you have to manipulate materials at that size. You need to be able to unstick molecules from one place, attach them somehow to the manipulating device, then unstick it from that and attach it to the item being built. That is a significant problem to which there is no answer at present, and is unlikely to be overcome any time soon.
Can you think of any item outside of nature that is able to autonomously reproduce itself even at macro scale, where we well understand the materials properties and challenges involved?
Even if it were possible to produce such a self-replicating machine, they can't alter the fundamental laws of physics. They have to obey thermodynamics, so what do they do with the energy they are supposedly absorbing?
The whole premise is pretty nonsensical.
There was a report published by the Royal Society for the government a several years ago that looks in some detail at what is possible now and likely to be possible in the near future with nanotechnology. It's probably worth a read if you are interested in that subject, but otherwise you may find it a bit dry. You can find a copy here: http://www.nanotec.org.uk/report/Nano%20report%202...
Edited by tank slapper on Friday 12th April 20:05
tank slapper said:
There are plot holes all over the place in that programme if you have any knowledge of science. How is it that firearms work with no problem whatsoever, but a basic diesel engine is completely unable to function? - there are plenty of engines which have no need for electricity as they are entirely mechanical in operation.
True enough. Most US diesels up until the mid 90s, and most Humvees, have mechanical fuel pumps and would have worked just fine. Any jet plane that didn't have electrical controls would also have continued to fly because jet engines don't need electricity. Diesel trains would still work. It strikes me that society would have regressed to just before the introduction of the electric telegraph in 1830 or so, a time when it was still possible to run a globe spanning empire. A rapid collapse into feudalism is unlikely.Edited by tank slapper on Friday 12th April 20:05
Tycho said:
I didn't bother with the series after seeing a jet crashing from a flat spin after the power went off but the navigation lights were still working...
If they couldn't be bothered getting that correct then there is no hope for the rest of the show.
Fair point, however I think it's generally classed as light entertainment rather than a factual documentary.If they couldn't be bothered getting that correct then there is no hope for the rest of the show.
Carrot said:
Tycho said:
I didn't bother with the series after seeing a jet crashing from a flat spin after the power went off but the navigation lights were still working...
If they couldn't be bothered getting that correct then there is no hope for the rest of the show.
Fair point, however I think it's generally classed as light entertainment rather than a factual documentary.If they couldn't be bothered getting that correct then there is no hope for the rest of the show.
Hooli said:
This is reminding me of another SF story where several UFOs are found underground & they emit a field that 'neutralises' electricity & eventually after an attack on them stop electricity working all over the world.
Anyone remember the name?
Sounds like Fade-Out, which I'm half way through. Git! Anyone remember the name?
LightningMcSteve said:
Hooli said:
This is reminding me of another SF story where several UFOs are found underground & they emit a field that 'neutralises' electricity & eventually after an attack on them stop electricity working all over the world.
Anyone remember the name?
Sounds like Fade-Out, which I'm half way through. Git! Anyone remember the name?
ks, sorry to ruin it. That does sound like the right title too.annodomini2 said:
If you stop electrostatic forces from working it would probably result in the entire planet collapsing into a black hole.
neutron star? Either way we're fairly fked closest you could get would be a massive series of EMP blasts, AFAICT hardened electronics and stuff not based on silicon transistors would survive (so a CRT could at least work in principle, as would the starter motor in a car). Anything relying on the sort of computers we're used to would be dead however. And Simpo Two is right - there's no way we could feed all 6 billion of us without most of the modern supply chain. Which is kind of worrying really.
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