Perpetual Motion. And "Free Energy"

[Mobsta]

I stumbled upon the video below, which isnt terribly exciting at first, but if you watch the video from the start, an engineering idea starts to develop, in phases, culminating in what (to me) looks like a working solution. But is it?

The machine introducted at 2 minutes, begs the question, is 'free energy' from a perpetual motion contraption possible, if you electric or hand push/start the device to get it going.

Surely this can be done on a larger scale. I want this machine (the one at 2 minutes) on my desk, charging my girlfriends vibrator mobile phone. Perpetually. Costing nothing. Is it possible?

Im sure the PH cynics (or them people wot are more cleverer than I am) will have some input.

The video is is here

If the machine was patented (it does seem to go on of its own accord) then who is preventing us plebs (like my butler and his family, I wouldn't mind one for curiosities sake) from selling cement mixer sized ones so people can install them in their homes.

[Puggit]

One word...

Friction

[Life Saab Itch]

Puggit said:

One word...

No

Edited for simplicity

[Mobsta]

Puggit said:

One word...

Friction

I thought as much. The machine (at 2 minutes) doesnt seem to slow down at all.

If the tiniest bit of energy was to keep it going, would a solar powered feed, contributing 1% of the total energy generated, not overcome this.

The magnetic force generated by the magnets, looks to be 50 times greater than the lifting force required to lift the top magnet, or the frictional force generated by the 'well oiled' heavy weight on a rod.

[Robb F]

Mobsta said:

thought as much. The machine (at 2 minutes) doesnt seem to slow down at all.

If the tiniest bit of energy was to keep it going, would a solar powered feed, contributing 1% of the total energy generated, not overcome this.

2 minutes isn't very long though is it?

And it may well do, but that's not perpetual motion. Its just motion.

have you tried this?

Edited by Robb F on Wednesday 14th November 23:10

Edited by Robb F on Wednesday 14th November 23:13

[Hoofy]

Falling cat with buttered toast strapped to his back, obviously.

[Mobsta]

Hoofy said:

Falling cat with buttered toast strapped to his back, obviously.

But that only works until the cat... dies. The energy required to rear a new cat/make new toast with fresh butter would cancel it out.

[Hoofy]

Mobsta said:

Hoofy said:

Falling cat with buttered toast strapped to his back, obviously.

But that only works until the cat... dies. The energy required to rear a new cat/make new toast with fresh butter would cancel it out.

You didn't spot the mini buttered crumpets glued to his paws.

[Tiger Tim]

Or just butter the toast on both sides? No need for a cat then.. or better still a perfectly spherical blob of butter.

[Mobsta]

Hoofy said:

Mobsta said:

Hoofy said:

Falling cat with buttered toast strapped to his back, obviously.

But that only works until the cat... dies. The energy required to rear a new cat/make new toast with fresh butter would cancel it out.

You didn't spot the mini buttered crumpets glued to his paws.

We'll file for a patent in the morning. If we nicked a cow to make butter, all we'd need is crumpets.

I swear by my underwear, the contraption had to be stopped, it didnt run out of steam.
He Stopped it! By his bare hand.

Surely with a drizzle of solar power, aside from the entropy factor, it could have gone on forever. Well, it looked like it would have...

[SpeckledJim]

Mobsta said:

Puggit said:

One word...

Friction

I thought as much. The machine (at 2 minutes) doesnt seem to slow down at all.

If the tiniest bit of energy was to keep it going, would a solar powered feed, contributing 1% of the total energy generated, not overcome this.

The magnetic force generated by the magnets, looks to be 50 times greater than the lifting force required to lift the top magnet, or the frictional force generated by the 'well oiled' heavy weight on a rod.

That tiniest bit of energy will keep you from your perpetual motion fortune. Can't be done.

If you're putting solar energy in to make it work, you're playing a different game.

[Hoofy]

Well, I just covered myself in butter and floated for 10 minutes. This time next year, Rodders...

[SpeckledJim]

Hoofy said:

Well, I just covered myself in butter and floated for 10 minutes. This time next year, Rodders...

'floated', is that what the kids are calling it these days?

[Bradgate]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermody...

The physical Law of Conservation of Energy is just about as fundamental as they come. Anyone who claims to have contravened it to produce a perpetual motion machine is almost certainly either :

a, mistaken
b, deluded or
c, a fraudster.

[Mobsta]

Bradgate said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermody...

The physical Law of Conservation of Energy is just about as fundamental as they come. Anyone who claims to have contravened it to produce a perpetual motion machine is almost certainly either :

a, mistaken
b, deluded or
c, a fraudster.

Now look here Mr Bradgate, or I'll call you a fraudster (and I'll raise my voice when I do!)...

What physical laws apply to two physical devices, which when combined, achieve the desired end result. Im not talking about shagging cats to get kittens, but if the power of the same model/style magnetic drive at the 2.00 minute marker, was coupled with solar contribution, were to be combined... could it not go on forever, with a small syphon of the energy generated by the magnetic drive (the free energy) if it was pushed back into motion by the solar drive. Or would that be like asking a cat to shag for 10 years without wearing out its hips or requiring any cat food?

I concede. Its possibly not possible. But it does look rather clever to me.

[iamAlegend]

Perpetual motion....maybe in a land without friction.

Using it to 'power' something else....impossible, as you would be taking energy out of the system.

The laws on conservation of energy should explain that the OP's video is not telling the truth!

[SpeckledJim]

Mobsta said:

Bradgate said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermody...

The physical Law of Conservation of Energy is just about as fundamental as they come. Anyone who claims to have contravened it to produce a perpetual motion machine is almost certainly either :

a, mistaken
b, deluded or
c, a fraudster.

Now look here Mr Bradgate, or I'll call you a fraudster (and I'll raise my voice when I do!)...

What physical laws apply to two physical devices, which when combined, achieve the desired end result. Im not talking about shagging cats to get kittens, but if the power of the same model/style magnetic drive at the 2.00 minute marker, was coupled with solar contribution, were to be combined... could it not go on forever, with a small syphon of the energy generated by the magnetic drive (the free energy) if it was pushed back into motion by the solar drive. Or would that be like asking a cat to shag for 10 years without wearing out its hips or requiring any cat food?

I concede. Its possibly not possible. But it does look rather clever to me.

If you're allowing a 'solar contribution', then every sort of machine could go on forever. That's not perpetual motion though.

No devices, combined or not, achieve your desired result. It is impossible. A few posters have referred to friction, but you haven't addressed their point.

What energy do you think is being generated by the magnetic drive?

[Robb F]

Mobsta said:

ow look here Mr Bradgate, or I'll call you a fraudster (and I'll raise my voice when I do!)...

What physical laws apply to two physical devices, which when combined, achieve the desired end result. Im not talking about shagging cats to get kittens, but if the power of the same model/style magnetic drive at the 2.00 minute marker, was coupled with solar contribution, were to be combined... could it not go on forever, with a small syphon of the energy generated by the magnetic drive (the free energy) if it was pushed back into motion by the solar drive. Or would that be like asking a cat to shag for 10 years without wearing out its hips or requiring any cat food?

I concede. Its possibly definitely not possible. But it does look rather clever to me.

What happens when the sun explodes?

And again, you're just talking about highly efficient motion, which is 100% not perpetual motion.

[Simpo Two]

SpeckledJim said:

If you're allowing a 'solar contribution', then every sort of machine could go on forever.

Indeed, you could just have a solar panel and a small electric motor, and omit the rotating magnetron drive with DVLC (TM) and ferro-nitrous bearings in their bath of liquid helium.

I am quite astonished anyone here still bangs on about PM. 'Free energy' is one thing (ie energy you don't have to pay for), but PM is 'extra energy'. What is the source of the extra energy; where is it coming from?

[hairykrishna]

Mobsta said:

thought as much. The machine (at 2 minutes) doesnt seem to slow down at all.

If the tiniest bit of energy was to keep it going, would a solar powered feed, contributing 1% of the total energy generated, not overcome this.

The magnetic force generated by the magnets, looks to be 50 times greater than the lifting force required to lift the top magnet, or the frictional force generated by the 'well oiled' heavy weight on a rod.

It's initial configuration has some potential energy, like a wound up spring. The builder has put this in by hand by positioning the various magnets. It's only losses are friction i.e. that's the only work it's doing. The initial 'charge' of energy is probably enough to run it for a very long time is it has good bearings etc. You could of course overcome these small losses by driving it with something external like solar and it would run 'forever'.

As soon as you try to extract work, for example driving a generator, you would find that the amount of power you needed to put in from the external source to keep it running forever would go up by the same amount. There's nothing in there generating power.