Could we knock Europa out of orbit?
Discussion
dibbers006 said:
After having the latest update on the whole Vostok ice lake situation.
I followed up the ice theme to Europa, moon of Jupiter. Which by all accounts seems to be in a similar scenario where life could exist underneath all the frozenscape.
So my rather unscientific question is, would it be possible to pull Europa out of its orbit and bring it nearer the Sun, which could make it inhabitable?... maybe
Apparently it is 0.008 Earths Mass, so I think our orbit would be unaffected if we lassoed Europa, but what about if we put a massive explosion on it, could we overcome it's gravity/ pull to Jupiter with the forces available to humans and technology constraints currently? Could we effectively navigate it nearer the sun through some sort of propulsion?
It is theortically possible to change the orbit of a body in the solar system, but from a technology and engineering standpoint we couldn't do it. You wouldn't be able to do it with a single impusle event such as an explosion. It would need to be speeded up to escape it's orbit of Jupiter, then slowed down again to enter an orbit nearer the sun. The amount of reaction mass required to change it's orbit would be a significant proportion of the mass of Europa. I followed up the ice theme to Europa, moon of Jupiter. Which by all accounts seems to be in a similar scenario where life could exist underneath all the frozenscape.
So my rather unscientific question is, would it be possible to pull Europa out of its orbit and bring it nearer the Sun, which could make it inhabitable?... maybe
Apparently it is 0.008 Earths Mass, so I think our orbit would be unaffected if we lassoed Europa, but what about if we put a massive explosion on it, could we overcome it's gravity/ pull to Jupiter with the forces available to humans and technology constraints currently? Could we effectively navigate it nearer the sun through some sort of propulsion?
Assuming we did find a technical solution for moving it, Europa's gravity is too small to retain it's water if it were to be brought to a place closer to the Sun that would allow liquid water to exist on the surface. The speed at which water vapour molecules move would be in excess of it's escape velocity. So it would not be permanently habitable.
Possible but the energy requirements are ridiculous, more convenient to build a space station and generate artificial gravity through rotation.
Secondly, if you move it closer to the sun, the water is going to heat up, Europa's magnetic field comes from interaction with Jupiter.
So the magnetic field would go and due to the Solar wind the ocean that forms would eventually be blown off into space.
Secondly, if you move it closer to the sun, the water is going to heat up, Europa's magnetic field comes from interaction with Jupiter.
So the magnetic field would go and due to the Solar wind the ocean that forms would eventually be blown off into space.
dibbers006 said:
A question that keeps coming to mind about this is the contamination issue. The scientists all seem very concerned about outside world elements getting into the under world. But with some of the cores they have extracted they quite happily hold them with mittens on breathing near it.
Could the microbes or bacteria (whatever) from beneath cause issue when they contaminate our world (above the ice)?
I don't understand why it is so one way protected. They say the drilling is dirty, but are not the drill bits coming back up with 'things'.
I think the contamination issue is more to do with a "1st discovery" and any form, be it a simple virus type or bacterium being an actual exa earth organism.Could the microbes or bacteria (whatever) from beneath cause issue when they contaminate our world (above the ice)?
I don't understand why it is so one way protected. They say the drilling is dirty, but are not the drill bits coming back up with 'things'.
Look at the debate around meterorite ALH48000, I think it was. I would also work the other way too with a virus/bacterium having a potential to wipe out speices on earth, we always think of humans in that regard but say it affected wheat rice or cattle.
Imagine the chaos if say 70% of the worlds rice production was wiped out after 6-8 months.
The effect of Jupiter and the other Galilean satellites causes internal heat which is believed to be the cause of the liquid water on Europa. Remove this influence and it would freeze. Also causes the volcanism on Io.
It is also thought that Titan may become a potential future home when the sun goes red giant.
You would also need a lot of energy to blast a moon out of orbit - especially around something as massive as Jupiter.
It is also thought that Titan may become a potential future home when the sun goes red giant.
You would also need a lot of energy to blast a moon out of orbit - especially around something as massive as Jupiter.
As far as we know, Venus is the only other planet in the solar system that a human could survive on without a spacesuit. Not on the surface obviously, but about 50km up in the atmosphere the pressure is 1 earth atmosphere and the temperature in the 25-30 deg c range. Obviously it's largely CO2 so you would need an oxygen mask, but nevertheless a nice place to go on a ballooning holiday.
Caruso said:
As far as we know, Venus is the only other planet in the solar system that a human could survive on without a spacesuit. Not on the surface obviously, but about 50km up in the atmosphere the pressure is 1 earth atmosphere and the temperature in the 25-30 deg c range. Obviously it's largely CO2 so you would need an oxygen mask, but nevertheless a nice place to go on a ballooning holiday.
Given the atmosphere of Venus at that altitude contains sulphuric acid clouds, rather you than me!Caruso said:
As far as we know, Venus is the only other planet in the solar system that a human could survive on without a spacesuit. Not on the surface obviously, but about 50km up in the atmosphere the pressure is 1 earth atmosphere and the temperature in the 25-30 deg c range. Obviously it's largely CO2 so you would need an oxygen mask, but nevertheless a nice place to go on a ballooning holiday.
That reminds me of a dicussion I had about Jupiter recently. If you were to fall/parachute into Jupiter's atmosphere, would you simply fall into its gaseous depths and be crushed, or would you float at a level equivalent to your own density?This article suggests moving moons ( And Earth! )
From an old BBC web page http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1154784....
Our Sun will increase its brightness in the next billion years or so, and if the Earth stays in its present orbit it will be fried and all life eliminated.
Using the well-understood "gravitational sling shot" technique that has been employed to send space probes to the outer planets, the researchers now think a large asteroid could be used to reposition the Earth. All that is required is for a large asteroid, about 100 km (62 miles) across, to fly past the Earth transferring some of its orbital energy to our planet. The asteroid would then move out to encounter Jupiter where it would acquire more energy that it could impart to the Earth on a subsequent encounter.But it would be a procedure that required some care. If the 100 km asteroid was to collide with the Earth then it would wipe out all life on our planet. "This danger cannot be overemphasised," the researchers stress.Perhaps, the authors suggest, many moons and planets could be moved into more favourable positions in the Solar System where their climates might support life
So there you go, get a few asteriods whizzing around the solar system like billard balls and you could save Earth from our dying Sun and move it's orbit further out. I have been told though, that we would first have to move Mars out of the way, in case the Earth collides with it. Also, we might save the Earth, but we might also end up loosing the moon. Glad I won't be around to worry about this stuff.
From an old BBC web page http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1154784....
Our Sun will increase its brightness in the next billion years or so, and if the Earth stays in its present orbit it will be fried and all life eliminated.
Using the well-understood "gravitational sling shot" technique that has been employed to send space probes to the outer planets, the researchers now think a large asteroid could be used to reposition the Earth. All that is required is for a large asteroid, about 100 km (62 miles) across, to fly past the Earth transferring some of its orbital energy to our planet. The asteroid would then move out to encounter Jupiter where it would acquire more energy that it could impart to the Earth on a subsequent encounter.But it would be a procedure that required some care. If the 100 km asteroid was to collide with the Earth then it would wipe out all life on our planet. "This danger cannot be overemphasised," the researchers stress.Perhaps, the authors suggest, many moons and planets could be moved into more favourable positions in the Solar System where their climates might support life
So there you go, get a few asteriods whizzing around the solar system like billard balls and you could save Earth from our dying Sun and move it's orbit further out. I have been told though, that we would first have to move Mars out of the way, in case the Earth collides with it. Also, we might save the Earth, but we might also end up loosing the moon. Glad I won't be around to worry about this stuff.
Simpo Two said:
That reminds me of a dicussion I had about Jupiter recently. If you were to fall/parachute into Jupiter's atmosphere, would you simply fall into its gaseous depths and be crushed, or would you float at a level equivalent to your own density?
Your heavily irradiated remains would float at a level equivalent to your own density.One thing to bear in mind about entering Jupiter's atmosphere is that at the equator it is moving at about 50,000mph compared to your likely interplanetary cruise speed of about 25,000mph. So you need to carefully pick which latitude you enter at, and that you enter in a spinwise direction. Otherwise your heavily irradiated remains will be burned to a crisp by the radiated heat from the compressed gas shockwave ahead of your craft.
Did I mention that the radiation environment around Jupiter is rather bad for your health?
Caruso said:
our heavily irradiated remains would float at a level equivalent to your own density.
One thing to bear in mind about entering Jupiter's atmosphere is that at the equator it is moving at about 50,000mph compared to your likely interplanetary cruise speed of about 25,000mph. So you need to carefully pick which latitude you enter at, and that you enter in a spinwise direction. Otherwise your heavily irradiated remains will be burned to a crisp by the radiated heat from the compressed gas shockwave ahead of your craft.
Thanks for the relative speed warning; I'll be careful to go in at about 45 degrees latitude!One thing to bear in mind about entering Jupiter's atmosphere is that at the equator it is moving at about 50,000mph compared to your likely interplanetary cruise speed of about 25,000mph. So you need to carefully pick which latitude you enter at, and that you enter in a spinwise direction. Otherwise your heavily irradiated remains will be burned to a crisp by the radiated heat from the compressed gas shockwave ahead of your craft.
As for the radiation, I shall go in a lead ship. It will mean I float slightly slower down but that's OK.
Viva Jules Verne!
Edited by Simpo Two on Friday 3rd February 23:22
Caruso said:
our heavily irradiated remains would float at a level equivalent to your own density.
One thing to bear in mind about entering Jupiter's atmosphere is that at the equator it is moving at about 50,000mph compared to your likely interplanetary cruise speed of about 25,000mph. So you need to carefully pick which latitude you enter at, and that you enter in a spinwise direction. Otherwise your heavily irradiated remains will be burned to a crisp by the radiated heat from the compressed gas shockwave ahead of your craft.
Did I mention that the radiation environment around Jupiter is rather bad for your health?
Thanks for this i'm finding it somewhat funnier than i shouldOne thing to bear in mind about entering Jupiter's atmosphere is that at the equator it is moving at about 50,000mph compared to your likely interplanetary cruise speed of about 25,000mph. So you need to carefully pick which latitude you enter at, and that you enter in a spinwise direction. Otherwise your heavily irradiated remains will be burned to a crisp by the radiated heat from the compressed gas shockwave ahead of your craft.
Did I mention that the radiation environment around Jupiter is rather bad for your health?
annodomini2 said:
Caruso said:
As far as we know, Venus is the only other planet in the solar system that a human could survive on without a spacesuit. Not on the surface obviously, but about 50km up in the atmosphere the pressure is 1 earth atmosphere and the temperature in the 25-30 deg c range. Obviously it's largely CO2 so you would need an oxygen mask, but nevertheless a nice place to go on a ballooning holiday.
Given the atmosphere of Venus at that altitude contains sulphuric acid clouds, rather you than me!
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