The Moon Mission
Discussion
Right.
I’m talking about the sixties.
No Carbon Fibre. No CFD. Little knowledge about aerodynamics. No advanced Electrical Systems (I’m talking about the phone)
And this massive firework just set off and travelled all those miles. What is it nearly 300 K?
Stopped right on point.Ejected a capsule. Lowered one man down onto a place that was little understood. Perfectly took off again.
Used gravity to get back?
I’m going to look this up.
I’m sure Werner Von Braun said that the fuel to get there would be impossible
Think again.
The sixties remember.
I’m talking about the sixties.
No Carbon Fibre. No CFD. Little knowledge about aerodynamics. No advanced Electrical Systems (I’m talking about the phone)
And this massive firework just set off and travelled all those miles. What is it nearly 300 K?
Stopped right on point.Ejected a capsule. Lowered one man down onto a place that was little understood. Perfectly took off again.
Used gravity to get back?
I’m going to look this up.
I’m sure Werner Von Braun said that the fuel to get there would be impossible
Think again.
The sixties remember.
Jim H said:
Right.
I’m talking about the sixties.
No Carbon Fibre. No CFD. Little knowledge about aerodynamics. No advanced Electrical Systems (I’m talking about the phone)
And this massive firework just set off and travelled all those miles. What is it nearly 300 K?
Stopped right on point.Ejected a capsule. Lowered one man down onto a place that was little understood. Perfectly took off again.
Used gravity to get back?
I’m going to look this up.
I’m sure Werner Von Braun said that the fuel to get there would be impossible
Think again.
The sixties remember.
Your invented physicist can explain the rocket equation to you if you do actually have any interest in learning about this.I’m talking about the sixties.
No Carbon Fibre. No CFD. Little knowledge about aerodynamics. No advanced Electrical Systems (I’m talking about the phone)
And this massive firework just set off and travelled all those miles. What is it nearly 300 K?
Stopped right on point.Ejected a capsule. Lowered one man down onto a place that was little understood. Perfectly took off again.
Used gravity to get back?
I’m going to look this up.
I’m sure Werner Von Braun said that the fuel to get there would be impossible
Think again.
The sixties remember.
Your argument is based on your personal incredulity. If we could only manage what thick people think works then very little of the modern world would work as it dies
Jim H said:
Right.
I’m talking about the sixties.
No Carbon Fibre. No CFD. Little knowledge about aerodynamics. No advanced Electrical Systems (I’m talking about the phone)
And this massive firework just set off and travelled all those miles. What is it nearly 300 K?
Stopped right on point.Ejected a capsule. Lowered one man down onto a place that was little understood. Perfectly took off again.
Used gravity to get back?
I’m going to look this up.
I’m sure Werner Von Braun said that the fuel to get there would be impossible
Think again.
The sixties remember.
As Michael Collins said, 'going to the moon was difficult'.I’m talking about the sixties.
No Carbon Fibre. No CFD. Little knowledge about aerodynamics. No advanced Electrical Systems (I’m talking about the phone)
And this massive firework just set off and travelled all those miles. What is it nearly 300 K?
Stopped right on point.Ejected a capsule. Lowered one man down onto a place that was little understood. Perfectly took off again.
Used gravity to get back?
I’m going to look this up.
I’m sure Werner Von Braun said that the fuel to get there would be impossible
Think again.
The sixties remember.
Jim H said:
Right.
I’m talking about the sixties.
No Carbon Fibre.
Of course there was - even in the 1860's.I’m talking about the sixties.
No Carbon Fibre.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fibers#Histor...
Little knowledge of aerodynamics 
Suggest you look at fighter/reconnaissance aircraft developed in the 1960s, not to mention missiles/other rockets. The Apollo program cost $257 billion in today's money.
It pushed the envelope significantly, and was on the cutting/bleeding edge of what was possible for the time period. It was also a risky endeavour- the initiator for starting the engine on the moon's surface to begin the return journey had no backup- if it didn't work, the astronauts would have been screwed. A rescue mission would have been exceedingly unlikely.
Much of the cost and resources were dedicated to testing- test, test, test was a way to ensure best chance of success.
Remember, the crew of Apollo 1 tragically perished in a fire on the launch pad. Manned space exploration is dangerous, high stakes stuff- risky and extremely expensive.
Suggest you look at fighter/reconnaissance aircraft developed in the 1960s, not to mention missiles/other rockets. The Apollo program cost $257 billion in today's money.
It pushed the envelope significantly, and was on the cutting/bleeding edge of what was possible for the time period. It was also a risky endeavour- the initiator for starting the engine on the moon's surface to begin the return journey had no backup- if it didn't work, the astronauts would have been screwed. A rescue mission would have been exceedingly unlikely.
Much of the cost and resources were dedicated to testing- test, test, test was a way to ensure best chance of success.
Remember, the crew of Apollo 1 tragically perished in a fire on the launch pad. Manned space exploration is dangerous, high stakes stuff- risky and extremely expensive.
Jim H said:
Right.
I’m talking about the sixties.
No Carbon Fibre. No CFD. Little knowledge about aerodynamics. No advanced Electrical Systems (I’m talking about the phone)
And this massive firework just set off and travelled all those miles. What is it nearly 300 K?
Stopped right on point.Ejected a capsule. Lowered one man down onto a place that was little understood. Perfectly took off again.
Used gravity to get back?
I’m going to look this up.
I’m sure Werner Von Braun said that the fuel to get there would be impossible
Think again.
The sixties remember.
1) Aerodynamics were exceedingly well understood in the 1960’s.I’m talking about the sixties.
No Carbon Fibre. No CFD. Little knowledge about aerodynamics. No advanced Electrical Systems (I’m talking about the phone)
And this massive firework just set off and travelled all those miles. What is it nearly 300 K?
Stopped right on point.Ejected a capsule. Lowered one man down onto a place that was little understood. Perfectly took off again.
Used gravity to get back?
I’m going to look this up.
I’m sure Werner Von Braun said that the fuel to get there would be impossible
Think again.
The sixties remember.
2) Look at what else was made then & works, with lots of evidence that it did.
The bottom image is the Polaris missile system.
Submarine launched intercontinental ballistic missile.
No GPS.
The 60’s remember.
Oh and the 747 first flew before 1970.
While I suspect I shouldn’t, I’ll bite.
Jet aircraft had been going supersonic for quite a while, how much aero do you need to go somewhere there’s no air most of the way.
They literally designed the integrated circuit as part of the Apollo program. Yes it was highly limited by today’s measure but it was bloody clever and did the job.
Big target the moon. Fairly easy to predict where it’s going to be. Mr Kepler and Mr Newton got orbital mechanics worked out in the 1600s.
Two men landed. The landing was hairy because they were not where they were supposed to be - very nearly ran out of fuel. And yes, there were protocols for immediate lift off if the surface was actually deep dust that would swamp the lander. It was not.
I seem to remember the take off switch broke and had to be rigged, which must have been a slight worry.
The SR-71 first flew in 1964.
Aeronautics was developing at quite the pace. The 60’s weren’t steam powered.
Jim H said:
No Carbon Fibre. No CFD. Little knowledge about aerodynamics. No advanced Electrical Systems (I’m talking about the phone)
Aluminium is a fine material. We had slide rules and blackboards. Jet aircraft had been going supersonic for quite a while, how much aero do you need to go somewhere there’s no air most of the way.
They literally designed the integrated circuit as part of the Apollo program. Yes it was highly limited by today’s measure but it was bloody clever and did the job.
Jim H said:
And this massive firework just set off and travelled all those miles. What is it nearly 300 K?
Technically, 3 massive fireworks stacked on each other. Big target the moon. Fairly easy to predict where it’s going to be. Mr Kepler and Mr Newton got orbital mechanics worked out in the 1600s.
Jim H said:
Stopped right on point.Ejected a capsule. Lowered one man down onto a place that was little understood. Perfectly took off again.
Didn’t stop. Entered orbit (or “fell round the planet at high speed”)Two men landed. The landing was hairy because they were not where they were supposed to be - very nearly ran out of fuel. And yes, there were protocols for immediate lift off if the surface was actually deep dust that would swamp the lander. It was not.
I seem to remember the take off switch broke and had to be rigged, which must have been a slight worry.
Jim H said:
Used gravity to get back?
I don’t understand the question I’m afraid. Jim H said:
I’m going to look this up.
Which bit?Jim H said:
I’m sure Werner Von Braun said that the fuel to get there would be impossible
He may have done. I’d like a reference and context (and date). If he did, he was incorrect and would certainly have altered his view as new evidence/technology was available. Jim H said:
The sixties remember.
The U2 first flew in 1955. It required a space suit to operate. The SR-71 first flew in 1964.
Aeronautics was developing at quite the pace. The 60’s weren’t steam powered.
As an aside, I found Kevin Fong’s “13 minutes to the moon” very interesting indeed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p083t547
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p083t547
Jim H said:
Right.
I’m talking about the sixties.
No Carbon Fibre. No CFD. Little knowledge about aerodynamics. No advanced Electrical Systems (I’m talking about the phone)
And this massive firework just set off and travelled all those miles. What is it nearly 300 K?
Stopped right on point.Ejected a capsule. Lowered one man down onto a place that was little understood. Perfectly took off again.
Used gravity to get back?
I’m going to look this up.
I’m sure Werner Von Braun said that the fuel to get there would be impossible
Think again.
The sixties remember.
Perhaps stop digging. Next you'll be looking for explanations for the flag wave after the astronaut walked near it @ 2:37 as opposed to the obvious reasons this would happen in a vacuum:I’m talking about the sixties.
No Carbon Fibre. No CFD. Little knowledge about aerodynamics. No advanced Electrical Systems (I’m talking about the phone)
And this massive firework just set off and travelled all those miles. What is it nearly 300 K?
Stopped right on point.Ejected a capsule. Lowered one man down onto a place that was little understood. Perfectly took off again.
Used gravity to get back?
I’m going to look this up.
I’m sure Werner Von Braun said that the fuel to get there would be impossible
Think again.
The sixties remember.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymwE1sNm82Y
Mr E said:
As an aside, I found Kevin Fong’s “13 minutes to the moon” very interesting indeed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p083t547
Yes, that's an excellent serieshttps://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p083t547
Mr E said:
As an aside, I found Kevin Fong’s “13 minutes to the moon” very interesting indeed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p083t547
I listened to this recently and agree, it was very good.https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p083t547
Out of interest, how were ballistic missiles targeted to hit cities 1000s of miles away as there weren't GPS?
GPS weren't available to the general public in the early 90s around the time of the Gulf War.
I read that as the US had it but the Iraqis didn't, it gave the American tanks an extreme advantage in the desert.
GPS weren't available to the general public in the early 90s around the time of the Gulf War.
I read that as the US had it but the Iraqis didn't, it gave the American tanks an extreme advantage in the desert.
croyde said:
Out of interest, how were ballistic missiles targeted to hit cities 1000s of miles away as there weren't GPS?
GPS weren't available to the general public in the early 90s around the time of the Gulf War.
I read that as the US had it but the Iraqis didn't, it gave the American tanks an extreme advantage in the desert.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_SystemGPS weren't available to the general public in the early 90s around the time of the Gulf War.
I read that as the US had it but the Iraqis didn't, it gave the American tanks an extreme advantage in the desert.
croyde said:
Out of interest, how were ballistic missiles targeted to hit cities 1000s of miles away as there weren't GPS?
GPS weren't available to the general public in the early 90s around the time of the Gulf War.
I read that as the US had it but the Iraqis didn't, it gave the American tanks an extreme advantage in the desert.
We have understood ballistics for quite a while -GPS weren't available to the general public in the early 90s around the time of the Gulf War.
I read that as the US had it but the Iraqis didn't, it gave the American tanks an extreme advantage in the desert.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projectile_motion
croyde said:
Out of interest, how were ballistic missiles targeted to hit cities 1000s of miles away as there weren't GPS?
I just looked up the V2:'The trajectory of the V2 was only controllable during the launch period through the use of two gyroscopes, one for stabilisation and the other for guidance that would steer the four graphite rudders and vanes. The V2 would reach a predetermined velocity in which the guidance system would shut down. This would then start the parabolic free-fall back to earth and to its target. At this point there was no way to alter its course and it would be susceptible to drift, side winds, headwinds, and tailwinds – which meant it could fall anywhere within a 25 km radius from its expected target.'
https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/blog/v2rocket#:~:t...
That was WW2 technology. With a nuclear warhead, 25 km is near enough though I'm sure the systems developed greatly post-war.
Maybe Amundsen didn't reach the South Pole either. I mean, just a few dogs and no satnav?
The Polaris Missile system, B-52, SR-71, U-2 etc used a star light solid state system that corrected the inertial guidance system.
It’s an astonishing system that’s EMP hardened.
It varies across applications but here’s a good description of it:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/a-12-sr-7...
It was developed for Skybolt. A air launched stand off nuclear missile system that was rendered superfluous by Polaris.
It’s an astonishing system that’s EMP hardened.
It varies across applications but here’s a good description of it:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/a-12-sr-7...
It was developed for Skybolt. A air launched stand off nuclear missile system that was rendered superfluous by Polaris.
Gassing Station | Science! | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff