Saturn V anecdote

[Eric Mc]

RobDickinson said:

Liquid fueled rocket like what we are talking about.

Try one of those without a fuel pump.

There are a number of liquid fueled rockets that don't need fuel pumps to get the fuel into the combustion chamber. Some liquid fueled rocket motors make use of pressurised gas (usually helium or nitrogen) to force the fuel and oxidiser into the combustion chamber. Pressurised gas systems are quite common (the Falcon 9 makes use of such as system as did the Apollo Lunar Module and the XLR-11 engines fitted to early versions of the Bell X-1 research aircraft.

[Eric Mc]

Zirconia said:

I find a few good documentaries make their way to Apple iTunes, although I have recorded many of these in the last few days I think I shall get a few digital copies if they get to iTunes. Then Take my time. Price depending of course.

I have the Saturn V tests on DVD, a firm called Spacecraft Films put then to gather from NASA footage (hells bells, just checked the prices 2nd hand!!!! might not be on sale anymore). They are rather good and no commentary if memory serves but DVD, not sure if they have had a bump to Blu-ray. A lot of what I have seen in the recent TV stuff comes from footage available (not all easy to get admittedly).
This does need airing.
https://apolloinrealtime.org/11/

Personally I keep an eye on threads like this as you get some great info and insights.

I have the Spacecraft Films DVDs on both the Saturn V and the Saturn I. The Saturn I is particularly interesting as it is the Saturn I project that provides the direct link between the moon rocket and the Redstone/V2.

[RobDickinson]

Eric Mc said:

There are a number of liquid fueled rockets that don't need fuel pumps to get the fuel into the combustion chamber. Some liquid fueled rocket motors make use of pressurised gas (usually helium or nitrogen) to force the fuel and oxidiser into the combustion chamber. Pressurised gas systems are quite common (the Falcon 9 makes use of such as system as did the Apollo Lunar Module and the XLR-11 engines fitted to early versions of the Bell X-1 research aircraft.

You are loosing it? The merlin are gas generator engines. They do have fuel pumps. The dracos don't.



But in the saturn V thread specifically talking about the saturn V and f1 engines I didn't think I needed to qualify every word.

[Eric Mc]

Well - when what you say is a bit vague and easy to misinterpret, then a more detailed explanation of what you meant might be required.

Not all rocket motors require fuel pumps. The heart of a rocket motor is the combustion chamber and the engine bell as it is those components that ultimately determine the performance of the rocket. How the fuel and oxidiser gets to the combustion chamber is a secondary matter and will vary depending on what the engineers are trying to achieve.

The turbopumps on the Space Shuttle Main Engines are really impressive.

[Gary C]

RobDickinson said:

RobDickinson said:

The fuel pump is effectively the rocket engine though.

I didn't say rocket. I said rocket engine, wrt to the ones on the saturn V.

Ok. You phrase it very oddly. I would argue the fuel pump is part of this rocket engine rather than 'is the rocket engine'.

And what a fuel pump.

Edited by Gary C on Thursday 18th July 16:44

[Eric Mc]

May Caterham has a fuel pump too - but it's not the engine.

[C350]

Gary C said:

320,000 litres in ~25 seconds

Just for comparison, the high speed pumps at the dairy where I deliver to take 45 mins to unload 26,000 litres!
So the Saturn V pumps would unload it in about 2 seconds
I can’t get my head around that, it’s mind bending

[Eric Mc]

What was the flow rate for the Shuttle Main Engine turbopumps?

[MartG]

RIP Chris Kraft

https://www.nasa.gov/chris-kraft

[Eric Mc]

Really sad to hear. I guess he couldn't have passed away on a better day -the day after the 50th anniversary of the crowning glory of the Mission Control system he invented.

His book "Flight" is well worth a read.

[kuro]

Just heard about Chris Kraft this morning. Rip

[Zirconia]

Just read elsewhere.

There was a picture on twitter recently of the re built control room with flight directors that could make it there. Getting empty now.

[Eric Mc]

His original control centre was "Mercury Control" which was based at Cape Canaveral. It was used for all the Mercury missions and a couple of the early Gemini flights. It closed once the Houston Centre opened.

Mercury Control was refurbished and restored a few years ago and is now a museum. This is the prototype of all space Mission Control centres and you will see the same basic layout in all the control centres that now exist around the world. Kraft was instrumental in designing this -




When it was restored, they had to move it to anew building as the original building was riddled with asbestos and was deemed unsafe for public access.

[Zirconia]

Sort of fitting. Day 8.
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/81443036

Aforementioned tweet form Johnson Space Centre

https://twitter.com/NASA_Johnson/status/1152706722...

Edited by Zirconia on Tuesday 23 July 09:31

[Gary C]

C350 said:

Gary C said:

320,000 litres in ~25 seconds

Just for comparison, the high speed pumps at the dairy where I deliver to take 45 mins to unload 26,000 litres!
So the Saturn V pumps would unload it in about 2 seconds
I can’t get my head around that, it’s mind bending

We do have four cooling water pumps, each pump delivers about 14 tonnes per second which is about the same flow rate as an F1 turbopump, but these pumps are about 15 feet high with their 11,000 Volt motors and weigh several tonnes. Not sure that would cut it as a rocket fuel pump

[Halmyre]

C350 said:

Gary C said:

320,000 litres in ~25 seconds

Just for comparison, the high speed pumps at the dairy where I deliver to take 45 mins to unload 26,000 litres!
So the Saturn V pumps would unload it in about 2 seconds
I can’t get my head around that, it’s mind bending

My dad used to drive a tanker collecting malt whisky from distilleries to use for blending. Flow rates could best be described as 'leisurely'.

Turbopumps are mind-boggling, not just from the flow rates but from the low temperatures involved, with all the inherent problems.

[Zirconia]

Wasn't sure where to put this.
http://apollo13realtime.org
Starts a few minutes before the accident and runs for around six hours. Quite an insight to how it unfolded.
Not in the same display format as Apollo 17 and 11 and I am not sure it is the same fellow, there is a link to GitHub and looking like this has been up for a year or so.

[Eric Mc]

Zirconia said:

Wasn't sure where to put this.
http://apollo13realtime.org
Starts a few minutes before the accident and runs for around six hours. Quite an insight to how it unfolded.
Not in the same display format as Apollo 17 and 11 and I am not sure it is the same fellow, there is a link to GitHub and looking like this has been up for a year or so.

This Apollo 13 real time was put onto You Tube a few years ago. It contains the Flight Director's Loop so you get all the chat and speculation between the various controllers at Houston.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWfnY9cRXO4&t=...

[Zirconia]

I avoid the tube of you usually. Only came across this following Ben Feist on twitter.

[Eric Mc]

Why do you avoid You Tube? To me it's just another TV channel. Yes - there is plenty of rubbish on there but there are also tons of really interesting and intelligent channels covering space, aviation, science and engineering in general.

If it's the comments section that upsets you, don't read them. Indeed, if you view You Tube through the TV app version, reading the comments is generally not possible anyway - so it really is just like another TV channel.