The Moon Mission
Discussion
Skeptisk said:
A common theme of conspiracy theories is that they posit something can’t be true because “too difficult or they point out something they think is inconsistent ” yet the alternative is normally much more difficult and riddled with inconsistencies. In this case the alternative is that the Americans managed to lie about the landings, fool the whole world, keep it secret despite hundreds of thousands being involved in the project and keep it secret forever. Really? Beggars belief. But then that is common with most such theories. Currently around 50% of voters in the US believe that Trump is suitable to be the president again (despite Trump being Trump and his record). It seems that a significant number of people lack any semblance of critical faculties.
The Trump thing just shows how scared we should be of the average American's thinking.Although saying that I used to go out with a girl in LA and her dad was an ardent Republican. He hated Trump but hated the Democrats even more.
Just shows how bad a two party system can be, good job we have no such thing over here....
Hang on?
Jim H said:
Steady on chap.
I’m talking about actual Manned vehicles.
The Hubble repair was about at the limit of what was possible for the Shuttle.
Jim - I don't want to sound rude, but your post exhibits a dramatic level of ignorance on the subject. I’m talking about actual Manned vehicles.
The Hubble repair was about at the limit of what was possible for the Shuttle.
Firstly, I would suggest that this post might be better answered if it was moved to the Science Forum of PH as the topic has been covered many times over there and there are lots of well informed people who post on spaceflight in that forum.
Secondly, reading up on the subject really does help educate a person. There are literally hundreds of books on the whole history of spaceflight - both manned and unmanned. I would highly recommend that you take a few months out from posting nonsense on this topic and then come back when you have a better grounding in both the science, technology and history of the subject.
We have sent dozens of spacecraft much further than the moon over the past 60 years. A number have already left the Solar System and are now into interstellar space.
It's true that no humans have been beyond low earth orbit since but 1972 but that will be ending very soon - definitely within the next five years.
As for the technology available in the 1960s and 70s - there was enough technology around to allow manned missions to the moon back then. We have newer technology available today which will be used next time around which supersedes to some extent the technology of earlier eras but that does not mean older technology could not work.
The advent of diesel locomotives did not mean that steam engines couldn't have worked.
Eric Mc said:
Jim - I don't want to sound rude, but your post exhibits a dramatic level of ignorance on the subject.
Firstly, I would suggest that this post might be better answered if it was moved to the Science Forum of PH as the topic has been covered many times over there and there are lots of well informed people who post on spaceflight in that forum.
Secondly, reading up on the subject really does help educate a person. There are literally hundreds of books on the whole history of spaceflight - both manned and unmanned. I would highly recommend that you take a few months out from posting nonsense on this topic and then come back when you have a better grounding in both the science, technology and history of the subject.
We have sent dozens of spacecraft much further than the moon over the past 60 years. A number have already left the Solar System and are now into interstellar space.
It's true that no humans have been beyond low earth orbit since but 1972 but that will be ending very soon - definitely within the next five years.
As for the technology available in the 1960s and 70s - there was enough technology around to allow manned missions to the moon back then. We have newer technology available today which will be used next time around which supersedes to some extent the technology of earlier eras but that does not mean older technology could not work.
The advent of diesel locomotives did not mean that steam engines couldn't have worked.
Although computers and newer materials will have had an impact, the underlying technology has not changed that much. To get things into space we still stick things on top of a massive firework (and cross our fingers it doesn’t blow up). I don’t think there are any (practically) realistic alternatives.Firstly, I would suggest that this post might be better answered if it was moved to the Science Forum of PH as the topic has been covered many times over there and there are lots of well informed people who post on spaceflight in that forum.
Secondly, reading up on the subject really does help educate a person. There are literally hundreds of books on the whole history of spaceflight - both manned and unmanned. I would highly recommend that you take a few months out from posting nonsense on this topic and then come back when you have a better grounding in both the science, technology and history of the subject.
We have sent dozens of spacecraft much further than the moon over the past 60 years. A number have already left the Solar System and are now into interstellar space.
It's true that no humans have been beyond low earth orbit since but 1972 but that will be ending very soon - definitely within the next five years.
As for the technology available in the 1960s and 70s - there was enough technology around to allow manned missions to the moon back then. We have newer technology available today which will be used next time around which supersedes to some extent the technology of earlier eras but that does not mean older technology could not work.
The advent of diesel locomotives did not mean that steam engines couldn't have worked.
The more one looks at it though, the bigger the achievement seems. Without the Cold War it would never have happened though.
I always remember someone on a show about this pointing out that at the height of the Apollo program there was apparently something like 400,000 people directly or indirectly working for NASA.
His view was it was easier to go to the moon than it would have been to have kept it quiet if it was a conspiracy.
Especially with every Russian asset available pointing at the moon.
His view was it was easier to go to the moon than it would have been to have kept it quiet if it was a conspiracy.
Especially with every Russian asset available pointing at the moon.
Edited by b
hstewie on Saturday 1st June 08:46
hstewie on Saturday 1st June 08:46Prove your friend wrong with a simple (ish) experiment.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Rangin...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Rangin...
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I always remember someone on a show about this pointing out that at the height of the Apollo program there was apparently something like 400,000 people directly or indirectly working for NASA.
His view was it was easier to go to the moon than it would have been to have kept it quiet if it was a conspiracy.
The last loon I talked to about this said the only people who knew it was a fake were the astronauts & the people in Mission Control.His view was it was easier to go to the moon than it would have been to have kept it quiet if it was a conspiracy.
The launch of a Saturn V was carried out.
The whole of NASA, all 400000 of them, went through the motions but didn’t achieve anything.
It was worth it to stick it to the rest of the world that America was best.
It was done to distract everyone from Vietnam.
Now, notwithstanding the original idiocy, by 1969 people were pretty annoyed with Vietnam & that’s a good angle I hadn’t heard before.
But it does smack of this:
youtube said:
Mr E said:
Prove your friend wrong with a simple (ish) experiment.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Rangin...
I don't think that proves that men went to the Moon.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Rangin...
I don't think there is much doubt that we have put things on the Moon.
grumbledoak said:
I suspect this is a post closing time musing.
I can't see why you would need GPS on the Moon. Not just to land on it and take off again.
Let's see if the OP returns to argue his side...
Probably not once he sobers up.I can't see why you would need GPS on the Moon. Not just to land on it and take off again.
Let's see if the OP returns to argue his side...
For what it’s worth I think the Trump phenomenon and all the conspiracy theories simply point to the abject failure of the American state education system over the last couple of generations.
The GPS argument really does it for me. It's about as relevant as the electric toaster. GPS is only relevant to the astral body it orbits, fork all use to moon missions.
There have been no moon missions since the early 70's because of one very simple reason: funding. Once the first two missions went ok, the third was of no interest to the common man. Until Apollo 13's capsule got into problems the public weren't interested. Moon missions were primarily to prove the US space team was superior over the soviets which once you prove that the motivation drops off dramatically.
In my opinion the only reason for the recent push is to keep up with Elon Musk ego. I love space and all the missions but a lot right now seems to be a race between billionaires which is the ultimate turn off for me. I'm glad they're generating the motivation to move things on but how much is going to collapse when they get bored or we lose one in an accident?
There have been no moon missions since the early 70's because of one very simple reason: funding. Once the first two missions went ok, the third was of no interest to the common man. Until Apollo 13's capsule got into problems the public weren't interested. Moon missions were primarily to prove the US space team was superior over the soviets which once you prove that the motivation drops off dramatically.
In my opinion the only reason for the recent push is to keep up with Elon Musk ego. I love space and all the missions but a lot right now seems to be a race between billionaires which is the ultimate turn off for me. I'm glad they're generating the motivation to move things on but how much is going to collapse when they get bored or we lose one in an accident?
Jim H said:
Have we had the wool pulled over our eyes?
I had a good chat with a very accomplished physicist- and extremely wealthy guy because of.
He’d been working out, you actually need to know GPS on the moon.
You can kinda of work out vertical speed. But horizontal - no chance.
Phones back then were like of cogs and ratchets. Nothing like the tech available now.
Nothing has been out of near earth orbit for decades.
Actually nothing has been that far ever!
To go that far ? I’m sorry.
The wisdom of Pistonheads.
Convince me.
In terms of convincing, I’m fairly convinced you have a hangover this morning.I had a good chat with a very accomplished physicist- and extremely wealthy guy because of.
He’d been working out, you actually need to know GPS on the moon.
You can kinda of work out vertical speed. But horizontal - no chance.
Phones back then were like of cogs and ratchets. Nothing like the tech available now.
Nothing has been out of near earth orbit for decades.
Actually nothing has been that far ever!
To go that far ? I’m sorry.
The wisdom of Pistonheads.
Convince me.
I'm half hoping it comes to light that the whole thing WAS faked just to see the reactions of the type of people who are posting on here.
I do wonder whether people's faith in what they believe generally would then be shaken to the extent that they would question lots of other things. Or whether they'd still say "but it was only this one thing....."
Obviously, any regime committing a fraud wouldn't want anyone asking questions. And would encourage the ridicule / hounding of anyone asking questions.
I'm on the fence on this to the extent that it wouldn't be a surprise to me either way.
I do wonder whether people's faith in what they believe generally would then be shaken to the extent that they would question lots of other things. Or whether they'd still say "but it was only this one thing....."
Obviously, any regime committing a fraud wouldn't want anyone asking questions. And would encourage the ridicule / hounding of anyone asking questions.
I'm on the fence on this to the extent that it wouldn't be a surprise to me either way.
fatbutt said:
The GPS argument really does it for me. It's about as relevant as the electric toaster. GPS is only relevant to the astral body it orbits, fork all use to moon missions.
There have been no moon missions since the early 70's because of one very simple reason: funding. Once the first two missions went ok, the third was of no interest to the common man. Until Apollo 13's capsule got into problems the public weren't interested. Moon missions were primarily to prove the US space team was superior over the soviets which once you prove that the motivation drops off dramatically.
In my opinion the only reason for the recent push is to keep up with Elon Musk ego. I love space and all the missions but a lot right now seems to be a race between billionaires which is the ultimate turn off for me. I'm glad they're generating the motivation to move things on but how much is going to collapse when they get bored or we lose one in an accident?
Have you watched the series 'For All Mankind'? There have been no moon missions since the early 70's because of one very simple reason: funding. Once the first two missions went ok, the third was of no interest to the common man. Until Apollo 13's capsule got into problems the public weren't interested. Moon missions were primarily to prove the US space team was superior over the soviets which once you prove that the motivation drops off dramatically.
In my opinion the only reason for the recent push is to keep up with Elon Musk ego. I love space and all the missions but a lot right now seems to be a race between billionaires which is the ultimate turn off for me. I'm glad they're generating the motivation to move things on but how much is going to collapse when they get bored or we lose one in an accident?
It's 1969 and the Russians are first to walk on the moon. A major kick in the teeth of NASA and all of the USA.
Thus starts a Space Race that in this alternate view of history has bases on the Moon by the late 90s.
(Gubbermint always prepared to spend spend spend if it rubs those commies noses in it)
Very well made drama with loads of great cars from the 60s/70s/80s etc
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