Subaru in UK/Europe vs America
Discussion
Hello. It's PH's token Yank, here. I'd like to pose a question to all and sundry in the hopes you can solve a mystery for me. I've been wondering why Subaru struggles to sell cars in the UK and Europe and yet, across the pond, we can't get enough of them.
In 2020 (admittedly, a horrible year for selling cars) Subaru sold only 935 cars in the UK and 19,966 units in Europe. That same year, Subaru sold an incredible 611,942 units in America. Subarus are extremely popular in the more snowy parts of America; places like New England, the Pacific Northwest and Colorado. Even in Middle Tennessee, where I live, Subarus are EVERYWHERE despite the fact we get very little snow. So why is there such a huge discrepancy in sales between the US and the UK /Europe?
This article highlights the issue at hand....
https://www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-europe-cant...
Is the difference simply down to marketing? I ask because, in America, Subaru has cultivated an image as a car for young, active, outdoorsy, environmentally (and socially) conscious adventurers who love nature and seem to all own dogs.
This recent TV ad for the new Subaru Solterra electric car is typical of the sort of touchy-feely eco-warrior vibe which Subaru in known for...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a66oU3ZuhwQ&ab...
Thanks in advance to all who respond and help to satisfy my curiosity!
In 2020 (admittedly, a horrible year for selling cars) Subaru sold only 935 cars in the UK and 19,966 units in Europe. That same year, Subaru sold an incredible 611,942 units in America. Subarus are extremely popular in the more snowy parts of America; places like New England, the Pacific Northwest and Colorado. Even in Middle Tennessee, where I live, Subarus are EVERYWHERE despite the fact we get very little snow. So why is there such a huge discrepancy in sales between the US and the UK /Europe?
This article highlights the issue at hand....
https://www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-europe-cant...
Is the difference simply down to marketing? I ask because, in America, Subaru has cultivated an image as a car for young, active, outdoorsy, environmentally (and socially) conscious adventurers who love nature and seem to all own dogs.
This recent TV ad for the new Subaru Solterra electric car is typical of the sort of touchy-feely eco-warrior vibe which Subaru in known for...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a66oU3ZuhwQ&ab...
Thanks in advance to all who respond and help to satisfy my curiosity!
I think it is down to culture. In the UK people like to project their perceived success in life through the car on their drive. In the US people like to project their personality through their cars.
That’s why in the US people will drive a Subaru to the shops and you will have a good idea of what they want to be doing at the weekend. It’s also why cars in the US in the early 2000’s were plastered with stickers so you would be 100% sure.
That’s why in the US people will drive a Subaru to the shops and you will have a good idea of what they want to be doing at the weekend. It’s also why cars in the US in the early 2000’s were plastered with stickers so you would be 100% sure.
Edited by h0b0 on Wednesday 15th March 01:33
Image and marketing indeed.
Subaru's halo cars in the UK are now long, long gone.
Outbacks seemed to be everywhere in the US. That was never the prime object of desire in the UK. It was always the Impreza.
4WD is much less of a must have here due to weedy weather and there are also more alternatives without that need. Subaru are uniquely placed in the US market.
Subaru's halo cars in the UK are now long, long gone.
Outbacks seemed to be everywhere in the US. That was never the prime object of desire in the UK. It was always the Impreza.
4WD is much less of a must have here due to weedy weather and there are also more alternatives without that need. Subaru are uniquely placed in the US market.
h0b0 said:
I think it is down to culture. In the UK people like to project their perceived success in life through the car on their drive. In the US people like to project their personality through their cars.
That’s why in the US people will drive a Subaru to the shops and you will have a good idea of what they want to be doing at the weekend. It’s also why cars in the US in the early 2000’s were plastered with stickers so you would be 100% sure.
Some good points there and parallels here in NZ, which is also swarming with Subarus. That’s why in the US people will drive a Subaru to the shops and you will have a good idea of what they want to be doing at the weekend. It’s also why cars in the US in the early 2000’s were plastered with stickers so you would be 100% sure.
Cars typically aren't seen as a symbol of status or success so most people aren't interested in 'prestige' brands, especially in more rural areas.
But we have a prevalence of outdoor sports and lifestyles, plenty of twisty roads with a high proportion of gravel surfaces once you get off main roads, and some interesting weather (though much less snow). Subaru have been making cars to suit that niche for a long time.
Just my opinion, so please don't shoot me for this.
As the owner of a (leggy) 2001 Impreza, when Subaru decided hatchbacks were the new Imprezas, they shot themselves in the foot. They went from cheap(ish) saloon/estate cars with decent performance and great handling, into a congested market of hot hatches. When Golf Rs and RS3s came out, well, would you rather a VWAG product with 300+bhp and 4WD, or an ageing platform with 265bhp and AWD - which people lambasted as not being a "proper" Impreza?
I think that Honda picked up on this pretty well with the newer Civic Type Rs, which are saloons and arguably picked up where the Impreza left off. Yes, you can get saloon Imprezas now, but I think the damage was done with the hatchback Imprezas. I still see half a dozen older Subarus rumbling around, I've not seen a hatchback for a while.
Just seems to me like some graduate at Subaru really didn't understand the market and dropped a b
k.
As the owner of a (leggy) 2001 Impreza, when Subaru decided hatchbacks were the new Imprezas, they shot themselves in the foot. They went from cheap(ish) saloon/estate cars with decent performance and great handling, into a congested market of hot hatches. When Golf Rs and RS3s came out, well, would you rather a VWAG product with 300+bhp and 4WD, or an ageing platform with 265bhp and AWD - which people lambasted as not being a "proper" Impreza?
I think that Honda picked up on this pretty well with the newer Civic Type Rs, which are saloons and arguably picked up where the Impreza left off. Yes, you can get saloon Imprezas now, but I think the damage was done with the hatchback Imprezas. I still see half a dozen older Subarus rumbling around, I've not seen a hatchback for a while.
Just seems to me like some graduate at Subaru really didn't understand the market and dropped a b
k. Also in US (PacNW) and I agree they are everywhere.
To some extent I think the image is different here; there is no (or at least minimal), Colin McRea wannabee image. It is far closer to the eco warrior, active outdoorsy socially responsible person as noted in the original post. Also they have an excellent reputation for reliability. Fuel economy of permanent 4wd is not great and might be a factor in the UK, but it is largely inconsequential in the US.
I wonder whether the fuel economy and the social pressures against the `motorsports image /climate Greta Thunberg brigade', might be the big factors.
To some extent I think the image is different here; there is no (or at least minimal), Colin McRea wannabee image. It is far closer to the eco warrior, active outdoorsy socially responsible person as noted in the original post. Also they have an excellent reputation for reliability. Fuel economy of permanent 4wd is not great and might be a factor in the UK, but it is largely inconsequential in the US.
I wonder whether the fuel economy and the social pressures against the `motorsports image /climate Greta Thunberg brigade', might be the big factors.
As mentioned further up they are popular in Australia too. They have a good reputation (the head gaskets go long after the first owner is rid of it) and a fairly widespread dealer network. They offer something between “get off wet grass” AWD and proper 4x4s so are ideal for a family who wants to go outdoors but doesn’t want a full blown 4x4.
In Feb 2023 the Forester was the 9th best selling car with 1709 registrations, and Subaru was the 8th brand with 4054 registrations.
They are very expensive in the UK. For example, a top spec Forester Hybrid:
Australia = $54921 OTR = £30,200
UK = £41490
There is no way shipping and tax differences account for £11k difference!
In Feb 2023 the Forester was the 9th best selling car with 1709 registrations, and Subaru was the 8th brand with 4054 registrations.
They are very expensive in the UK. For example, a top spec Forester Hybrid:
Australia = $54921 OTR = £30,200
UK = £41490
There is no way shipping and tax differences account for £11k difference!
In the UK, the business lease market is very important. Subaru have really rubbish lease deals that appear completely non-competitive. That rules out the main business market.
Plus the switch gear on my 2018 Forester is rather agricultural. You can hear relays clicking etc. And the head unit is ancient in its options - no Carplay or Android Auto.
Did we mention 25mpg from the 2l turbo?
Do most people need 4wd?
A logical decision would be a Qashqai.
Only someone going for grins would get one.
Plus the switch gear on my 2018 Forester is rather agricultural. You can hear relays clicking etc. And the head unit is ancient in its options - no Carplay or Android Auto.
Did we mention 25mpg from the 2l turbo?
Do most people need 4wd?
A logical decision would be a Qashqai.
Only someone going for grins would get one.
On the whole the demise of Subaru is down to:
(1) Lack of a halo model
(2) Cars/engines are not sufficiently fuel efficient compared to the competition. £0 or £30 tax (RFL for the pedants matters).
(3) The importer IM Group/International Motors has made its money on cars, and has diversified into property and finance. Cars are an inconvenience to them.
(4) Lack of dealerships. Many Subaru franchises have closed. It's rare to find one in large towns/cities and more often than not, they are based in small country village garages in the middle of nowhere.
(1) Lack of a halo model
(2) Cars/engines are not sufficiently fuel efficient compared to the competition. £0 or £30 tax (RFL for the pedants matters).
(3) The importer IM Group/International Motors has made its money on cars, and has diversified into property and finance. Cars are an inconvenience to them.
(4) Lack of dealerships. Many Subaru franchises have closed. It's rare to find one in large towns/cities and more often than not, they are based in small country village garages in the middle of nowhere.
Second Best said:
As the owner of a (leggy) 2001 Impreza, when Subaru decided hatchbacks were the new Imprezas, they shot themselves in the foot. They went from cheap(ish) saloon/estate cars with decent performance and great handling, into a congested market of hot hatches. When Golf Rs and RS3s came out, well, would you rather a VWAG product with 300+bhp and 4WD, or an ageing platform with 265bhp and AWD - which people lambasted as not being a "proper" Impreza?
Not sure about the UK, but in NZ a WRX or even an STI was hugely cheaper than a Golf R, let alone an RS3 which was probably heading towards double the cost of an STI once you ticked a few options.And STI was just as quick as the Golf R, with more involving handling and similar real-world fuel economy...
Then add the reputation here for VWAG being not particularly reliable, with expensive servicing and parts costs (Euro stuff in NZ gets a 'prestige Euro car' markup even if its just a VW)... you can see why the Golf R didn't really impact Subaru sales here. Hot hatches were never really much of a thing here anyway, apart from teenage boyracer types with lowered Civics etc.
I wonder how much of the cost difference in the UK was from taxes (especially pre-brexit) giving EU-built cars a competitive advantage over imports?
I have owned an Outback in the UK, bought new. A few thoughts - many people go for cheap lease deals, which the big Germans offer, but Subaru don't meaning you are paying more to have a 'less desirable' badge on the driveway. The CVT is not a great choice, they are thirsty cars and not particularly quick, but it was surefooted and fun to drive. Fit and finish was good, and reliability good, although towards the end of our ownership the power tailgate was playing up, and the TPMS was a PITA. It was a very nannying car, with a nervous collision avoidance system and lane departure warnings which needed to be disabled after every start.
I recently looked again at their line up and there was nothing which appealed. I use a Hilux most of the time, and we live rurally (like no street lights or pavements, not a greenbelt estate), and own a dog, so you would think that they would be a contender for us, but the looks are challenging, the specs limiting and nothing that makes me think 'I really want one of those'.
I recently looked again at their line up and there was nothing which appealed. I use a Hilux most of the time, and we live rurally (like no street lights or pavements, not a greenbelt estate), and own a dog, so you would think that they would be a contender for us, but the looks are challenging, the specs limiting and nothing that makes me think 'I really want one of those'.
As someone who’s looking for either a Forester or an Outback in the coming months, it does seem to be the niche choice and you have to want a Subaru rather than simply a car to do XYZ. They are simply not on most peoples radar when it comes to buying cars and the limited choice of engines hampers it big time.
For instance, on the Forester there’s only the hybrid option which gets mixed views to say the least and the drivetrain is considered to be the weak point. It’s not fast nor particularly frugal and the electric bits are pretty pointless especially when you compare it to its main competitor, the RAV4.
The Outback is only available with the n/a 2.5L which is a proven lump but again, isn’t particularly frugal nor powerful for the size of car. There is no diesel option anymore nor the more powerful options available in the States and also no electric/hybrid option. No one really buys big engined stuff over here in the main and most mainstream petrol offerings tends to be small, efficient turbos.
Add in absolutely abysmal marketing in that it’s pretty non-existent, a dealer network that’s spread far and wide and as I’m finding, you really have to travel to find the car you want.
Unfortunately, I see Subaru going the way of Mitsubishi in that they’ll completely give up on the U.K. market.
For instance, on the Forester there’s only the hybrid option which gets mixed views to say the least and the drivetrain is considered to be the weak point. It’s not fast nor particularly frugal and the electric bits are pretty pointless especially when you compare it to its main competitor, the RAV4.
The Outback is only available with the n/a 2.5L which is a proven lump but again, isn’t particularly frugal nor powerful for the size of car. There is no diesel option anymore nor the more powerful options available in the States and also no electric/hybrid option. No one really buys big engined stuff over here in the main and most mainstream petrol offerings tends to be small, efficient turbos.
Add in absolutely abysmal marketing in that it’s pretty non-existent, a dealer network that’s spread far and wide and as I’m finding, you really have to travel to find the car you want.
Unfortunately, I see Subaru going the way of Mitsubishi in that they’ll completely give up on the U.K. market.
valiant said:
For instance, on the Forester there’s only the hybrid option which gets mixed views to say the least and the drivetrain is considered to be the weak point. It’s not fast nor particularly frugal and the electric bits are pretty pointless especially when you compare it to its main competitor, the RAV4.
I’ve driven a Forester Hybrid a bit.I only saw the EV at indicator come on when I was creeping up a driveway, or rolling to a stop at a junction. Other than that it seemed to run on petrol the whole time!
vikingaero said:
On the whole the demise of Subaru is down to:
(1) Lack of a halo model
(2) Cars/engines are not sufficiently fuel efficient compared to the competition. £0 or £30 tax (RFL for the pedants matters).
(3) The importer IM Group/International Motors has made its money on cars, and has diversified into property and finance. Cars are an inconvenience to them.
(4) Lack of dealerships. Many Subaru franchises have closed. It's rare to find one in large towns/cities and more often than not, they are based in small country village garages in the middle of nowhere.
This all the way. I find it pitiful that Subaru UK/IM Group make no special effort to promote Subaru cars here and it's been like this since the mid-2000's. For Foresters, the only people keeping them going are Subaru/Forester fans happy in keeping our SG's on the road. (1) Lack of a halo model
(2) Cars/engines are not sufficiently fuel efficient compared to the competition. £0 or £30 tax (RFL for the pedants matters).
(3) The importer IM Group/International Motors has made its money on cars, and has diversified into property and finance. Cars are an inconvenience to them.
(4) Lack of dealerships. Many Subaru franchises have closed. It's rare to find one in large towns/cities and more often than not, they are based in small country village garages in the middle of nowhere.
The current/previous few MY's of Subaru cars are of a totally different breed. Car design moves on, the markets change and sadly the E-Boxer models are poor change when compared to many other manufacturers. The US benefits from less stringent emission regulations, this is seen with the new Forester and Outback XT/Wilderness editions. I for one would dearly love to see these actively sold in the UK instead of the bland model options of the past 5-10 years.
Two things need to happen to re-establish Subaru in the UK, 1. Subaru needs to be taken away from IMG and given to a parent company that has the commercial ambition to make Subaru a prominent UK car make [here, I refuse to use the word 'brand...' as abhor this US marketing term], and 2. Subaru UK need to actively promote & sell fast sporting XT & STi models to attract younger buyers enabling new generation and succession buyers - and I see no reason why this should not happen, after all, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, VAG as a whole and Volvo all have fast capable sports models that people are happy to absorb increased buy and running costs, ala, RS, M-Power, AMG, Polestar, Cupra.
For us SG Forester owners we either continue to keep ours on the road and benefit over time from increasing values as they become increasingly rare, import the sought after XT/TS & STi models to keep our Forester itches scratched...or, leave the Forester fraternity for good.
Here, I bought my FXT nearly nine years ago, it starts every day I use it, has never let me down...excluding the one time the immobiliser failed when trying to exit the Eurotunnel train causing a mammoth and most humorous snarl up in Calais...this tale could write a book of legend, go down in the annals of Subaru history[!]...and brings a smile to my face whenever I'm behind the wheel.
The big question most of us have is, 'What other car could possibly replace our aging SG's/FXT's...?'
When the VED bands came in any Subaru with decent performance went straight into the highest tax bands, these models also drink fuel which has been heavily taxed in tax-hell Britain at an alarming rate, thanks to the full time 4WD system.
To combat the above they brought out the 2 litre Diesel, this wasn't powerful enough and sadly lasted about as long as a modern tory prime monster befaore crapping itself by breaking the crankshaft or whatever else, if changing a set of boxer engine spark plugs wasn't nightmare enough imagine having to get into injector issues with 2" of space to work in beside the chassis rails.
They also offered LPG conversions on new cars for fuel economy, sadly like many car maker's systems they failed to fit a flashlube system so after w hile valve seat recession would raise its ugly head, massive job to put right.
Maker's parts prices in the stratosphere.
No bragging rights, very important to many in Britain, hence all the german clones parked on the driveways of cloned houses on identical housing estates, unique simply won't sell unless it impresses others.
Imprezzas sadly appealed to a certain type as they aged.
Then you get down to servicing, Subaru like Toyota AWDs demand regular proper servicing, including the transmission oils etc of which there are a lot = expensive.
Like many Japanese cars they need annual proper brake servicing or the calipers will start to seize.
Rust is a big issue, in the US salt (rust) belt they literally fall apart, in Britain we have a fetish for road salt when its not needed and almost no one has any clue or interest in underbody washing or rust prevention, thousands are too bone idle to even wash the topside so no hope of the underbosdy seeing any attention.
Poorly protected as are too many Japanese cars from new.
I like Subarus and still run a 2.5XT Forester, its proved superbly reliable and for us at least cost effective because apart from cambelt changes i can do all the work needed myself, the 4WD system is the dogs danglers and makes the car what it is, ours is running on LPG which probably out about the same fuel coststo run as in the US.
Probably end up scrapping it, VED alone next year will be £675 another couple of years of 10% increases and it'll be pushing £1000 just to tax it.
To combat the above they brought out the 2 litre Diesel, this wasn't powerful enough and sadly lasted about as long as a modern tory prime monster befaore crapping itself by breaking the crankshaft or whatever else, if changing a set of boxer engine spark plugs wasn't nightmare enough imagine having to get into injector issues with 2" of space to work in beside the chassis rails.
They also offered LPG conversions on new cars for fuel economy, sadly like many car maker's systems they failed to fit a flashlube system so after w hile valve seat recession would raise its ugly head, massive job to put right.
Maker's parts prices in the stratosphere.
No bragging rights, very important to many in Britain, hence all the german clones parked on the driveways of cloned houses on identical housing estates, unique simply won't sell unless it impresses others.
Imprezzas sadly appealed to a certain type as they aged.
Then you get down to servicing, Subaru like Toyota AWDs demand regular proper servicing, including the transmission oils etc of which there are a lot = expensive.
Like many Japanese cars they need annual proper brake servicing or the calipers will start to seize.
Rust is a big issue, in the US salt (rust) belt they literally fall apart, in Britain we have a fetish for road salt when its not needed and almost no one has any clue or interest in underbody washing or rust prevention, thousands are too bone idle to even wash the topside so no hope of the underbosdy seeing any attention.
Poorly protected as are too many Japanese cars from new.
I like Subarus and still run a 2.5XT Forester, its proved superbly reliable and for us at least cost effective because apart from cambelt changes i can do all the work needed myself, the 4WD system is the dogs danglers and makes the car what it is, ours is running on LPG which probably out about the same fuel coststo run as in the US.
Probably end up scrapping it, VED alone next year will be £675 another couple of years of 10% increases and it'll be pushing £1000 just to tax it.
Smint said:
When the VED bands came in any Subaru with decent performance went straight into the highest tax bands, these models also drink fuel which has been heavily taxed in tax-hell Britain at an alarming rate, thanks to the full time 4WD system.
Even when the real-world fuel consumption isn't dramatically different to their on-demand-4wd competition, they never seemed to 'game' the test cycles for artificially low official figures the way VW etc do.On a slight twist , I have had Fsti sg9 for a long time , running three now , best all round car I have had , pre the the Fsti I had imprezas , when my Fsti are no more , then I would not buy a scooby at the moment as nothing in the line up appeals to me , the current scooby options in the uk are very limited , but I now have resolved an itch with a jdm gtr r35 , i don’t own a uk car lol
Gassing Station | Subaru | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff