Complete noob - Outback vs Legacy ?
Discussion
Hello all ! Looking to for help to replace my ageing Passat estate with another cheapish dog wagon that will go on forever. Subaru wagons have a good reputation but I’m confused by the different variants. Narrowed down to petrol, the 3 litre sounds best but I’m put off a bit by potential running costs. Are the smaller engines worthwhile, or not ? It doesn’t have to go like a rocket, I have a Caterham for that, but it must be comfortable for the occasional long distance trip.
I would go for the Legacy over the Outback. As the other poster says the Outback is basically a Legacy on stilts. Heres a rundown of my Ownership: I was in your position in 2015. I hadnt a clue what to buy but knew I needed 4wd and an estate living in alpine Switzerland. I looked around me and every other car here is a subaru. Then it clicked with me about the Legacy (I also remembered watching Niall Maguire and Richard Burns rallying them). I bought a 2014 model with 17,000km on the clock. Its the 2.0i model with about 160bhp. I wasnt gone on the looks but when was there ever a nice looking subaru. I wanted a white one but there was none available matching all the other criteria. Thats the only thing i would change.
When I was looking for one our garage man warned us off the diesel version. He said that quite a few had been sold in Switzerland and they have a poor reputation for reliability relative to the petrol model which is 'tried and tested' with the same engine going into the Impreza Forrester XV for the Swiss market. I do about 30,000km a year and the car has not missed a beat since i bought it at one year old in August 2015. Its now a 106500km. The comfort and standard equipment levels are very very high. I can highly recommend it in this regard. The Bluetooth is a bit fiddly to set up and there are some build quality issues such as the boot cargo cover having a clip that falls off every time you use it and the cup holders having a partition piece that comes out whenever you but a large water bottle in it. In terms of petrol use, the tank has a range of 800km and I would do about 650km per week. So I fill it every week and it costs with todays prices 80chf per week or a little less. Thats about 80e give or take. But all that is only minor in the overall context. Service is every 15000km. Do not neglect this and make sure the previous Owner has not either., especially if you do plump for the diesel. Cabin noise is quite low but then you miss a little of the boxer burble. I miss it in the winter anyway as I have to run winter tyres which are super hard super noisy but work well on the snow and Ice. Also I would go for 16" alloys. The arches may look a bit starved but your back will be glad of it as the suspension is a touch on the hard side. Handling is quite good but the steering can lack a little bit of 'feel'. The Awd system lets you really push it into the corners and it grips forever. Torque isnt particularly great but they have a good top end. The Manual gearbox is notchy at first and takes some getting used to. But honestly they are beasts on the road and will conceivably allow you in poor road conditions to leave the posse behind. In normal conditions they are not the fastest on the road but certainly not the slowest. They are quite hard to drive with the Awd in traffic as its a permanent system and so the car can be quite jumpy at low speeds. But otherwise the system is simpler and yet far far superior than the Haldex systems on for example VW group cars. If you need to know anything more then PM me (photo of mine below). Oh and by the way, the cops in the alps drive them (see below):
I think Im well placed to recommend one to you given that Ive spent two hours in one on a daily basis since 2015.
When I was looking for one our garage man warned us off the diesel version. He said that quite a few had been sold in Switzerland and they have a poor reputation for reliability relative to the petrol model which is 'tried and tested' with the same engine going into the Impreza Forrester XV for the Swiss market. I do about 30,000km a year and the car has not missed a beat since i bought it at one year old in August 2015. Its now a 106500km. The comfort and standard equipment levels are very very high. I can highly recommend it in this regard. The Bluetooth is a bit fiddly to set up and there are some build quality issues such as the boot cargo cover having a clip that falls off every time you use it and the cup holders having a partition piece that comes out whenever you but a large water bottle in it. In terms of petrol use, the tank has a range of 800km and I would do about 650km per week. So I fill it every week and it costs with todays prices 80chf per week or a little less. Thats about 80e give or take. But all that is only minor in the overall context. Service is every 15000km. Do not neglect this and make sure the previous Owner has not either., especially if you do plump for the diesel. Cabin noise is quite low but then you miss a little of the boxer burble. I miss it in the winter anyway as I have to run winter tyres which are super hard super noisy but work well on the snow and Ice. Also I would go for 16" alloys. The arches may look a bit starved but your back will be glad of it as the suspension is a touch on the hard side. Handling is quite good but the steering can lack a little bit of 'feel'. The Awd system lets you really push it into the corners and it grips forever. Torque isnt particularly great but they have a good top end. The Manual gearbox is notchy at first and takes some getting used to. But honestly they are beasts on the road and will conceivably allow you in poor road conditions to leave the posse behind. In normal conditions they are not the fastest on the road but certainly not the slowest. They are quite hard to drive with the Awd in traffic as its a permanent system and so the car can be quite jumpy at low speeds. But otherwise the system is simpler and yet far far superior than the Haldex systems on for example VW group cars. If you need to know anything more then PM me (photo of mine below). Oh and by the way, the cops in the alps drive them (see below):
I think Im well placed to recommend one to you given that Ive spent two hours in one on a daily basis since 2015.
There's a few different 2.0 models, 2 N/A ones with 146 and 162bhp then a twinscroll turbo GT JDM model. I'm guessing you're looking at the gen4 models (2003-2009ish)
You get all the kit on the 3.0 Spec B and the engine has a cam chain rather than belt, the 3.0 is a great engine - extremely smooth and very comfortable. The Spec B does have a slightly harsher ride but other than it's a great cruiser.
You get all the kit on the 3.0 Spec B and the engine has a cam chain rather than belt, the 3.0 is a great engine - extremely smooth and very comfortable. The Spec B does have a slightly harsher ride but other than it's a great cruiser.
Edited by Tall_Paul on Thursday 3rd January 12:59
teembo said:
Thanks for that detailed response. So is the 2.0 petrol well worth having ? I see a lot of enthusiasm for the 3.0 but not so much for the other engines.
if you have a choice and are doing low'ish mileage the 3.0 will make a good case for itself. The 2.0i is an awesome engine though and its tried and tested in the mountains here. It doesnt break even under heavy thrashing (see my other post!!) and pulls well. No turbo is a disadvantage in terms of Torque but an advantage in terms of 'one less thing that could go...'. I think you'll be happy regardless of what you choose but a specc'd up Gen 5 legacy 2.0i could serve you well. 
te unless you are really old or thinking of a current generation Levorg. I`ve got a 2005 2.5 manual Outback - looked for a 3.0 but couldn't find one in time. Post 2006 the tax for the 3.0 is around £500 p.a. which is a bit much. The extra ground clearance is possibly useful if you go down a muddy lane now & then. I've used it a very functional workhorse but it's pretty comfortable on a longer run. The old fashioned estate layout works well. Nobody knows what it is & most seem to think it's a Kia....
It came with Yokohama Geolander tyres which appear to be specially made for this model, they were pretty worn & I replaced them with some Coopers on which have been fine. Good luck in finding one - I think I'd have another.
It came with Yokohama Geolander tyres which appear to be specially made for this model, they were pretty worn & I replaced them with some Coopers on which have been fine. Good luck in finding one - I think I'd have another.
julianm said:
I`ve got a 2005 2.5 manual Outback - looked for a 3.0 but couldn't find one in time. Post 2006 the tax for the 3.0 is around £500 p.a. which is a bit much. The extra ground clearance is possibly useful if you go down a muddy lane now & then. I've used it a very functional workhorse but it's pretty comfortable on a longer run. The old fashioned estate layout works well. Nobody knows what it is & most seem to think it's a Kia....
It came with Yokohama Geolander tyres which appear to be specially made for this model, they were pretty worn & I replaced them with some Coopers on which have been fine. Good luck in finding one - I think I'd have another.
That is the same model that gets the puncture which leads to the double murder at the start of season two of the Sinner on netflix. It came with Yokohama Geolander tyres which appear to be specially made for this model, they were pretty worn & I replaced them with some Coopers on which have been fine. Good luck in finding one - I think I'd have another.
Thats your useless information for the day.
rastapasta said:
julianm said:
I`ve got a 2005 2.5 manual Outback - looked for a 3.0 but couldn't find one in time. Post 2006 the tax for the 3.0 is around £500 p.a. which is a bit much. The extra ground clearance is possibly useful if you go down a muddy lane now & then. I've used it a very functional workhorse but it's pretty comfortable on a longer run. The old fashioned estate layout works well. Nobody knows what it is & most seem to think it's a Kia....
It came with Yokohama Geolander tyres which appear to be specially made for this model, they were pretty worn & I replaced them with some Coopers on which have been fine. Good luck in finding one - I think I'd have another.
That is the same model that gets the puncture which leads to the double murder at the start of season two of the Sinner on netflix. It came with Yokohama Geolander tyres which appear to be specially made for this model, they were pretty worn & I replaced them with some Coopers on which have been fine. Good luck in finding one - I think I'd have another.
Thats your useless information for the day.
I bought a gen 3 Outback 2005 3.0litre auto and its fairly epic. I managed to snag a 100k miles minter with FSH for £2k. Everything works, quite posh spec with nice leather, panoramic roof, heated seats. It's not fast, only 250bhp in a 1500kgs car, and quite ”boaty” to drive with a sluggish gear change but that suits its barge-like nature. It feels like it's hewn out if granite and will outlast me. I preferred the ”lifted”, rugged look of the Outback. Fuel consumption is averaging 27mpg.
Thanks again for all your contributions. I read that the Forester was not much bigger than an Impreza inside and I do like/need a bit of room. Don’t think I really need extra ground clearance of the Outback, so could go for a Legacy. A few around at the moment but not many manuals so I might have to wait around. I guess a manual 2.0 better than a CVT 2.5 ? Lots of 3.0s but I just don’t think I can spring for one, being the third car.
I've had 3 Legacys and have just returned to a 2.0R manual petrol estate (2009) after several anodine VAG products. Thoughts.......
The 2.0 performance is only adequate and they need to be revved to make progress but that's part of the fun. However they grow on you despite their shortcomings - there's a real sense of integrity to the engineering which makes the ownership experience strangely satisfying. Great chassis and poise for a big car and very reliable if you keep on top of oil changes and suspension bushes (drop links every 15k miles - but cheap).
The last one I had went from 44k to 115k miles before I changed it - I did only the timing belt, bushes, oil changes and brake pads in that time (oh, and a custom stainless exhaust systems which cost £450 - better that £1800 for a mild steel Subie one!). Never needed brake discs in that time - a record?
The downside is the poor fuel consumption - I average 30mpg in my 2.0 manual, which makes me think I would have been better suffering the 5mpg difference in the 3.0 for a bit more fun.
Great car - you either get them or you don't (my wife hates it). On a manual you get high and low range which can be useful in tackling farm tracks or slow moving traffic
If you can find a manual 2.5 8 valve that's the one to have - more torque and better consumption than the 2.0 quad cam, but they are quite rare and hard to come by (I had a 2.5 Gen 4 from new and it was a great car)
The 2.0 performance is only adequate and they need to be revved to make progress but that's part of the fun. However they grow on you despite their shortcomings - there's a real sense of integrity to the engineering which makes the ownership experience strangely satisfying. Great chassis and poise for a big car and very reliable if you keep on top of oil changes and suspension bushes (drop links every 15k miles - but cheap).
The last one I had went from 44k to 115k miles before I changed it - I did only the timing belt, bushes, oil changes and brake pads in that time (oh, and a custom stainless exhaust systems which cost £450 - better that £1800 for a mild steel Subie one!). Never needed brake discs in that time - a record?
The downside is the poor fuel consumption - I average 30mpg in my 2.0 manual, which makes me think I would have been better suffering the 5mpg difference in the 3.0 for a bit more fun.
Great car - you either get them or you don't (my wife hates it). On a manual you get high and low range which can be useful in tackling farm tracks or slow moving traffic
If you can find a manual 2.5 8 valve that's the one to have - more torque and better consumption than the 2.0 quad cam, but they are quite rare and hard to come by (I had a 2.5 Gen 4 from new and it was a great car)
Don't know that film but a non-repairable puncture could well lead to a new set of four tyres if you adhere to the 'avoid transmission wind-up' of maintaining equal diameter wheels.
I think that might easily lead to a double murder.
It's fun to spot one of your old cars in a film - have a look here: http://www.imcdb.org/
Which is either really sad or great!
I think that might easily lead to a double murder.
It's fun to spot one of your old cars in a film - have a look here: http://www.imcdb.org/
Which is either really sad or great!
I'll add that the 2.5 is better than the 2.0i - they're both 16v engines, with similar output but the torquier 2.5 is easier to live with and more rugged than the internet would have you believe. If you can spring for a turbo version, then any will suffice - just find the best in your budget. Same with the 3.0. In all cases keep an eye on the oil level and keep on top of maintenance - preventation is so much better than trying to cure.
The pre-2009 Forester is Impreza-sized, but 09-on its a bigger car. XT is fun.
In all cases, my preference would always be a manual. I had a 2002 3.0 Outback for a few weeks, and whilst nice to pootle about, it was hamstrung. Also had a Gen5 Legacy 2.0i in NZ with the f"@$king CVT box which ruined the Queenstown-Wanaka-Queenstown drive.
As others have said, they do get under your skin, and provide a sense of satisfaction in owning/driving that goes beyond the numbers. I've had 4 Legacy/Liberty, an Outback and a Forester over the past 12 or so years. I've just updated the thread in Readers Cars for my 2013 Liberty GT if that floats your boat.
The pre-2009 Forester is Impreza-sized, but 09-on its a bigger car. XT is fun.
In all cases, my preference would always be a manual. I had a 2002 3.0 Outback for a few weeks, and whilst nice to pootle about, it was hamstrung. Also had a Gen5 Legacy 2.0i in NZ with the f"@$king CVT box which ruined the Queenstown-Wanaka-Queenstown drive.
As others have said, they do get under your skin, and provide a sense of satisfaction in owning/driving that goes beyond the numbers. I've had 4 Legacy/Liberty, an Outback and a Forester over the past 12 or so years. I've just updated the thread in Readers Cars for my 2013 Liberty GT if that floats your boat.
Tall_Paul said:
rastapasta said:
julianm said:
I`ve got a 2005 2.5 manual Outback - looked for a 3.0 but couldn't find one in time. Post 2006 the tax for the 3.0 is around £500 p.a. which is a bit much. The extra ground clearance is possibly useful if you go down a muddy lane now & then. I've used it a very functional workhorse but it's pretty comfortable on a longer run. The old fashioned estate layout works well. Nobody knows what it is & most seem to think it's a Kia....
It came with Yokohama Geolander tyres which appear to be specially made for this model, they were pretty worn & I replaced them with some Coopers on which have been fine. Good luck in finding one - I think I'd have another.
That is the same model that gets the puncture which leads to the double murder at the start of season two of the Sinner on netflix. It came with Yokohama Geolander tyres which appear to be specially made for this model, they were pretty worn & I replaced them with some Coopers on which have been fine. Good luck in finding one - I think I'd have another.
Thats your useless information for the day.
julianm said:
Don't know that film but a non-repairable puncture could well lead to a new set of four tyres if you adhere to the 'avoid transmission wind-up' of maintaining equal diameter wheels.
I think that might easily lead to a double murder.
It's fun to spot one of your old cars in a film - have a look here: http://www.imcdb.org/
Which is either really sad or great!
Yes, we have great delight in spotting our old Merc W108 280SE which turns up in LOADS of movies, TV ads, music videos etc, a real gangster car.I think that might easily lead to a double murder.
It's fun to spot one of your old cars in a film - have a look here: http://www.imcdb.org/
Which is either really sad or great!
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