Forester sti vs JDM 2002 wagon sti

[paul n]

hi all

I am currently looking for a car to replace my UK 2002 WRX wagon which has a prodrive back box, filter and remap (about 265bhp)I love the car but it is suffering abit with years on the UK roads and would require quite a lot of work to get it back up to standard.

Had my heart set on a forester STI and can get a fresh import for about 8.5-9k. after doing quite abit of research and I am a little nervous of the 2.5 engine and reliability issues.

started looking at alternatives and found that there is a JDM version of the 2002 STI wagon which has the pretty much bomb proof 2.0 engine (rather than 2.5)and it might be easier to get parts for it as there are a lot of uk sti's and I imagine the parts just swap over? they also cost about 2k less than the forester which is all good!

can anybody offer opinions on both cars? seems like you get about the same power out of both with a remap (320ish?) how does handling/ ride compare? reliability etc? insurance and running costs?

many thanks

Paul

[MDMA .]

I'm sure a certain person will be along anytime and tell you the 2.5 is the worst engine in the world but the FSTI uses the ej255, not the ej257 ( which has had its problems ) but not as bad as people make out. Bad fuel, badly mapped, poor servicing and cack handed owners can break any turbo charged car. There are lots of big mileage cars out there. You only hear about the cars with problems!

Buy what you really want, i never once thought about not buying mine because it has the 2.5 engine. Its a much nicer drive than the 2.0

[TEKNOPUG]

vxr2010 has both an FSTi and an STi Wagon, so is probably best qualified to answer (although I think he's had 2 FSTi engines fail on him...)

Bare in mind that the Wagon was only made 01/02, so the youngest ones will be 14 years old. I'm considering a Wagon STi too some time in the future, mainly because I've got a Bug WRX Wagon already, so lots of my parts can be swapped over. I'd probably only consider a fresh import though, as rust is becoming an issue on the ones that have spent time in the UK. Also, you might have to wait a long time for a decent one to come up for sale, as there are so few in the country to choose from. Lots of FSTis to choose from, even though they were also JDM only.

Edited by TEKNOPUG on Wednesday 16th November 10:15

[paul n]

Yeah there are two on pistonheads from dealers fresh imports for 7k which look good. The 6 speed box appeals but looking I think the 01/02 wagon only comes with stardard brakes which is a bummer as sti saloons come with the brembos. I was thinking of swapping over my prod river back box from my current car before remap if I want for a wagon.

With a fresh import will undersealing keep it rust free or does it just delay the process once on UK shaky roads ?

[TEKNOPUG]

paul n said:

Yeah there are two on pistonheads from dealers fresh imports for 7k which look good. The 6 speed box appeals but looking I think the 01/02 wagon only comes with stardard brakes which is a bummer as sti saloons come with the brembos. I was thinking of swapping over my prod river back box from my current car before remap if I want for a wagon.

With a fresh import will undersealing keep it rust free or does it just delay the process once on UK shaky roads ?

Brembos are a straight swap, if you want them, lots of them will come already fitted. They don't all get HIDs either.

It will keep it rust free for a lot longer! They weren't rust proofed properly from the factory - ignoring the lack of underseal on the JDM cars. They rot from the inside of the rears arches, out. The inner wing has sealant applied and then was sprayed over. This sealant acts as a sponge and because they didn't paint, then seal, there is no rust protection on the metal and they rot. They are also affected where the fuel filler drain hole is and also rot along the tailgate, where the window seals at the bottom. If I was going to spend £7k+, I'd want one with as little potential rust as possible, that I could apply some preventative measures to.

[MDMA .]

you not fancy a nice classic wagon? a JDM sti one? personally, I'd have one of those than a bugeye wagon. think they look so much nicer.

[paul n]

TEKNOPUG said:

Brembos are a straight swap, if you want them, lots of them will come already fitted. They don't all get HIDs either.

It will keep it rust free for a lot longer! They weren't rust proofed properly from the factory - ignoring the lack of underseal on the JDM cars. They rot from the inside of the rears arches, out. The inner wing has sealant applied and then was sprayed over. This sealant acts as a sponge and because they didn't paint, then seal, there is no rust protection on the metal and they rot. They are also affected where the fuel filler drain hole is and also rot along the tailgate, where the window seals at the bottom. If I was going to spend £7k+, I'd want one with as little potential rust as possible, that I could apply some preventative measures to.

I am assuming that a fresh import will be as rust free as I can get. I never did know if the whole imports have less rust protection was real or just one of those rumours! so that is something to bear in mind! I would get it properly undersealed and try to keep on top of it!

[paul n]

MDMA . said:

you not fancy a nice classic wagon? a JDM sti one? personally, I'd have one of those than a bugeye wagon. think they look so much nicer.

I have had a classic wagon in the past and loved it but I think the classics do need little more upkeep as they are older and as it will be a daily driver for my wife I want to keep it relatively new and reliable.

I did have first refusal on my friends STI classic wagon. It's was fantastic but it was white with the two massive spoilers on the boot had BC coilovers and 18inch rims so was pretty brutal as a daily driver and I just think I could get the looks past my wife!

I like the V7 STI wagon as it is very understated (if a little boring) but I quite like a car to look subtle but go fast. My other car is a supercharged MX5 which looked pretty much sandard which is quite fun when you come up against people (mainly BMW's) who think it is a haridressers car!

if JDM cars are more prone to rust maybe I should look at a UK hawkeye wagon? but I don't really want to pay £550 a year tax! and there is the 2.5 engine again!

complicated!

[vxr2010]

hi Paul , lol where do i start , once the 2.5 is built well with the right mods and a sensible tune between 310 to 330 bhp they are a very good punchy engine , yes 2 litre is a more reliable , both my fsti engines have gone even when i don't skimp on looking after them , my jdm sti wagon brakes with redstuff pads are fine but yes you can upgrade , performance wise the fsti is much easier to launch off the line than the wagon , the forster off the line using the same effort would be a fair bit quicker than the wagon , both cars have the same map and exhaust , the wagon makes it up at higher speed and more boost , but the fsti is far from slow , fsti spools much quicker , coilovers on a fsti yes a firmer ride but a much better handling car , revs on fsti are about 750 ish rpm lower once up to speed as jdm sti have a closer gear set up , in simple both cars are great fun , my wagon is spotless and has no rust it's looks newer than the 04 fsti , on a long run 30mpg plus is possible on the fsti i have had 35 mpg , what more do you need to know , both great fun cars , both fsti have cost me just money on sorting the engines out , the rebuild on my 04 was at 83k miles it's on about 145k now , the 05 fsti went at 75k miles but well worth rebuilding , i have had a lot of fun with the fsti so worth the rebuild

[vxr2010]

the wagon as an sti looks good , it has the hid's that you can adjust , they are under sealed mine was but it is a good idea to re do it which i did within a few days of buying , uk weather is main enemy of any car

[paul n]

vxr2010 said:

hi Paul , lol where do i start , once the 2.5 is built well with the right mods and a sensible tune between 310 to 330 bhp they are a very good punchy engine , yes 2 litre is a more reliable , both my fsti engines have gone even when i don't skimp on looking after them , my jdm sti wagon brakes with redstuff pads are fine but yes you can upgrade , performance wise the fsti is much easier to launch off the line than the wagon , the forster off the line using the same effort would be a fair bit quicker than the wagon , both cars have the same map and exhaust , the wagon makes it up at higher speed and more boost , but the fsti is far from slow , fsti spools much quicker , coilovers on a fsti yes a firmer ride but a much better handling car , revs on fsti are about 750 ish rpm lower once up to speed as jdm sti have a closer gear set up , in simple both cars are great fun , my wagon is spotless and has no rust it's looks newer than the 04 fsti , on a long run 30mpg plus is possible on the fsti i have had 35 mpg , what more do you need to know , both great fun cars , both fsti have cost me just money on sorting the engines out , the rebuild on my 04 was at 83k miles it's on about 145k now , the 05 fsti went at 75k miles but well worth rebuilding , i have had a lot of fun with the fsti so worth the rebuild

cheers for the info! very useful! I do really fancy a FSTI! I have always wanted one! and I like idea of lower revs whilst cruising and loads of torque! what exhaust have you got on the FSTI? any other mods? what coilovers? the engine issues do worry me! what exactly went wrong with yours? what kind of costs to rebuild? did you rebuild with forged pistons etc? sorry for all the questions! Cheers Paul

[TEKNOPUG]

paul n said:

if JDM cars are more prone to rust maybe I should look at a UK hawkeye wagon? but I don't really want to pay £550 a year tax! and there is the 2.5 engine again!

complicated!

All Impreza's are made in the same factory. JDM models have different specs to UK ones (or different models entirely). JDM cars aren't undersealed as they don't salt the roads in Japan. So a fresh import will have less chance of rust than a UK car of similar age. You should obviously underseal an import upon arrival in the UK.

[vxr2010]

hi exhaust wise a centre section delete and an hks back box you get much better flow and noise , bc coilovers a 1 and a bit or so inch lowering and a remap , one car i did the rear arb to a thicker one but coilovers make the most difference , i've never had any piston issues but on rebuilds i've always gone for forged pistons updated crank bearings updated hg and arp head bolts , one car hg went then a year later crank bearings so in the long run just do a full rebuild as the crank bearings tend to go after hg fails with in a year of the hg fail so you end up paying twice , the other fsti hg fail but getting a full rebuild done at the mo and it should be done soon , cost wise around 4300£ ish as a new clutch was needed

[paul n]

vxr2010 said:

hi exhaust wise a centre section delete and an hks back box you get much better flow and noise , bc coilovers a 1 and a bit or so inch lowering and a remap , one car i did the rear arb to a thicker one but coilovers make the most difference , i've never had any piston issues but on rebuilds i've always gone for forged pistons updated crank bearings updated hg and arp head bolts , one car hg went then a year later crank bearings so in the long run just do a full rebuild as the crank bearings tend to go after hg fails with in a year of the hg fail so you end up paying twice , the other fsti hg fail but getting a full rebuild done at the mo and it should be done soon , cost wise around 4300£ ish as a new clutch was needed

cheers for the info!

I might have to revisit my aims of getting a FSTI if there could be a 4k bill lurcking further down the line! Just don't have that kind of cash spare!

give me shout if you ever seell any of the cars! As you say best to get one with the work already done!

Cheers Paul

[TEKNOPUG]

There is of course the third-way - A Legacy GT with twin-scroll turbo.

[MDMA .]

TEKNOPUG said:

There is of course the third-way - A Legacy GT with twin-scroll turbo.

yes, good ones in Japan are around the 400-500,000 yen mark now.

[vxr2010]

my wagon maybe up for sale soon i'm pondering selling it

[macky17]

paul n said:

vxr2010 said:

hi exhaust wise a centre section delete and an hks back box you get much better flow and noise , bc coilovers a 1 and a bit or so inch lowering and a remap , one car i did the rear arb to a thicker one but coilovers make the most difference , i've never had any piston issues but on rebuilds i've always gone for forged pistons updated crank bearings updated hg and arp head bolts , one car hg went then a year later crank bearings so in the long run just do a full rebuild as the crank bearings tend to go after hg fails with in a year of the hg fail so you end up paying twice , the other fsti hg fail but getting a full rebuild done at the mo and it should be done soon , cost wise around 4300£ ish as a new clutch was needed

cheers for the info!

I might have to revisit my aims of getting a FSTI if there could be a 4k bill lurcking further down the line! Just don't have that kind of cash spare!

give me shout if you ever seell any of the cars! As you say best to get one with the work already done!

Cheers Paul

Don't be put off the FSTi too quickly. If an engine has been rebuilt, it would be mentioned in the advert surely? Yet how many FSTi adverts mention engine rebuilds? Very, very few - and many of the cars advertised over the past few months have been over 100k miles. Then think about UK 2.5 engines (which are supposedly even more likely to let go) - have a look through the adverts for UK STi 2.5 imprezas for sale right now and count how many mention engine rebuilds. I'd be surprised if you find more than a couple. Again, many, many of these cars will be well over 100k miles by now and still going strong - despite most probably not having been looked after as well as us 'enthusiasts' care for them. vxr2010 may have simply been very unlucky.

[MDMA .]

as above. don't let the horror stories put you off. worth noting that the cooling system on these is as important as the lubrication. try and avoid tap water ( too many minerals in it and this is what break downs the gaskets ) and use deionized water if possible or the oem super coolant is supposed to be very good, if you can find it ( see link below for the part number ) -

http://parts.subaru.com/p/Super-Coolant-Pre-mixed/...

[paul n]

vxr2010 said:

my wagon maybe up for sale soon i'm pondering selling it

Pm me details