engine re builder Herts

[vxr2010]

hi as above , any one know a good engine rebuilder in the Herts area or a sensible difference from here , some ones said API , quite a few builders are very busy with work , the fsti is burning quite a bit of oil on start up

[BrownPantsRacing]

Some builders won't re-build the 2.5 engine due to it's problems. I'd go with a builder that has a good reputation with the 2.5 engine for building good lasting ones personally, irrespective of their location.

Personally I'd go with, Engine Tuner, Paul Finch or WMS Racing. They all do lots of 2.5 engines that last very well indeed.

[MDMA .]

Also Chevron Motorsport and CAMS Subaru. But you would need to travel a bit for them.

[v8250]

vxr2010 said:

hi as above , any one know a good engine rebuilder in the Herts area or a sensible difference from here , some ones said API , quite a few builders are very busy with work , the fsti is burning quite a bit of oil on start up

vxr, how many miles has your engine covered? Re' engine builds, you should give subaru4u a call in Newbury. They're not on your immediate doorstep but do a very good job. Or, you may like to call FB Tuning just over the county line in Bucks.

[BrownPantsRacing]

Rich @ FB Tuning won't build a 2.5 engine. He doesn't want to put his name to one. Which I can understand.

[v8250]

BrownPantsRacing said:

Rich @ FB Tuning won't build a 2.5 engine. He doesn't want to put his name to one. Which I can understand.

That's interesting. It's only the later 2.5's that suffers ringland failure and predominantly overseas territories where Subaru know they have higher volume sales of these engines i.e. North America, Far East and Australasia. I have a 2.5 FXT and many Forseter owners know it's only a small range of engine numbers that are prone to failure. If the later 2.5 engine is rebuilt correctly there should be no problems, same with any other engine...RV8, Jaguar XK/XJ, oil cooled 911's et al...they all have their known weaknesses and known upgrade paths. And as per Subaru engines, these engines are now renowned for immense reliability through race development which has seen the upgrade path become standard upon road rebuilds. If an engine is known to have its power limits, and all do, then a builder should not go beyond this...of course, the Subaru world is built upon guys and girls wanting big power beyond the original design parameters so it's understandable that Richard would not risk his good name and reputation. Yet other extremely knowledgeable builders have no qualms with the 2.5's.

[BrownPantsRacing]

I wouldn't say other builders have no issues with the 2.5 engine. If you speak to most of the builders they all acknowledge that the 2.5 design isn't as good as the 2.0 engine and even when properly built, they are still prone to issues. Albeit much less than standard of course.

I personally love the 2.5 engine. Had a hawkeye and now a FSTI both with well tuned 2.5 engines that make great road cars.

[MDMA .]

FSTI is the EJ255. later were the EJ257 ( with the problems ). albeit, mainly the UK cars and a bad map.

I'm sure someone will be along quite soon saying that the 2.5 is the worst engine in the world and wouldn't touch it.

there are a lot of 2.5 engines out there on huge mileage that are fairing well. shame it has happened and can be quite expensive to re-build but see what actually needs doing. may just be head gaskets and in that case, does in need to be built back up into a fully forged 450bhp monster ?

[BrownPantsRacing]

MDMA . said:

FSTI is the EJ255. later were the EJ257 ( with the problems ). albeit, mainly the UK cars and a bad map.

I'm sure someone will be along quite soon saying that the 2.5 is the worst engine in the world and wouldn't touch it.

there are a lot of 2.5 engines out there on huge mileage that are fairing well. shame it has happened and can be quite expensive to re-build but see what actually needs doing. may just be head gaskets and in that case, does in need to be built back up into a fully forged 450bhp monster ?

Actually, it's not really the map causing most of the problems. The later 2.5 engines as fitted to the 2006 impreza onwards were known to have insufficient torquing of the head studs in the factory build process. This very commonly leads to premature head gasket failure due to lifting of the heads under boost, which subsequently leads to other issues like piston & bore damage. This is why it is always recommended to keep boost levels below 1.35bar on a standard 2.5 engine.

They are also prone to ringland piston skirt failure. The risk of failure from this can be increased due to a poor ECU map which in turn creates additional heat damage. This is the reason STI's have seen more failures than WRX models so far.

While the earlier pre 2006 engines are less susceptible to these issues, failures do still occur on occasion. Truth be told, as there are fewer earlier 2.5 engines around the percentage of failures could still be the same as the later builds.

Any reputable engine builder will tell you that if the 2.5 head gasket goes, then you should do a FULL rebuild on the engine, because the big ends will shortly follow if you just do the head gaskets. They will also tell you that if you are doing a rebuild then it would certainly be worth changing the standard (failure prone pistons) to forged type. The standard 2.5 rods are very good, but these can also be upgraded further. I would always recommend uprated head studs too with a fresh rebuild & Cosworth or RCM head gaskets are preferred once built, as both are actually made by the same company.

If you want to make bigger power then the open deck 2.5 block will need closed deck inserts. There are 2 ways of doing this and the correct way is the use of the cryogenic insert type.

Also bear in mind that once forged, you will need to do oil changes more often as forged pistons will allow for more fuel to enter the oil system and increase the chance of engine wear. Your oil service intervals will probably go from 10k to 3k miles.

In my mind, it's all still worth it though as the torque and driveability of the 2.5 for a road car is great. Although, much more than 350bhp in a road car is probably not required or useable on our roads without losing your license!

[v8250]

MDMA . said:

FSTI is the EJ255. later were the EJ257 ( with the problems ). albeit, mainly the UK cars and a bad map.

I'm sure someone will be along quite soon saying that the 2.5 is the worst engine in the world and wouldn't touch it.

there are a lot of 2.5 engines out there on huge mileage that are fairing well. shame it has happened and can be quite expensive to re-build but see what actually needs doing. may just be head gaskets and in that case, does in need to be built back up into a fully forged 450bhp monster ?

This +1.

BrownPants, I'm genuinely intrigued as to why forged pistons cause greater wash-by/wash down in Subaru's as they do not in other all alloy horizontally opposed engines and never with inline or all alloy V8's that I've rebuilt/used. As long as the piston/ring/bore tolerances are perfect, correct rings specified and installed properly and the engine is run in correctly there should be near zero wash-by. I guess somewhere someone has been monitoring fuel in oil results and high HC's at exhaust. Logically, if this is a common Subaru problem are the engine builders just plain bore honing and not plateau honing too? If not, they need to be. Serious Q? as to why with Subaru's?

[BrownPantsRacing]

v8250 said:

This +1.

BrownPants, I'm genuinely intrigued as to why forged pistons cause greater wash-by/wash down in Subaru's as they do not in other all alloy horizontally opposed engines and never with inline or all alloy V8's that I've rebuilt/used. As long as the piston/ring/bore tolerances are perfect, correct rings specified and installed properly and the engine is run in correctly there should be near zero wash-by. I guess somewhere someone has been monitoring fuel in oil results and high HC's at exhaust. Logically, if this is a common Subaru problem are the engine builders just plain bore honing and not plateau honing too? If not, they need to be. Serious Q? as to why with Subaru's?

This was as quoted to me directly by all the reputable engine builders I've spoken to so far. I was told all forged builds would need oil changes more often due to increased particulates in the oil.

Presumably this is in some part due to the fact that a forged piston takes far longer than a cast piston to heat up to normal running temperature and expand to ideal operating sizes. During the extended warm up period the piston ring/wall gaps will be larger for a longer period allowing more fuel particulates through.

[MDMA .]

Another option and prices here -

http://tdracing.co.uk/project/engine-rebuilds/

[vxr2010]

the fsti is on 75 k miles , it appears to be piston or piston ring issues , I'm just seeing how things go , oil was slightly high so I've reduced it a bit but I don't think that that is the problem , the 2 litre appears to be the stronger engine , the 2.5 is the better driving engine , it' has a load more torque , and it is not so much a case of right gear right speed as it is with the 2 litre lump , the car is an 05 so it's 11 years old and so engine not been out before , costly but one of those things , off the start line the fsti destroys the jdm 2 litre bugeye wagon , when wagon gets on boost then it probably levels the playing field again , but over a short distance fsti is much quicker ,this is based on the same mods of exhaust and a basic re map

[TEKNOPUG]

What grade oil are you using?

[vxr2010]

I think it was a 5 / ? by previous owner , a bit thin for me but no point spending money on an oil change if it's toast and needs a re build , I have to check the oil on a slope where I am but what works for one fsti does not work for another as far as dipstick level is concerned , I've reduced the oil amount but I don't think it was the problem

[v8250]

vxr2010 said:

I think it was a 5 / ? by previous owner , a bit thin for me but no point spending money on an oil change if it's toast and needs a re build , I have to check the oil on a slope where I am but what works for one fsti does not work for another as far as dipstick level is concerned , I've reduced the oil amount but I don't think it was the problem

vxr, 75,000 seems low mileage for an early FSTi engine to go wobbly, unless it's had a hard life. Re' oils, it must be checked on a flat surface or you're wasting your time. Subaru's being horizontally opposed need 2-3 measures of the stick before a clean oil level reading is guaranteed...the preferred oil at this mileage is 10W40. The recommended oil is Millers CFS 10W40, I use this and have zero smoke from the 2.5 that on 75,646 miles. Try a good oil and filter change ensuring it's refilled on a level surface and see what happens/if smoke clears itself. There have been quite a few Forester folk with similar symptoms to yours, changed oil and the smoking has cleared up. Mileaged Subaru engines do not like thin oil and for the sake of £30...

[vxr2010]

I appreciate what you are saying , I measured oil at work on a flat surface and then noted the change in dipstick location for the slight slope where it's parked and that how I base it , it needs to be slightly over max to be level be full , I will see how things go , the two other subarus same place for checking oil and no issues , the fsti I had before , crank bearings went around 85k miles

[v8250]

vxr2010 said:

the fsti I had before , crank bearings went around 85k miles

were they ran dry/semi-dry at any stage? it's always interesting in trying to understand why engines give up the ghost...or the will to live.

interestingly, having the major [major] service completed on mine today, all belts, pulleys, water pump, thermostat, spark plugs, filters and all fluids [oils and hydraulic]. i'm as nervous as hell as normally complete all work myself but have sent to a seriously good garage local to me, ran by an ex-F1 gearbox designer and his right hand man. they do all sort of superb work from basic servicing to full rebuilds and complete projects, both great guys with a near spotlessly clean garage. under an hour 'til pick up time

good luck with the fsti/hope you get the old girl sorted...

[macky17]

What sort of money do I need tucked away in case the worst happens to my FSTi?

[BrownPantsRacing]

£3.5 - £5k.