Legacy 3.0 Spec B for / against
Discussion
I've long admired the Legacy 3.0 Spec B as a family-friendly, yet discreetly fast, machine. I'm interested in one as my next car as the children get bigger and outgrow my WRX Wagon. I'm primarily interested in manual estates but am not closed to an auto. I'd be using the car on my 30-mile Welsh fast A-road commute plus family holidays and domestic stuff.
I know that the £500 VED is offset by the lack of need to change the timing belts, and that it's a nightmare to try and switch to an after-market stereo. I know most are over 100k miles and that doesn't upset me; I've had Vauxhall Cavaliers with 140k :-)
What are they like to own and run? What's real-world mpg? Suitability as tow-cars? Is there any real gain over a 2.5? These plus answers to questions I haven't asked. Thx.
I know that the £500 VED is offset by the lack of need to change the timing belts, and that it's a nightmare to try and switch to an after-market stereo. I know most are over 100k miles and that doesn't upset me; I've had Vauxhall Cavaliers with 140k :-)
What are they like to own and run? What's real-world mpg? Suitability as tow-cars? Is there any real gain over a 2.5? These plus answers to questions I haven't asked. Thx.
Cannot answer all your questions, and I think you know I have auto Outback not spec B.
Towing - only used for cattle trailer (empty) a relatively short distance, which it was absolutely fine with - but I used the diesel outback to tow a fair bit and it managed very well
No idea how different from 2.5 - never driven one of them
Average mpg - when I first had it last summer I averaged around 27 but that fell to around 24-25 over the winter months (a) uses more in cold wether (b) got bored of just wafting and have been using the sport and sport sharp rather than just the intelligent option. Never managed to get above 30 even on a long motorway run - best ever is I think about 30
Towing - only used for cattle trailer (empty) a relatively short distance, which it was absolutely fine with - but I used the diesel outback to tow a fair bit and it managed very well
No idea how different from 2.5 - never driven one of them
Average mpg - when I first had it last summer I averaged around 27 but that fell to around 24-25 over the winter months (a) uses more in cold wether (b) got bored of just wafting and have been using the sport and sport sharp rather than just the intelligent option. Never managed to get above 30 even on a long motorway run - best ever is I think about 30
I like mine, it's an 05 estate.
Last 3k miles 21mpg. But I do have a short urban commute. Long trip on Motorway I got 29mpg. I do about 7k a year, so not a big issue.
Not as fast as a WRX but makes a lovely noise and handles very well. It's a nice car and feels well built. Always makes me smile on B roads in the Yorkshire Dales.
It is a bit hard work in traffic. Heavy clutch, a bit jerky, feels the bumps at low speeds.
Budget for a stainless exhaust as they always rot at the Y section and most have been bodged.
I changed from 18's to 17's and the ride is much better.
Not towed with mine.
Great value for money.
The 2.5 is a nice engine, I had a 2.5 outback. But nothing like the pull of the 3.0. The 6 speed box really helps the Spec B along too.
If you want fun go for the spec B, or for comfort the 2.5. Perhaps the 3.0 R is in between but I've not driven one.
Last 3k miles 21mpg. But I do have a short urban commute. Long trip on Motorway I got 29mpg. I do about 7k a year, so not a big issue.
Not as fast as a WRX but makes a lovely noise and handles very well. It's a nice car and feels well built. Always makes me smile on B roads in the Yorkshire Dales.
It is a bit hard work in traffic. Heavy clutch, a bit jerky, feels the bumps at low speeds.
Budget for a stainless exhaust as they always rot at the Y section and most have been bodged.
I changed from 18's to 17's and the ride is much better.
Not towed with mine.
Great value for money.
The 2.5 is a nice engine, I had a 2.5 outback. But nothing like the pull of the 3.0. The 6 speed box really helps the Spec B along too.
If you want fun go for the spec B, or for comfort the 2.5. Perhaps the 3.0 R is in between but I've not driven one.
Edited by STURBO on Tuesday 28th April 19:23
I've had an outback 3.0R for the last 16 months and 25k miles - Its a great workhorse, plenty of room for kids in the back and a nice sized boot.
The 3.0 engine is a peach - most of my driving is on dual carriageways and A roads. Its returned 26mpg since I have had it. the best being 32mpg, cruising autoroutes, fully loaded in france last summer
Mines an auto with the SI modes - the normal intelligent mode is ok for wafting, but can be a bit dimwitted, sport sharp is quite frisky.
The outback is very composed, I would imagine the spec b is a bit more focussed, but the outback handled a quick blast over the yourkshire moors last year nicely - even though it was packed to the gunwhales (on way back from hols, seemed rude to miss out the stokesley-Helmsley road)
I tow a boat with no issues, but its only a small racing dinghy!
The 3.0 engine is a peach - most of my driving is on dual carriageways and A roads. Its returned 26mpg since I have had it. the best being 32mpg, cruising autoroutes, fully loaded in france last summer
Mines an auto with the SI modes - the normal intelligent mode is ok for wafting, but can be a bit dimwitted, sport sharp is quite frisky.
The outback is very composed, I would imagine the spec b is a bit more focussed, but the outback handled a quick blast over the yourkshire moors last year nicely - even though it was packed to the gunwhales (on way back from hols, seemed rude to miss out the stokesley-Helmsley road)
I tow a boat with no issues, but its only a small racing dinghy!
Mr Taxpayer said:
Thanks for the feedback so far. I'm I'll be buying a second set of wheels to run winter tyres and may well get 17" for the winter.
Thanks for the tip to look at the 3.0R as well. I've heard plenty good things about the auto-box but I still love manuals.
I don't miss the manual and have the same SI spec'd model as above. The Legacy is also very well suited to the auto but I know what you mean about liking manuals. The thing is the smooth H6 suits a smooth gearbox too but probably more so in the Outback as it's very softly suspended.Thanks for the tip to look at the 3.0R as well. I've heard plenty good things about the auto-box but I still love manuals.
I looked for nearly a year to get a Spec-B and they are impossible to find in estate form unless you want a poorly documented 'bargain' or one with astro-miles. My 09 3.0R Outback was the last of the nice shaped ones, had just over 40k on it and is immaculate. Nobody buys them to thrash so you're getting a far better treated car and if you know they're well looked after because they're not bought by the masses.
Go try one, they're awesome.
Have a look for the GTB, JDM import, twin scroll and it will cost you less in road tax due to them being from around 2003-2006 time, probably set you back anywhere from 5-8k but its sportier and quicker, plus it will give you similar economy to the B but not have the tax. You will need to run it on Shell v power/tesco momentum or get her remapped but it should be more fun than a UK model 
I’m going to offer a bit of a counterpoint to the Outback 3.0 R piece, as like the OP I had a WRX wagon and ran an Outback at the same time.
I had the Outback from new as a company car replacement for a SAAB 9-5 Aero Estate (I had a 56 plate 2.5 WRX wagon as my personal car). The good points were many – it felt much better engineered than the SAAB, the interior was excellent in quality and finish (mine had the ivory leather and it looked fantastic) and it was a much better wagon than the SAAB, with self levelling suspension, a larger load area and rear seats that were very easy to fold down (and folded totally flat). The 3.0 lump sounded great too after turbo’d four cylinders.
However…..
Very soon I found the seat comfort to be appalling; now I know this is a very personal thing and that SAAB seats are rightly renowned but eventually I could do no more than 90 minutes behind the wheel. I had done many long trips in the WRX and had no similar issues; the Outback had very different shaped seats.
The engine, whilst sounding great, was matched to the wrong drivetrain in the Outback in my opinion. It has a nice bump of low end torque but then is pretty flat until about 4500, when it really picks up to a strong top end performance. The auto box has very long ratios, if I recall correctly second would almost take it to an indicated 70, third to around 110, and according the literature it would hit vmax in fourth, not fifth. This combination meant that the car could not “stream” past slower traffic on my typical busy motorway grind, where I value that 60 to 85 thump that the SAAB and WRX gave in spades. In the end I resorted to putting the box in manual Sports Sharp and being in fourth in most busy motorway situations to give me any meaningful passing ability. And yes, I could have clipped it down a few, but that becomes tiring on the kind of long trips I was doing. Here I feel the 6 speed manual in the Spec B could have a big benefit.
The Outback was equipped with Yokohama Geolanders as standard and frankly they are dismal in my opinion for spirited driving. I did change them to Michelin Pilot (I can’t remember the exact ones) and that improved it but it was by no means a grown up WRX, it had none of the chassis adjustability and did not communicate grip to slip in the same way.
Now, I accept that my duty cycle may be very different to any other posters, but I found the Outback to be ultimately one of the disappointing cars I’ve had – I do think a manual Spec B would iron out the drivetrain and handling issues and perhaps the seats might be better!
Good luck in your search and I hope that you get to try both a Spec B and Outback before you choose.
I had the Outback from new as a company car replacement for a SAAB 9-5 Aero Estate (I had a 56 plate 2.5 WRX wagon as my personal car). The good points were many – it felt much better engineered than the SAAB, the interior was excellent in quality and finish (mine had the ivory leather and it looked fantastic) and it was a much better wagon than the SAAB, with self levelling suspension, a larger load area and rear seats that were very easy to fold down (and folded totally flat). The 3.0 lump sounded great too after turbo’d four cylinders.
However…..
Very soon I found the seat comfort to be appalling; now I know this is a very personal thing and that SAAB seats are rightly renowned but eventually I could do no more than 90 minutes behind the wheel. I had done many long trips in the WRX and had no similar issues; the Outback had very different shaped seats.
The engine, whilst sounding great, was matched to the wrong drivetrain in the Outback in my opinion. It has a nice bump of low end torque but then is pretty flat until about 4500, when it really picks up to a strong top end performance. The auto box has very long ratios, if I recall correctly second would almost take it to an indicated 70, third to around 110, and according the literature it would hit vmax in fourth, not fifth. This combination meant that the car could not “stream” past slower traffic on my typical busy motorway grind, where I value that 60 to 85 thump that the SAAB and WRX gave in spades. In the end I resorted to putting the box in manual Sports Sharp and being in fourth in most busy motorway situations to give me any meaningful passing ability. And yes, I could have clipped it down a few, but that becomes tiring on the kind of long trips I was doing. Here I feel the 6 speed manual in the Spec B could have a big benefit.
The Outback was equipped with Yokohama Geolanders as standard and frankly they are dismal in my opinion for spirited driving. I did change them to Michelin Pilot (I can’t remember the exact ones) and that improved it but it was by no means a grown up WRX, it had none of the chassis adjustability and did not communicate grip to slip in the same way.
Now, I accept that my duty cycle may be very different to any other posters, but I found the Outback to be ultimately one of the disappointing cars I’ve had – I do think a manual Spec B would iron out the drivetrain and handling issues and perhaps the seats might be better!
Good luck in your search and I hope that you get to try both a Spec B and Outback before you choose.
Just did 500 miles in my Outback over the weekend with a mate and it was amazingly comfortable in ride and seating so it must be a personally thing.
You do not hussle an Outback on B roads as its too rolly but it's not meant to be an Impreza clone but some stuffer springs or thick rollbars will sort that out if it's what you want.
It's the more relaxing cruiser than the harder spec b but I find the gearbox just fine for a regular auto. The gearing doesn't matter as it has such flat torque and I find it pulls extremely well across the rev range. My only annoyance is the box has to step through the gears so if you dump it from 5th and it needs 2nd you have to wait as it changes down twice. But that's why you have paddles and eyes
You do not hussle an Outback on B roads as its too rolly but it's not meant to be an Impreza clone but some stuffer springs or thick rollbars will sort that out if it's what you want.
It's the more relaxing cruiser than the harder spec b but I find the gearbox just fine for a regular auto. The gearing doesn't matter as it has such flat torque and I find it pulls extremely well across the rev range. My only annoyance is the box has to step through the gears so if you dump it from 5th and it needs 2nd you have to wait as it changes down twice. But that's why you have paddles and eyes
I think if you enjoy a manual box, then get the Legacy 3.0R Spec B rather than the Outback 3.0R. The Legacy rides lower and stiffer, albeit harsher, and the six-speed box is pretty good. I've had a good go in both versions - a friend has an Outback 3.0 and a colleague has a SpecB (and I've got a GT...) For me, for cross-country work, of the two its the Spec B every time. The engine does its best work higher in the rev range, and my experience of the auto is that its just not quick enough to be fun. I think also the Spec B has the same quicker steering rack as the GT.
Someone suggested the 2.5 - I've had two of those, a Gen 3 wagon and a Gen 4 sedan. They're OK, but if you're in the market for a 3.0, you'd only be disappointed. Fuel efficiency is not much better either.
If you want a posh WRX, then get a Legacy GT
Someone suggested the 2.5 - I've had two of those, a Gen 3 wagon and a Gen 4 sedan. They're OK, but if you're in the market for a 3.0, you'd only be disappointed. Fuel efficiency is not much better either.
If you want a posh WRX, then get a Legacy GT
tonyb1968 said:
Have a look for the GTB, JDM import, twin scroll and it will cost you less in road tax due to them being from around 2003-2006 time, probably set you back anywhere from 5-8k but its sportier and quicker, plus it will give you similar economy to the B but not have the tax. You will need to run it on Shell v power/tesco momentum or get her remapped but it should be more fun than a UK model
I run the WRX on LPG and would be converting the Legacy ss well. I know some people rave about JDM cars and that a 10-year old car is a 10-year old car irrespective of the original market, but...I know the 2.0GTB has ~280BHP but is that at the expense of driveability and torgue lower down? I've 240bhp in my Impreza and if you're in the wrong gear, i.e below 3000rpm, nothing happens. Some years ago I went round the Nurburgring as a passenger in a WRX STi and the 'off-boost' effect was even more pronounced.
Mr Taxpayer said:
I know the 2.0GTB has ~280BHP but is that at the expense of driveability and torgue lower down? I've 240bhp in my Impreza and if you're in the wrong gear, i.e below 3000rpm, nothing happens. Some years ago I went round the Nurburgring as a passenger in a WRX STi and the 'off-boost' effect was even more pronounced.
I've looked at the JDM cars a lot. At the moment, I can't quite justify the buy price + underseal + remap when there's nothing overly wrong with keeping my WRX. That said, they've dropped in price a lot recently, I assume it's an exchange rate thing. I've not looked at the UK 3.0 cars so much as I can't afford the hit on fuel economy and I have a real dislike of leather seats (never seen a spec B without leather, guess it's standard).I've not driven one, so I can't tell you specifics, but the BP5 2.0 GT (and GT Spec B) uses a twin scroll turbo, which should theoretically improve things at the low end.
I used to get irritated with my WRX as I found I had to drop a gear (or two) for the most sedate of overtaking. In the end, I had it sorted out with some exhaust/mapping work to get some decent boost at around 2K5RPM, which makes it a lot less 'busy' to drive day to day. If it hadn't have sorted it, I think I'd have had to change car. Fundamentally, I like big displacement 6 pots, I shouldn't own a turbo
Konan said:
but the BP5 2.0 GT (and GT Spec B) uses a twin scroll turbo, which should theoretically improve things at the low end.
I used to get irritated with my WRX as I found I had to drop a gear (or two) for the most sedate of overtaking. In the end, I had it sorted out with some exhaust/mapping work to get some decent boost at around 2K5RPM, which makes it a lot less 'busy' to drive day to day. If it hadn't have sorted it, I think I'd have had to change car. Fundamentally, I like big displacement 6 pots, I shouldn't own a turbo
Not all BP5 are twin-turbo - this one is a single turbo, but still 180kW/241bhp as standard. The Aussie 2.0-litre STi versions were 200kW/267bhp - presume more is easily achievable...I used to get irritated with my WRX as I found I had to drop a gear (or two) for the most sedate of overtaking. In the end, I had it sorted out with some exhaust/mapping work to get some decent boost at around 2K5RPM, which makes it a lot less 'busy' to drive day to day. If it hadn't have sorted it, I think I'd have had to change car. Fundamentally, I like big displacement 6 pots, I shouldn't own a turbo
As for overtaking, agree that not much happens below 3k, but with a redline at 7.5k, its not a narrow power band, and redline in second is about 110kmh. I like the Jekyll/Hyde character - pootle around, changing at 3k, and its an innocuous, spacious, 2.0-litre wagon that doesn't use a lot of petrol. Hoof it, and off you go.
Mr Taxpayer said:
I've long admired the Legacy 3.0 Spec B as a family-friendly, yet discreetly fast, machine. I'm interested in one as my next car as the children get bigger and outgrow my WRX Wagon. I'm primarily interested in manual estates but am not closed to an auto. I'd be using the car on my 30-mile Welsh fast A-road commute plus family holidays and domestic stuff.
I know that the £500 VED is offset by the lack of need to change the timing belts, and that it's a nightmare to try and switch to an after-market stereo. I know most are over 100k miles and that doesn't upset me; I've had Vauxhall Cavaliers with 140k :-)
What are they like to own and run? What's real-world mpg? Suitability as tow-cars? Is there any real gain over a 2.5? These plus answers to questions I haven't asked. Thx.
I've owned one since Oct 2012 at 48k miles, now on 74k miles.I know that the £500 VED is offset by the lack of need to change the timing belts, and that it's a nightmare to try and switch to an after-market stereo. I know most are over 100k miles and that doesn't upset me; I've had Vauxhall Cavaliers with 140k :-)
What are they like to own and run? What's real-world mpg? Suitability as tow-cars? Is there any real gain over a 2.5? These plus answers to questions I haven't asked. Thx.
Brilliant fun to drive due to the suspension setup, engine sounds fantastic and works very well with the six-speed STI gearbox.
It handles much much better than many a car, never mind a 'large' one, and excels on the B-roads.
Late 2004 means VED is 285? GBP, real world mpg is 27 average but if you enjoy yourself too much this will drop-off steeply
Very good at towing (I often pull a heavily loaded 9x5 foot trailer) - no idea on the 2.5, but for me the appeal was the handling ability of the spec.B, not the 'power' of the 3.0.
Engine oil must be 5W30, rear wheel bearings go but are 'cheap' from importcarparts and easy to fit (if you can undo the old ones), OE brakes are a bit naff but a new set of Brembo discs and Hawk pads do a much better job.
Against? Nothing. Maybe too refined after a classic Prodrive Impreza?
Edited by Orangecurry on Friday 8th May 16:52
ps I fitted 225/40/18 tyres onto the 7J OE wheels, as it gives you a hugely bigger tyre choice with no downsides. (OE size is 215/40/18).
When we took it skiing I used my ex-Impreza Prodrive 17s and fitted 225/45/17 winter tyres.
Both wheel sizes work very well, but you notice the extra weight of the 18s. As someone else said you may find the ride 'harsh' but it depends what you are used to - to me it floats around like a magic carpet, but doesn't like potholes.
On the winters it then laughed in the face of sheet ice and/or loose snow in the mountains, and torrential rain throughout France.
When we took it skiing I used my ex-Impreza Prodrive 17s and fitted 225/45/17 winter tyres.
Both wheel sizes work very well, but you notice the extra weight of the 18s. As someone else said you may find the ride 'harsh' but it depends what you are used to - to me it floats around like a magic carpet, but doesn't like potholes.
On the winters it then laughed in the face of sheet ice and/or loose snow in the mountains, and torrential rain throughout France.
Orangecurry said:
ps I fitted 225/40/18 tyres onto the 7J OE wheels, as it gives you a hugely bigger tyre choice with no downsides. (OE size is 215/40/18).
When we took it skiing I used my ex-Impreza Prodrive 17s and fitted 225/45/17 winter tyres.
Big thanks for the tyre info Orange Curry. I have a spare set of winter-shod 17"s and am glad that I'll be able to continue using them. They took me very happily over the ice-covered Gospel Pass in Wales back in February.When we took it skiing I used my ex-Impreza Prodrive 17s and fitted 225/45/17 winter tyres.
I've just picked up a 2005 legacy 3.0r spec b auto estate as a replacement dog carrier. It's meant as a stop gap until I source a BMW 550i touring but...First impressions - wow! The handling is out of this world for a car of it's size, and that noise! The 400 mile round trip was well worth it just for the drive back. The sport mode is pretty special.
Looks a nice clean example, just had a replacement exhaust & fsh. Brakes & alloys are the obvious weak points so will be looking to sort that soon.
Is the nav software easily upgradable?
Mr taxpayer - I believe I'm local to you (South Wales) so pm me if you want a look around it
Looks a nice clean example, just had a replacement exhaust & fsh. Brakes & alloys are the obvious weak points so will be looking to sort that soon.
Is the nav software easily upgradable?
Mr taxpayer - I believe I'm local to you (South Wales) so pm me if you want a look around it
Edited by Sargeant Orange on Saturday 16th May 23:52
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