Better Brakes for a '53 Blobeye?
Discussion
Hi
After a brief flirtation with a Jag XKR, I have decided that I need to fix a couple of things on my blobeye so that I'm totally happy with it and don't get sidetracked by glamorous hussies with superchargers....
The current brakes are pretty poor, but they are 'blue print slb372' - apparently part of the Bilstein group. So, I have been looking at the Godspeed kevlar pads as they get mostly good reviews, but is it worth going for the discs as well and is it worth doing the rears at the same time?
Any suggestions would be good, I want them for fast road rather than track driving, but they need to be good around town as well and not stupidly pricey.
Thanks
After a brief flirtation with a Jag XKR, I have decided that I need to fix a couple of things on my blobeye so that I'm totally happy with it and don't get sidetracked by glamorous hussies with superchargers....
The current brakes are pretty poor, but they are 'blue print slb372' - apparently part of the Bilstein group. So, I have been looking at the Godspeed kevlar pads as they get mostly good reviews, but is it worth going for the discs as well and is it worth doing the rears at the same time?
Any suggestions would be good, I want them for fast road rather than track driving, but they need to be good around town as well and not stupidly pricey.
Thanks
WRX, or STI?
WRX brakes are woeful and I really struggled with mine. I ran Godspeed Kevlar Plus pads on the back (German kevlar are more expensive than the Asian Kevlar ones he does deals on in his kits), with a set of EBC Bluestuff up front using Godspeed discs on the front and OEM on the back.
I found that they worked well from cold, ideal as a daily driver, although if you tried to emergency stop before you'd used them the ABS would kick in as the rears tried to do all the braking - solution; do a quick courtesy jab to warm them slightly first. Hot they worked well, until they got too hot and then fell off a cliff. Literally, on a back road (specifically the Dalwhinnie to Spean Bridge road) you would go from having full brakes to literally nothing within two corners such was the instant drop off. Not ideal. Running Bluestuff out back did improve this for a few further corners but not by much.
I've said it elsewhere but the problem with the standard Sumitomo calipers and discs is size; you can get them to work well for day to day, or for performance, but not both. I've driven Gp.N cars with the likes of Mintex M1166 stage pads in them and they're shocking from cold but amazing when hot. Something that works well day to day will work well from cold but be shocking when properly hot. It's all a game of trade offs unfortunately which is why I stumped up the money and went for a set of AP CP5200 4 pot front brakes with 330mm brakes which has literally transformed the car. Later braking, no ABS cut in from imbalance front to rear, way better heat range, and far cheaper pads. It might be extreme for your use, in which case look at the likes of the Pagid or Performance Friction ranges and get some decent discs on there all round if your current ones aren't in good shape. Godspeed discs are awesome, and cheap, but beware that some of the more potent pads will transfer material to the rotor as part of the bed in process. Drive too sedately for too long and that surface will wear through and you'll cook the brakes and have to go through the bed in process to re-treat the rotor surfaces. That's why you get so many complaints about pads in my experience, especially the more race oriented ones. If you go for EBC I'd ignore their track/race pretences and just go for Orangestuff or Bluestuff and ignore those below them in the range. They're great fast road pads but no more. The problem is that the really good pads are all 150+ for the fronts, and 100+ for the rear.
Mintex M1155 might also be a good shout all round, and if your discs are in good shape, I wouldn't be too concerned about swapping them out just as long as the ones on there aren't cheap ebay tat.
WRX brakes are woeful and I really struggled with mine. I ran Godspeed Kevlar Plus pads on the back (German kevlar are more expensive than the Asian Kevlar ones he does deals on in his kits), with a set of EBC Bluestuff up front using Godspeed discs on the front and OEM on the back.
I found that they worked well from cold, ideal as a daily driver, although if you tried to emergency stop before you'd used them the ABS would kick in as the rears tried to do all the braking - solution; do a quick courtesy jab to warm them slightly first. Hot they worked well, until they got too hot and then fell off a cliff. Literally, on a back road (specifically the Dalwhinnie to Spean Bridge road) you would go from having full brakes to literally nothing within two corners such was the instant drop off. Not ideal. Running Bluestuff out back did improve this for a few further corners but not by much.
I've said it elsewhere but the problem with the standard Sumitomo calipers and discs is size; you can get them to work well for day to day, or for performance, but not both. I've driven Gp.N cars with the likes of Mintex M1166 stage pads in them and they're shocking from cold but amazing when hot. Something that works well day to day will work well from cold but be shocking when properly hot. It's all a game of trade offs unfortunately which is why I stumped up the money and went for a set of AP CP5200 4 pot front brakes with 330mm brakes which has literally transformed the car. Later braking, no ABS cut in from imbalance front to rear, way better heat range, and far cheaper pads. It might be extreme for your use, in which case look at the likes of the Pagid or Performance Friction ranges and get some decent discs on there all round if your current ones aren't in good shape. Godspeed discs are awesome, and cheap, but beware that some of the more potent pads will transfer material to the rotor as part of the bed in process. Drive too sedately for too long and that surface will wear through and you'll cook the brakes and have to go through the bed in process to re-treat the rotor surfaces. That's why you get so many complaints about pads in my experience, especially the more race oriented ones. If you go for EBC I'd ignore their track/race pretences and just go for Orangestuff or Bluestuff and ignore those below them in the range. They're great fast road pads but no more. The problem is that the really good pads are all 150+ for the fronts, and 100+ for the rear.
Mintex M1155 might also be a good shout all round, and if your discs are in good shape, I wouldn't be too concerned about swapping them out just as long as the ones on there aren't cheap ebay tat.
It's a WRX. I probably need to get the wheels off and have a good poke around to see if the discs are re-usable, then it sounds like the kevlar pads might be a good option.
I like the idea of some of the higher end pads, but they do get expensive very quickly!
New calipers would be good too, but then it's new discs, pads, wheels etc etc.
I like the idea of some of the higher end pads, but they do get expensive very quickly!
New calipers would be good too, but then it's new discs, pads, wheels etc etc.
callahan said:
It's a WRX. I probably need to get the wheels off and have a good poke around to see if the discs are re-usable, then it sounds like the kevlar pads might be a good option.
I like the idea of some of the higher end pads, but they do get expensive very quickly!
New calipers would be good too, but then it's new discs, pads, wheels etc etc.
It's also worth checking that all the pistons are smooth as the OEM brakes are notorious for corroding pistons. You can get full rebuild kits for yours for 100-150 dependant on whether you go for stainless pistons or not. Godspeed can do them, as can Big Redd. I like the idea of some of the higher end pads, but they do get expensive very quickly!
New calipers would be good too, but then it's new discs, pads, wheels etc etc.
AP setups like mine fit behind standard wheels which was one of my requirements as I run the OEM wheels over the winter with snow tyres, but not all do. Big brake kits should normally come with relevant lines, fittings, adaptors, brackets and rotors/pads. But they're not cheap.
If the rotors are good then just go for pads, but definitely go for the best you can afford, and if you do go Kevlar, go for the German ones. If you want single braking ability from reasonable speeds then Kevlar should be fine but if like me you're more repeated high speed slows with little cool down time between corners then you'd be better looking at something a little more special.
Thanks Ennoch
I think the Kevlar ones will be fine for me, I often have the family in the car so can't push it that hard anyway. Thanks for the tip about the german version, I'll ask when I order them.
I just had a look at the brakes (one advantage of having the standard wheels, there's nice big gaps to look through!)and they look in good condition all round, even the springs, so I think just a set of pads will be fine.
Anything else I need? Never done it myself before and I really don't want to mess it up!
I think the Kevlar ones will be fine for me, I often have the family in the car so can't push it that hard anyway. Thanks for the tip about the german version, I'll ask when I order them.
I just had a look at the brakes (one advantage of having the standard wheels, there's nice big gaps to look through!)and they look in good condition all round, even the springs, so I think just a set of pads will be fine.
Anything else I need? Never done it myself before and I really don't want to mess it up!
callahan said:
Thanks Ennoch
I think the Kevlar ones will be fine for me, I often have the family in the car so can't push it that hard anyway. Thanks for the tip about the german version, I'll ask when I order them.
I just had a look at the brakes (one advantage of having the standard wheels, there's nice big gaps to look through!)and they look in good condition all round, even the springs, so I think just a set of pads will be fine.
Anything else I need? Never done it myself before and I really don't want to mess it up!
No worries at all! I think the Kevlar ones will be fine for me, I often have the family in the car so can't push it that hard anyway. Thanks for the tip about the german version, I'll ask when I order them.
I just had a look at the brakes (one advantage of having the standard wheels, there's nice big gaps to look through!)and they look in good condition all round, even the springs, so I think just a set of pads will be fine.
Anything else I need? Never done it myself before and I really don't want to mess it up!
The thing I love about with Impreza's is that they're so simple to work on; a Hex (rather than Bi-Hex) socket set and a few other tools (as well as a grinder) and you can pretty much fix anything on them. The brakes are straightforward really, easier than standard sliding calipers in many respects as you don't need to use specific piston wind-back tools or remove anything.
This isn't comprehensive, but the basics are there:
Jack up, place on axle stands and remove the wheels. Leave the key in the ignition to keep the steering lock off so you can turn the rack from left to right to get best access to the calipers.
The pins may be a little stuck so I'd use a little plus-gaz and then whack the pins out with a hammer and suitably sized punch (or, if needs must, a t-bar allen hey). Remove the pins, remove the spring and then get a screw driver down between the pistons and the pads to push the pistons back slightly. This should make it easier to lift the pads out although if they're still tight just stick a pair of molegrips on the top and wiggle them out. Push the pistons back all the way, either by hand or by a small plastic ended g-clamp. At this point you should then be able to clean everything up with brake cleaner and re-assemble the shims on the back of the new pads. Drop them in, put in the spring and then push through the top pin first, followed by the lower.
For what it's worth I'd reassemble things with some high temperature brake assembly grease to minimise any future corrosion, and I'd get some rough grit emery cloth on the pins too as they can be quite rough. A quick smear of copperslip should help get them out next time too.
Also, if you're going to put new pads in, get some fresh brake fluid and flush them through - if you have a second body it really doesn't take more than a few minutes a side and is worth doing if it's been more than a year or so since last done. I use Halfords Dot 5.1 as I get it for 5 a litre on trade but there are plenty of decent fluids out there for not huge money if you shop around a little. Ideally you'd use a flare wrench to prevent any rounding of the nipple but if you don't have that a Hex socket could be used to crack it off and then you can revert to a standard ring spanner for the actual bleeding.
No worries, brakes are one of those things that can seem a little daunting the first time you do them but they really aren't that bad once you get going!
My experience is that braided hoses do make a difference, but a lot of what people say they feel is down to the bleed rather than the hoses themselves. Get a large bottle of fluid and flush them through and see how they feel along with the new pads. If you're not really pushing super hard on the pedal I'm not convinced they'd be worth it.
My experience is that braided hoses do make a difference, but a lot of what people say they feel is down to the bleed rather than the hoses themselves. Get a large bottle of fluid and flush them through and see how they feel along with the new pads. If you're not really pushing super hard on the pedal I'm not convinced they'd be worth it.
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