Talk to me about ~2003 WRX wagons....
Discussion
Hi all,
I'm really interested in a 2003ish WRX wagon, most likely with the Prodrive Performance Pack. Just looking for owners opinions really. Things I'd like to know are:
Can you fit a mid sized dog in the boot?
Real world MPG... I can stomach close to 30mpg, 20mpg makes me cry.
Are they reliable if well cared for?
Potential pitfalls/costs of ownership.
Safety - do they all definately have ISOFIX as baby will be going in the middle! (or can front airbag be disabled).
I've had powerful RWD cars, I've not done the 4WD thing and fancy the real world perfomance of an Imprezle. I think the STi might be a bit hardcore, but sub 5 sec in the PPP WRX cars is a real draw. I've been in older Imprezas so I know roughly what I'm getting. It'll be a weekend car, under 6,000 miles a year.
My alternative option would be a 330i estate, but I've had a 328i estate for the last 2 years and fancy a change.
I'm really interested in a 2003ish WRX wagon, most likely with the Prodrive Performance Pack. Just looking for owners opinions really. Things I'd like to know are:
Can you fit a mid sized dog in the boot?
Real world MPG... I can stomach close to 30mpg, 20mpg makes me cry.
Are they reliable if well cared for?
Potential pitfalls/costs of ownership.
Safety - do they all definately have ISOFIX as baby will be going in the middle! (or can front airbag be disabled).
I've had powerful RWD cars, I've not done the 4WD thing and fancy the real world perfomance of an Imprezle. I think the STi might be a bit hardcore, but sub 5 sec in the PPP WRX cars is a real draw. I've been in older Imprezas so I know roughly what I'm getting. It'll be a weekend car, under 6,000 miles a year.
My alternative option would be a 330i estate, but I've had a 328i estate for the last 2 years and fancy a change.
There are lots of differing opinions about mpg on the WRX, PPP, remapped or otherwise.
Figure somewhere between 23-27mpg for average on a run, and that's fully loaded. On a decent hoon/trackday properly pushing it you can easily see mid single figures.
You can get a large and mid sized dog in the back, and all your crap on the back seat. I've done this many times to Scotland and back till i got my Toyota Surf and retired the scoob. Now my dogs think the truck is a mobile hotel
PPP is fine if you don't mind a one size fits all solution however, if you can find a WRX at the right price your savings over what you'd pay for a PPP'd WRX wagon you can spend on a proper Open Source full custom remap and basic mods to get more power and torque than any PPP.
ETA: Yes to the ISOFix with two anchorage points, not sure if it's universal though (3 anchorage points).
Super reliable if looked after, the same as most cars to be fair.
Usual knocks, clangs, whines, etc...to listen out to for from the gbox, diffs and engine, very strong drivetrain and engine though to c.330bhp, to be safe.
Great cars...buy one!!
Figure somewhere between 23-27mpg for average on a run, and that's fully loaded. On a decent hoon/trackday properly pushing it you can easily see mid single figures.
You can get a large and mid sized dog in the back, and all your crap on the back seat. I've done this many times to Scotland and back till i got my Toyota Surf and retired the scoob. Now my dogs think the truck is a mobile hotel
PPP is fine if you don't mind a one size fits all solution however, if you can find a WRX at the right price your savings over what you'd pay for a PPP'd WRX wagon you can spend on a proper Open Source full custom remap and basic mods to get more power and torque than any PPP.
ETA: Yes to the ISOFix with two anchorage points, not sure if it's universal though (3 anchorage points).
Super reliable if looked after, the same as most cars to be fair.
Usual knocks, clangs, whines, etc...to listen out to for from the gbox, diffs and engine, very strong drivetrain and engine though to c.330bhp, to be safe.
Great cars...buy one!!
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Monday 23 January 16:03
ScoobieWRX said:
PPP is fine if you don't mind a one size fits all solution however, if you can find a WRX at the right price your savings over what you'd pay for a PPP'd WRX wagon you can spend on a proper Open Source full custom remap and basic mods to get more power and torque than any PPP.
Ok, that's nice to know. So buy the best WRX rather than necessarily the PPP? I suppose then you also have the peace of mind that it's not been pushing 265bhp all it's life too, with associated wear and tear.Thing is ,having owned a 200SX before I know the pervasive tuning bug - and I'm not in a position where I can justify spending a few hundred a montth on 'improving' a car. I think I need to sell the car to the wife as a sealed package too to get it past her!
If I do opt for the Scooby it will need to be b
ding quick to make up for the image/reduced refinement against a 3 series. Don't worry 265bhp is plenty bding quick enough for the likes of me! (Or public roads, IMO)....3 cats on a WRX. Get the uppipe (precat) and the cat after the main cat in the downpipe (scrubber cat) decatted (straight through), leaving just the main cat in the downpipe to get you through emissions testing at MOT time.
Flat panel air filter swap (K&N, Green Panel, etc...) and a full custom remap, and jobs a goodun. Do it once and do it right.
You'll easily keep up with and be a tad quicker than a standard STi as you'll have more bhp and torque, you're lighter, and will make 1 less gearchange than the STi up to your top end which should see 150-155mph. That's quick enough for most.
A WRX pushing 265+bhp is no less reliable than a WRX making 225bhp, however, I would rather map for more power (300+) a WRX than's been making 265-280bhp all it's life than one that's been run standard and unstressed.
Stressed engines get stronger over time if they haven't gone pop. They run hotter, the engine block and metal components become heat cycled over over a long period of time and this changes the character (structure) of the material, making it harder/stronger.
I'd rather map a car up to 330bhp that's made 270-280bhp+ all it's life and it's a shorter jump in bhp, than a standard car that you're suddenly adding 100bhp+ to that's never been stressed.
Flat panel air filter swap (K&N, Green Panel, etc...) and a full custom remap, and jobs a goodun. Do it once and do it right.
You'll easily keep up with and be a tad quicker than a standard STi as you'll have more bhp and torque, you're lighter, and will make 1 less gearchange than the STi up to your top end which should see 150-155mph. That's quick enough for most.
A WRX pushing 265+bhp is no less reliable than a WRX making 225bhp, however, I would rather map for more power (300+) a WRX than's been making 265-280bhp all it's life than one that's been run standard and unstressed.
Stressed engines get stronger over time if they haven't gone pop. They run hotter, the engine block and metal components become heat cycled over over a long period of time and this changes the character (structure) of the material, making it harder/stronger.
I'd rather map a car up to 330bhp that's made 270-280bhp+ all it's life and it's a shorter jump in bhp, than a standard car that you're suddenly adding 100bhp+ to that's never been stressed.
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Monday 23 January 16:23
ScoobieWRX said:
In which case i apologise for the reply but i read that kind of comment so often it gets very tired. Difficult to know on a forum when someone is joking.
I'll just...
Nah, don't worry. We know each other from elsewhere. And I've got a drum of plod repellent paint from Netto.I'll just...
Any ideas on mapping costs/ cost to get a WRX up to PPP performance? I want to buy the best car I can, and taking £1k out of the budget to save for 'frivilous' mapping hurts what I can get for the cash.
Mapping seems to be about £500 - plus £300 for a couple of pipes?
WeirdNeville said:
Hi all,
I'm really interested in a 2003ish WRX wagon, most likely with the Prodrive Performance Pack. Just looking for owners opinions really. Things I'd like to know are:
Can you fit a mid sized dog in the boot?
Real world MPG... I can stomach close to 30mpg, 20mpg makes me cry.
Are they reliable if well cared for?
Potential pitfalls/costs of ownership.
Safety - do they all definately have ISOFIX as baby will be going in the middle! (or can front airbag be disabled).
I've had powerful RWD cars, I've not done the 4WD thing and fancy the real world perfomance of an Imprezle. I think the STi might be a bit hardcore, but sub 5 sec in the PPP WRX cars is a real draw. I've been in older Imprezas so I know roughly what I'm getting. It'll be a weekend car, under 6,000 miles a year.
My alternative option would be a 330i estate, but I've had a 328i estate for the last 2 years and fancy a change.
Can you fit a mid sized dog in the boot? Yes no bother. The boot is not huge though but is much more practical than the saloon. It's worth getting the OEM boot liner which would work even better with the dog.I'm really interested in a 2003ish WRX wagon, most likely with the Prodrive Performance Pack. Just looking for owners opinions really. Things I'd like to know are:
Can you fit a mid sized dog in the boot?
Real world MPG... I can stomach close to 30mpg, 20mpg makes me cry.
Are they reliable if well cared for?
Potential pitfalls/costs of ownership.
Safety - do they all definately have ISOFIX as baby will be going in the middle! (or can front airbag be disabled).
I've had powerful RWD cars, I've not done the 4WD thing and fancy the real world perfomance of an Imprezle. I think the STi might be a bit hardcore, but sub 5 sec in the PPP WRX cars is a real draw. I've been in older Imprezas so I know roughly what I'm getting. It'll be a weekend car, under 6,000 miles a year.
My alternative option would be a 330i estate, but I've had a 328i estate for the last 2 years and fancy a change.
Real world MPG... I can stomach close to 30mpg, 20mpg makes me cry. Mine does 24mpg in town, 30mpg on a cruise. Realistically you'd get high 20's as long as you keep it out of heavy traffic.
Are they reliable if well cared for? Yes if you find a good one. Pretty easy cars to work on. Lots of options for parts and plenty support since the bugeye/blobeye/hawkeye are all similar.
Potential pitfalls/costs of ownership. Watch for knocking rear shocks although you can get replacements for pretty cheap.
Safety - do they all definately have ISOFIX as baby will be going in the middle! (or can front airbag be disabled). Can't disbale the airbag. I believe there is ISOFIX in the rear - you'd be best to Google for a pdf brochure to find out.
Mine's a PPP and I think the car would feel a bit lost without it. If you want to do it cost effective then get a PPP or Stage 1 car that's been done by someone with a reputation. You'd need more than just PPP mods to get near 300hp reliably.
Hope that helps a bit.
WeirdNeville said:
ah, don't worry. We know each other from elsewhere. And I've got a drum of plod repellent paint from Netto.
Any ideas on mapping costs/ cost to get a WRX up to PPP performance? I want to buy the best car I can, and taking £1k out of the budget to save for 'frivilous' mapping hurts what I can get for the cash.
Mapping seems to be about £500 - plus £300 for a couple of pipes?
I'll send you some mail Any ideas on mapping costs/ cost to get a WRX up to PPP performance? I want to buy the best car I can, and taking £1k out of the budget to save for 'frivilous' mapping hurts what I can get for the cash.
Mapping seems to be about £500 - plus £300 for a couple of pipes?
mmcd87 said:
Can you fit a mid sized dog in the boot? Yes no bother. The boot is not huge though but is much more practical than the saloon. It's worth getting the OEM boot liner which would work even better with the dog.
Real world MPG... I can stomach close to 30mpg, 20mpg makes me cry. Mine does 24mpg in town, 30mpg on a cruise. Realistically you'd get high 20's as long as you keep it out of heavy traffic.
Are they reliable if well cared for? Yes if you find a good one. Pretty easy cars to work on. Lots of options for parts and plenty support since the bugeye/blobeye/hawkeye are all similar.
Potential pitfalls/costs of ownership. Watch for knocking rear shocks although you can get replacements for pretty cheap.
Safety - do they all definately have ISOFIX as baby will be going in the middle! (or can front airbag be disabled). Can't disbale the airbag. I believe there is ISOFIX in the rear - you'd be best to Google for a pdf brochure to find out.
Mine's a PPP and I think the car would feel a bit lost without it. If you want to do it cost effective then get a PPP or Stage 1 car that's been done by someone with a reputation. You'd need more than just PPP mods to get near 300hp reliably.
Hope that helps a bit.
You won't get 300bhp from a TD04 reliably unless you're using some methanol or ethanol in the mix and the injectors will be working serious overtime to deliver enough fuel on their own unless you fit an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, in which case you'd better change the fuel pump as well for a Walbro/Sytec 255lph. Real world MPG... I can stomach close to 30mpg, 20mpg makes me cry. Mine does 24mpg in town, 30mpg on a cruise. Realistically you'd get high 20's as long as you keep it out of heavy traffic.
Are they reliable if well cared for? Yes if you find a good one. Pretty easy cars to work on. Lots of options for parts and plenty support since the bugeye/blobeye/hawkeye are all similar.
Potential pitfalls/costs of ownership. Watch for knocking rear shocks although you can get replacements for pretty cheap.
Safety - do they all definately have ISOFIX as baby will be going in the middle! (or can front airbag be disabled). Can't disbale the airbag. I believe there is ISOFIX in the rear - you'd be best to Google for a pdf brochure to find out.
Mine's a PPP and I think the car would feel a bit lost without it. If you want to do it cost effective then get a PPP or Stage 1 car that's been done by someone with a reputation. You'd need more than just PPP mods to get near 300hp reliably.
Hope that helps a bit.
A full custom remap is much better than any PPP, and will make more power and more torque and generally drive better with no flat spots!! Because every single car is different a custom solution exactly tailored to the car and it's mods is always the best way to go.
The WRX needs the PPP or equivalent modifications. The PPP is neat because some insurers recognise it (Admiral) as a model, where as if you do the mods separate then you need to declare each one (which may not be a problem if your doing other mods anyway).
I doubt you will get the mods done for the same money or less than the price difference between a standard WRX and one with the PPP.
Great car.
I doubt you will get the mods done for the same money or less than the price difference between a standard WRX and one with the PPP.
Great car.
ScoobieWRX said:
A full custom remap is much better than any PPP, and will make more power and more torque and generally drive better with no flat spots!! Because every single car is different a custom solution exactly tailored to the car and it's mods is always the best way to go.
Yeah, but the majority wont notice a huge difference... The PPP is often slated, but I thought its okay for a road car and provides a convenient package...paulmoonraker said:
The WRX needs the PPP or equivalent modifications. The PPP is neat because some insurers recognise it (Admiral) as a model, where as if you do the mods separate then you need to declare each one (which may not be a problem if your doing other mods anyway).
I doubt you will get the mods done for the same money or less than the price difference between a standard WRX and one with the PPP.
Great car.
That's interesting as I'm currently with Admiral and they quoted a shade under £600 for a theoretical WRX with a remap and big brakes. Might be handy to go down the PPPPPPPP route then, unless a bargainacious WRX comes up. I think I'll try and be blind to that and just buy the best car I can. No doubt many will have been mapped anyway, and if it's a verifyable state of tune with reciepts then that's nothing to be scared of.I doubt you will get the mods done for the same money or less than the price difference between a standard WRX and one with the PPP.
Great car.
All exicited now, can't wait to go car shopping!
Scooby WRX- Cheers for the email, I will very much bear you in mind should the right car come up in the "wrong" state of tune. You're not a million miles from me!
I don't disagree that there are lots of owners of PPP'd Impreza both WRX and STi that are more than happy with their PPP, and more power to their elbow if that's enough for them. PPP serves a purpose and that's great. I've always said that.
However, there are plenty of Impreza owners that aren't happy with their PPP which is why they go and mod their cars further still in the pursuit of more go, and delving into the realms of bigger turbos and injectors.
It's the extra torque and the way the car drives generally that's makes a noticeable difference on a WRX even when it's been PPP'd previously. PPP WRX's don't make 300-310ft/lb torque, they don't start spooling properly or make a bar of boost from as early as 2400-2600rpm, and that's where the difference lies, not the extra 10-15+bhp over and above the PPP which most people would find hard to notice.
This is the reason a lot of PPP owners stick to their PPP because they don't feel 10-15bhp is worth the expense of a remap. However, what they don't realise is that bhp is only part of the equation. Unfortunately people in the UK are so hung up on bhp numbers that they can't see the torque for the trees and don't know the whole truth of it.
PPP runs virtually standard timing and fueling, there's not a huge difference from OEM. All it does, on a WRX anyway, is turn up the boost to make that extra 40 odd bhp over standard. You could almost have the same effect if you did the WRX PPP physical mods and got yourself a manual boost controller and turned up the wick a bit on that. You wouldn't be far off.
Yep...PPP is just fine
However, there are plenty of Impreza owners that aren't happy with their PPP which is why they go and mod their cars further still in the pursuit of more go, and delving into the realms of bigger turbos and injectors.
It's the extra torque and the way the car drives generally that's makes a noticeable difference on a WRX even when it's been PPP'd previously. PPP WRX's don't make 300-310ft/lb torque, they don't start spooling properly or make a bar of boost from as early as 2400-2600rpm, and that's where the difference lies, not the extra 10-15+bhp over and above the PPP which most people would find hard to notice.
This is the reason a lot of PPP owners stick to their PPP because they don't feel 10-15bhp is worth the expense of a remap. However, what they don't realise is that bhp is only part of the equation. Unfortunately people in the UK are so hung up on bhp numbers that they can't see the torque for the trees and don't know the whole truth of it.
PPP runs virtually standard timing and fueling, there's not a huge difference from OEM. All it does, on a WRX anyway, is turn up the boost to make that extra 40 odd bhp over standard. You could almost have the same effect if you did the WRX PPP physical mods and got yourself a manual boost controller and turned up the wick a bit on that. You wouldn't be far off.
Yep...PPP is just fine
I've had my 03 WRX since 2009. The only costs above general maintenance have been; a key re-programme - £60, EGR valve - £130, brake caliper overhaul £50 and now a radiator expansion tank - £130. As for fuel consumption, I travel 48 miles a day, up and down the M4. If I drive at around 60mph, I can get 310 miles from a full tank (Tesco 99 octane), or 280-ish at around 75-80mph. As for modifications, I've removed two of the three catalytic converters and now have a straight-through system. I've also had it remapped, as well. The re-map and exhaust upgrade are so well worth doing and I recommend it to any Impreza owner. The re-map was £350 and exhaust mod around £180. I've also swapped the air panel filter to a K&N.
I use my wagon for absolutely everything including tip runs and ferrying the dog around. It's so practical for what it is, plus you can go hooning with fellow PH'ers without feeling out of place just because you drive an estate. Mine's just clicked round to 114,500 miles and I'm going to be really stuck to know what to replace it with when the time comes.
I can't recommend buying one enough. And, you've got the added benefit of 4WD, which comes in handy more times than you think.
I use my wagon for absolutely everything including tip runs and ferrying the dog around. It's so practical for what it is, plus you can go hooning with fellow PH'ers without feeling out of place just because you drive an estate. Mine's just clicked round to 114,500 miles and I'm going to be really stuck to know what to replace it with when the time comes.
I can't recommend buying one enough. And, you've got the added benefit of 4WD, which comes in handy more times than you think.
edar said:
I've had my 03 WRX since 2009. The only costs above general maintenance have been; a key re-programme - £60, EGR valve - £130, brake caliper overhaul £50 and now a radiator expansion tank - £130. As for fuel consumption, I travel 48 miles a day, up and down the M4. If I drive at around 60mph, I can get 310 miles from a full tank (Tesco 99 octane), or 280-ish at around 75-80mph. As for modifications, I've removed two of the three catalytic converters and now have a straight-through system. I've also had it remapped, as well. The re-map and exhaust upgrade are so well worth doing and I recommend it to any Impreza owner. The re-map was £350 and exhaust mod around £180. I've also swapped the air panel filter to a K&N.
I use my wagon for absolutely everything including tip runs and ferrying the dog around. It's so practical for what it is, plus you can go hooning with fellow PH'ers without feeling out of place just because you drive an estate. Mine's just clicked round to 114,500 miles and I'm going to be really stuck to know what to replace it with when the time comes.
I can't recommend buying one enough. And, you've got the added benefit of 4WD, which comes in handy more times than you think.
How about another scoobywagon, only a bit newer I use my wagon for absolutely everything including tip runs and ferrying the dog around. It's so practical for what it is, plus you can go hooning with fellow PH'ers without feeling out of place just because you drive an estate. Mine's just clicked round to 114,500 miles and I'm going to be really stuck to know what to replace it with when the time comes.
I can't recommend buying one enough. And, you've got the added benefit of 4WD, which comes in handy more times than you think.
Well, finally plumped for an Impreza! Put a deposit down on a '54 WRX PPP wagon today. 53k miles and 3 owners, it's got leather recaros and pretty much everything that I wanted! Certainly goes well enough for now. Complete service history wih reciepts ,it's never gone more than 6k miles without fresh fully synth oil. Even my wife is excited about it (I've always wanted one of those!).
Dead happy, will pick it up later this week!
Dead happy, will pick it up later this week!
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