Sin Bins to be introduced to pro footie
Discussion
Only as a trial to begin with but I'd hope they roll this out asap - would need refs to actually follow through with putting people in there though.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/1301...
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/1301...
I think football has so many issues that even something like this is unlikely to make the game better.
- Football officiating is really poor across all professional leagues. There is a huge amount of inconsistency and when you drop down to Championship and Leages 1/2 it's abysmal.
- VAR has done nothing except ruined the rhythm of the game, slowed it down, made it far less spontaneous. We now have long debates over whether someones finger or toe is offside. It may all be helpful in determining whether a goal is legal but for enjoying the game it just makes it so much more difficult.
- The respect shown by managers and coaching staff is a big issue. I see them often screaming at refs or having huge outbursts.
- A lot of the disrespect is embedded in the culture of the game. It's not about being sent off for verbal dissent or something, but it's when you see players reactions, their facial expressions, their hand gestures as they basically are telling the ref to f##k off
The total lack of respect for the officials is a massive issue that needs stamping on very hard.
No wonder no one wants to do it. Not sure a sin bin will help, but it might if used freely.
Players and coaches need to keep gobs shut.
Any sort of verbal etc directed at an official should be an immediate yellow/red card.
Any appealing should be penalised.
You ask for a card for someone else = you get one.
Only with a massive disciplinary shake up will football get back some of the respect it has lost over the years.
No wonder no one wants to do it. Not sure a sin bin will help, but it might if used freely.
Players and coaches need to keep gobs shut.
Any sort of verbal etc directed at an official should be an immediate yellow/red card.
Any appealing should be penalised.
You ask for a card for someone else = you get one.
Only with a massive disciplinary shake up will football get back some of the respect it has lost over the years.
I'm an umpire in hockey. We have Sin Bins (2min 5 min, 10 mins or Red, which is a 3 month ban).
Only captains can speak to umpires.
Umpires are taught to try and have empathy with the players, and try to understand a potentially emotive reaction.
As an umpire, this is what I try and do, and when I look at the players reaction, and think I might have it wrong, I can consult with my other umpire (2 in hockey at opposite ends of the pitch). All this serves to bring emotional temperature down a little. Though in the end of the day, the umpires decision is final.
Seems to work pretty well in hockey. Umpires are generally respected, and there is very little abuse of the type that is seen in football. I'm pretty happy to umpire, and I certainly don't worry that I will be hounded or hassled excessively.
Is this because of the money? Or something else. Dunno. But hockey players are generally very nice people.
Only captains can speak to umpires.
Umpires are taught to try and have empathy with the players, and try to understand a potentially emotive reaction.
As an umpire, this is what I try and do, and when I look at the players reaction, and think I might have it wrong, I can consult with my other umpire (2 in hockey at opposite ends of the pitch). All this serves to bring emotional temperature down a little. Though in the end of the day, the umpires decision is final.
Seems to work pretty well in hockey. Umpires are generally respected, and there is very little abuse of the type that is seen in football. I'm pretty happy to umpire, and I certainly don't worry that I will be hounded or hassled excessively.
Is this because of the money? Or something else. Dunno. But hockey players are generally very nice people.
Fundamentally I am 100% behind this. It works in the lower levels and for other sports. Yellow cards are, for the most part, utterly meaningless and pointless.
However, reading the article they say they are trialling sin bins for dissent and tactical fouls. I don't see why it can't be for any yellow card offence, this is just overcomplicating it. There is enough evidence and experience for it to work much more simply from other sports and previous trials
Cameras on refs and captains only allowed to approach the ref should be introduced too. Football is stuck in the past compared to any other sport.
As mentioned above, money will drive this. Sponsors don't want to be associated with cheating, fouling players, players swearing at the ref etc. Whatever the reason it's about time they got their house in order and brought it up to date.
However, reading the article they say they are trialling sin bins for dissent and tactical fouls. I don't see why it can't be for any yellow card offence, this is just overcomplicating it. There is enough evidence and experience for it to work much more simply from other sports and previous trials
Cameras on refs and captains only allowed to approach the ref should be introduced too. Football is stuck in the past compared to any other sport.
As mentioned above, money will drive this. Sponsors don't want to be associated with cheating, fouling players, players swearing at the ref etc. Whatever the reason it's about time they got their house in order and brought it up to date.
Player and manager behaviour has just gotten worse and worse over the years, and nothing has been done to slow down the relentless abuse they dish out to officials. When they dont get a decision they run over to lines officials and scream in their face, it quite simply put is just not on. What other sport, really, allows the participants to verbally abuse the officials this way - its time they stop using the 'its in the emotion of the moment' as a catch all excuse for quite simply behaving like an abusive prick.
The other huge problem, is the diving and cheating. Players now think that 'contact' automatically equals the opportunity to be given a foul. A slight coming together results in a player who is likely to lose the ball flinging himself to the ground and winning a freekick. I bet if you add up the time spent restarting the game from these moments where players cheat (yes they cheat regularly) it far outweighs the VAR stoppages yet pundits ignore this and focus on the easy target.
Players and staff should not be allowed to approach officials to question decisions full stop as an absolute minimum.
The other huge problem, is the diving and cheating. Players now think that 'contact' automatically equals the opportunity to be given a foul. A slight coming together results in a player who is likely to lose the ball flinging himself to the ground and winning a freekick. I bet if you add up the time spent restarting the game from these moments where players cheat (yes they cheat regularly) it far outweighs the VAR stoppages yet pundits ignore this and focus on the easy target.
Players and staff should not be allowed to approach officials to question decisions full stop as an absolute minimum.
I don't know why they have to continually change the rules in football. What was wrong with it 20 years ago? Nothing!
Bin VAR and stop pissing about with these silly rule changes FFS. None of it is improving the game. They can't even get decisions right after watching a video, so what value is it bringing apart from making it more tedious to watch.
Bin VAR and stop pissing about with these silly rule changes FFS. None of it is improving the game. They can't even get decisions right after watching a video, so what value is it bringing apart from making it more tedious to watch.
I can't help feeling that if the officials enforced the letter of the laws as they exist, with zero tolerence, there wouldn't need to be these ever increasingly silly suggestions from IFAB. You might end up with 7 v 7 games for a couple of weeks but players would get the message very quickly.
TameRacingDriver said:
I don't know why they have to continually change the rules in football. What was wrong with it 20 years ago? Nothing!
Bin VAR and stop pissing about with these silly rule changes FFS. None of it is improving the game. They can't even get decisions right after watching a video, so what value is it bringing apart from making it more tedious to watch.
Ironically it usually is players/managers/fans displeasure at rules that we end up with rule changes being made, then they don't like that either WHEN it goes against their team. Obviously if its in their favour there is always a rye smile and a shrug of the shoulders from the manager. Bin VAR and stop pissing about with these silly rule changes FFS. None of it is improving the game. They can't even get decisions right after watching a video, so what value is it bringing apart from making it more tedious to watch.
Sin bins are being introduced to punish dissent. You know what would be the better solution, just dont dissent. Like in other sports where on the whole participants do not scream in the face of officials at every single decision against them, just do that.
Players and managers need to get over themselves.
coldel said:
Ironically it usually is players/managers/fans displeasure at rules that we end up with rule changes being made, then they don't like that either WHEN it goes against their team. Obviously if its in their favour there is always a rye smile and a shrug of the shoulders from the manager.
Sin bins are being introduced to punish dissent. You know what would be the better solution, just dont dissent. Like in other sports where on the whole participants do not scream in the face of officials at every single decision against them, just do that.
Players and managers need to get over themselves.
Indeed, I don't know why we can't just pare it all back and accept that there will be an element of human error in the game from time to time and just get on with it. Sometimes luck will be on your side, sometimes it won't. Sin bins are being introduced to punish dissent. You know what would be the better solution, just dont dissent. Like in other sports where on the whole participants do not scream in the face of officials at every single decision against them, just do that.
Players and managers need to get over themselves.
As far as I can tell the likes of VAR does not help with this at all, because sometimes the wrong decision is made even then. Look at Newcastle's match against PSG, the penalty simply wasn't a penalty. The ref made the right call at the start but after watching VAR decided that it was one, and this cost us 2 points and might be the difference between us qualifying and not.
So we lost out there, so what is the benefit? Unless it can be proven that it eliminates all human error then to me it's useless, it ruins the flow of the game, and causes tedious arguments.
If a referee is proven to make consistently bad decisions then that will come out in the wash and they'll be replaced.
As for sin bins for bad behaviour, you're right, if they just enforce the rules they have then it'll work out alright. How about instead the ref just sends off any player that abuses him? The player will then receive a ban and it'll soon put a stop to that.
TameRacingDriver said:
I don't know why they have to continually change the rules in football. What was wrong with it 20 years ago? Nothing!
Bin VAR and stop pissing about with these silly rule changes FFS. None of it is improving the game. They can't even get decisions right after watching a video, so what value is it bringing apart from making it more tedious to watch.
What? How about, for the past few decades:Bin VAR and stop pissing about with these silly rule changes FFS. None of it is improving the game. They can't even get decisions right after watching a video, so what value is it bringing apart from making it more tedious to watch.
Players introducing blatant cheating into the game
Players pressurising the ref when they don't like the decision by crowding around him
Managers/staff pressurising the ARs etc for the same reason as above
Players making tactical fouls
Players deliberately time-wasting
Players swearing at officials
I could go on...
Most football fans recognise the sport's failings and, for such a high profile sport, it is lagging behind massively in terms of sorting its issues out and bringing itself into the 21st century. No other sport in the world is so entrenched in the past.
TameRacingDriver said:
Indeed, I don't know why we can't just pare it all back and accept that there will be an element of human error in the game from time to time and just get on with it. Sometimes luck will be on your side, sometimes it won't.
As far as I can tell the likes of VAR does not help with this at all, because sometimes the wrong decision is made even then. Look at Newcastle's match against PSG, the penalty simply wasn't a penalty. The ref made the right call at the start but after watching VAR decided that it was one, and this cost us 2 points and might be the difference between us qualifying and not.
So we lost out there, so what is the benefit? Unless it can be proven that it eliminates all human error then to me it's useless, it ruins the flow of the game, and causes tedious arguments.
If a referee is proven to make consistently bad decisions then that will come out in the wash and they'll be replaced.
As for sin bins for bad behaviour, you're right, if they just enforce the rules they have then it'll work out alright. How about instead the ref just sends off any player that abuses him? The player will then receive a ban and it'll soon put a stop to that.
I watched the PSG game and was really rooting for Newcastle, and I agree, it 'shouldnt have' been a penalty but the referee correctly gave one according to the rules that exist for handball in that competition. This isn't VARs fault, this is the fault of the rule makers. As far as I can tell the likes of VAR does not help with this at all, because sometimes the wrong decision is made even then. Look at Newcastle's match against PSG, the penalty simply wasn't a penalty. The ref made the right call at the start but after watching VAR decided that it was one, and this cost us 2 points and might be the difference between us qualifying and not.
So we lost out there, so what is the benefit? Unless it can be proven that it eliminates all human error then to me it's useless, it ruins the flow of the game, and causes tedious arguments.
If a referee is proven to make consistently bad decisions then that will come out in the wash and they'll be replaced.
As for sin bins for bad behaviour, you're right, if they just enforce the rules they have then it'll work out alright. How about instead the ref just sends off any player that abuses him? The player will then receive a ban and it'll soon put a stop to that.
I would love to see players sent off for dissent, but can imagine it would be chaos as they have all gotten used to being allowed to scream what they want at an official. If a ref told a player to f
k off, can you imagine the uproar from the clubs we would see. Sin bins are a sticky plaster for the problem - its up to the clubs and players to behave properly to solve the root cause, but they wont.
Frimley111R said:
What? How about, for the past few decades:
Players introducing blatant cheating into the game
Players pressurising the ref when they don't like the decision by crowding around him
Managers/staff pressurising the ARs etc for the same reason as above
Players making tactical fouls
Players deliberately time-wasting
Players swearing at officials
I could go on...
Most football fans recognise the sport's failings and, for such a high profile sport, it is lagging behind massively in terms of sorting its issues out and bringing itself into the 21st century. No other sport in the world is so entrenched in the past.
I take your point, but I still think the easiest solution to the problem is to start sending players off it. Players introducing blatant cheating into the game
Players pressurising the ref when they don't like the decision by crowding around him
Managers/staff pressurising the ARs etc for the same reason as above
Players making tactical fouls
Players deliberately time-wasting
Players swearing at officials
I could go on...
Most football fans recognise the sport's failings and, for such a high profile sport, it is lagging behind massively in terms of sorting its issues out and bringing itself into the 21st century. No other sport in the world is so entrenched in the past.
Will be a very tough lesson to learn at first but they'll soon learn.
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