FA Combating Unacceptable Behaviour in Junior Grassroots
Discussion
https://juniorgrassroots.uk/fa-statement-unaccepta...
Looking to share experiences and opinions on the FA's drive to stamp out (their words) unacceptable behavior in junior grassroots football.
Over the five seasons I've managed my team, we've been ok, broadly speaking. The odd exchange of words on the touchline, usually with the (parent) linesman with a twitchy arm. We have had to report two clubs; one of which we have recently reported for the third time. I'm just a bit miffed about the process as there doesn't appear to be much of a deterrent. If the club is fined, it's easy to spend someone else's money and the beat goes on. The league gets a bit of cash coming in and well, that's it.
As far as reporting it to the FA, we've done that too. The first one was when the manager and his assistant disrupted the game by running onto the pitch to accost the referee. The assistant was running the line and he tried to flag a foul (in his opinion). The referee wanted the game to play on as there was no obvious advantage and he, on reflection, didn't see it as a foul. This was the basis of the argument and given we'd already had some previous with them (manager was red carded for swearing at the 16-year-old referee) I decided to evidence the disruption, and the pair of them rollicking the ref, by recording it on my phone. One of them became aware of this and they turned their attention to me. It was nothing more than a bit of name calling, but not in the spirit of sportsmanship in front of (then) 12/13-year-olds.
We had to face them again so I requested the FA send a representative to mingle with the crowd. They did, and TBH, he seemed to be delighted with the day out and told me how much he enjoyed watching the game. He didn't tune in to the constant narrative of the other team's manager and his sidekick directing all their hatred towards me and my assistant. The FA concluded that they were happy to draw a line under the investigation.
Three weeks ago, we played them again. This time, the assistant - again, running the line - started having a go at the referee. He then aimed some of it at my players after they reacted to him calling some very questionable off-sides and fouls. The temperature rose and he switched his attention to my assistant coach (a young guy studying performance arts at uni) and started to have a bite at him and his hair style among other things. My assistant has his arm in a sling after dislocating his shoulder in a dance move that went wrong.
During the game the other team were in an attacking phase and as their player dribbled into our half, our keeper shouted for our defender to 'take him out wide' which allowed the rest of the team to regroup. The move was successful as the ball went out of play. Their manager then shouted, "Did you hear that, boys? He said TAKE HIM OUT. What are we going to do about that?" From that point on, bad tackles flew in and tempers flared. The referee was having none of it and duly sent off one of their players after he called him an effing prick and then he sent off the assistant manager linesman for his unacceptable behavior (should also be noted that the referee is about 20 and autistic, but a good referee nonetheless).
After the game, as expected, there were some afters and despite my best efforts to keep everyone apart, their assistant manager came over and offered my assistant out for a fight. A few words were exchanged and he shoved my assistant, aiming for his injured arm, and then struck his face as he shouted, 'come on then big man'. The referee saw the whole thing as did a few parents.
Now, what is the FA doing? I'd really like to know. So far, the head of our county FA has left her role (nobody knew about this) and the Designated Safeguarding Office has too (yep, nobody knew about this either). Three days passed before we were discovered that the people to contact were no longer in their positions.
There is an investigation under way, but the 'independent' chap has already laid down a marker to say that an assault charge cannot be upheld without an injury, but only a charge of improper conduct. W, T A F? Furthermore, the local league say that a club needs to be reported five times in order to be booted out of the league.
The zero tolerance policy isn't looking so strict imho.
Looking to share experiences and opinions on the FA's drive to stamp out (their words) unacceptable behavior in junior grassroots football.
Over the five seasons I've managed my team, we've been ok, broadly speaking. The odd exchange of words on the touchline, usually with the (parent) linesman with a twitchy arm. We have had to report two clubs; one of which we have recently reported for the third time. I'm just a bit miffed about the process as there doesn't appear to be much of a deterrent. If the club is fined, it's easy to spend someone else's money and the beat goes on. The league gets a bit of cash coming in and well, that's it.
As far as reporting it to the FA, we've done that too. The first one was when the manager and his assistant disrupted the game by running onto the pitch to accost the referee. The assistant was running the line and he tried to flag a foul (in his opinion). The referee wanted the game to play on as there was no obvious advantage and he, on reflection, didn't see it as a foul. This was the basis of the argument and given we'd already had some previous with them (manager was red carded for swearing at the 16-year-old referee) I decided to evidence the disruption, and the pair of them rollicking the ref, by recording it on my phone. One of them became aware of this and they turned their attention to me. It was nothing more than a bit of name calling, but not in the spirit of sportsmanship in front of (then) 12/13-year-olds.
We had to face them again so I requested the FA send a representative to mingle with the crowd. They did, and TBH, he seemed to be delighted with the day out and told me how much he enjoyed watching the game. He didn't tune in to the constant narrative of the other team's manager and his sidekick directing all their hatred towards me and my assistant. The FA concluded that they were happy to draw a line under the investigation.
Three weeks ago, we played them again. This time, the assistant - again, running the line - started having a go at the referee. He then aimed some of it at my players after they reacted to him calling some very questionable off-sides and fouls. The temperature rose and he switched his attention to my assistant coach (a young guy studying performance arts at uni) and started to have a bite at him and his hair style among other things. My assistant has his arm in a sling after dislocating his shoulder in a dance move that went wrong.
During the game the other team were in an attacking phase and as their player dribbled into our half, our keeper shouted for our defender to 'take him out wide' which allowed the rest of the team to regroup. The move was successful as the ball went out of play. Their manager then shouted, "Did you hear that, boys? He said TAKE HIM OUT. What are we going to do about that?" From that point on, bad tackles flew in and tempers flared. The referee was having none of it and duly sent off one of their players after he called him an effing prick and then he sent off the assistant manager linesman for his unacceptable behavior (should also be noted that the referee is about 20 and autistic, but a good referee nonetheless).
After the game, as expected, there were some afters and despite my best efforts to keep everyone apart, their assistant manager came over and offered my assistant out for a fight. A few words were exchanged and he shoved my assistant, aiming for his injured arm, and then struck his face as he shouted, 'come on then big man'. The referee saw the whole thing as did a few parents.
Now, what is the FA doing? I'd really like to know. So far, the head of our county FA has left her role (nobody knew about this) and the Designated Safeguarding Office has too (yep, nobody knew about this either). Three days passed before we were discovered that the people to contact were no longer in their positions.
There is an investigation under way, but the 'independent' chap has already laid down a marker to say that an assault charge cannot be upheld without an injury, but only a charge of improper conduct. W, T A F? Furthermore, the local league say that a club needs to be reported five times in order to be booted out of the league.
The zero tolerance policy isn't looking so strict imho.
Edited by Glassman on Monday 28th November 10:43
Glassman, we haven't had experiences as bad as yours, but you're right that the FA should do more, in particular about:
- the standard of refereeing (a lot of people reffing evidently haven't even read the rules - e.g. not making players stand back anything like the right distance for dead balls)
- facilities (grass and 3G)
- coaching ... one of the big issues is coaches continually having a go at refs.
- the standard of refereeing (a lot of people reffing evidently haven't even read the rules - e.g. not making players stand back anything like the right distance for dead balls)
- facilities (grass and 3G)
- coaching ... one of the big issues is coaches continually having a go at refs.
I stopped taking my son to kids football.
It was just utterly unpleasant at so many levels. The fact you need a respect barrier for the parents at games for young kids is ridiculous. But then some of the parental behaviour is just awful.
It's a real shame the sport attracts some of the worst parts of society.
It was just utterly unpleasant at so many levels. The fact you need a respect barrier for the parents at games for young kids is ridiculous. But then some of the parental behaviour is just awful.
It's a real shame the sport attracts some of the worst parts of society.
My younger brother used to play for his Independent School who put a team in the local league.
Watching matches were both hilarious and horrifying in equal amounts. The language out of the parents on one side quite often had the other side having quiet words about the language and how they didn't want their kids hearing it, resulting in punches being thrown on a few occasions.
Highlight was a 4x4 driving onto a pitch on a council estate at an away game, trying to run the home keeper over due to unpaid drug debts.
Football does seem to bring out the proper dregs of society at all levels that no other sport I've come across does.
Watching matches were both hilarious and horrifying in equal amounts. The language out of the parents on one side quite often had the other side having quiet words about the language and how they didn't want their kids hearing it, resulting in punches being thrown on a few occasions.
Highlight was a 4x4 driving onto a pitch on a council estate at an away game, trying to run the home keeper over due to unpaid drug debts.
Football does seem to bring out the proper dregs of society at all levels that no other sport I've come across does.
I have had a few run-ins with other managers over the years but nothing as bad as what you've mentioned.
We have an ongoing rivalry with another local team which has stemmed from their players being disgusting both verbally and physically.
Their assistant manager offered to take me in the carpark after the game because I'd asked what a free kick had been given for.
The league aren't interested, they just refer it to a Respect case and they get a slap on the wrist.
We have an ongoing rivalry with another local team which has stemmed from their players being disgusting both verbally and physically.
Their assistant manager offered to take me in the carpark after the game because I'd asked what a free kick had been given for.
The league aren't interested, they just refer it to a Respect case and they get a slap on the wrist.
I took my Nephew who is eleven to a game as his parents were away and I was honestly shocked at some of the parents behaviour.
Swearing at the kids and the ref. One Dad telling his kid to 'break his legs next tackle' another one telling a player that his son will be waiting in the car park for him.
This was when there was supposedly a silent touchline weekend.
Not what I was expecting.
Swearing at the kids and the ref. One Dad telling his kid to 'break his legs next tackle' another one telling a player that his son will be waiting in the car park for him.
This was when there was supposedly a silent touchline weekend.
Not what I was expecting.
Just chiming in on the thread as a dad of a lad in his second season of football, playing U8s.
So far so good, all very polite because the kids are all generally very nice and haven’t developed any nasty traits. Ditto the parents at this age mostly all very pleasant.
However all my mates have older boys right up to 18 who have dropped out at various points mainly due to the attitudes and behaviours of others parents. I’ve heard the “break his legs, son” tale far more times than I’d like to have. It’ll be interesting to see how things pan out.
So far so good, all very polite because the kids are all generally very nice and haven’t developed any nasty traits. Ditto the parents at this age mostly all very pleasant.
However all my mates have older boys right up to 18 who have dropped out at various points mainly due to the attitudes and behaviours of others parents. I’ve heard the “break his legs, son” tale far more times than I’d like to have. It’ll be interesting to see how things pan out.
It's quite simple: sanction tough penalties for the clubs. Deduct points; suspend players/managers. Local leagues fining them just hoover up cash and clubs will pay it. The problem goes on.
Also, for every directive they pass down to us; it all gets undone by the pros on telly.
Until they actually demonstrate zero tolerance, nothing will change.
My lads always get told how respectful they are (I'm an ex rugby player and have instilled some that conduct into the squad). Unfortunately, there still are ugly teams out there (always seem to be either from the same town, or, they conform to a stereotype).
Four seasons ago, the team being investigated kicked off against us when we went 3-0 up. The manager got sent off for mouthing off at the referee. As he was directed to the car park, one of his subs shouted, "Take their f
king ankles!". At the time they were 10.
They've always had the arse with us since that match but interestingly, we've now played them seven times and won all seven. Seven clean sheets too.
Also, for every directive they pass down to us; it all gets undone by the pros on telly.
Until they actually demonstrate zero tolerance, nothing will change.
My lads always get told how respectful they are (I'm an ex rugby player and have instilled some that conduct into the squad). Unfortunately, there still are ugly teams out there (always seem to be either from the same town, or, they conform to a stereotype).
Four seasons ago, the team being investigated kicked off against us when we went 3-0 up. The manager got sent off for mouthing off at the referee. As he was directed to the car park, one of his subs shouted, "Take their f
king ankles!". At the time they were 10. They've always had the arse with us since that match but interestingly, we've now played them seven times and won all seven. Seven clean sheets too.
My step sons been playing for his local team since he was 5.
An Essex league and he plays for the first team (they don’t call it that but it is which I think is relevant cos I have noticed better teams usually mean mouthier parents) but on the whole the behaviour has been brilliant from parents and kids. Home coach usually refs the games and there’s obviously a bias to their own team but even then no one says too much.
Certainly haven’t seen any nasty stuff (yet)
Although as his team will likely progress to the Echo league and it starts being more about the winning I expect it to get worse.
I’ve heard a few horrror stories from other dads with older kids in teams so maybe I’ve only witnessed people with some restraint given it’s U8’s.
An Essex league and he plays for the first team (they don’t call it that but it is which I think is relevant cos I have noticed better teams usually mean mouthier parents) but on the whole the behaviour has been brilliant from parents and kids. Home coach usually refs the games and there’s obviously a bias to their own team but even then no one says too much.
Certainly haven’t seen any nasty stuff (yet)
Although as his team will likely progress to the Echo league and it starts being more about the winning I expect it to get worse.
I’ve heard a few horrror stories from other dads with older kids in teams so maybe I’ve only witnessed people with some restraint given it’s U8’s.
We're fortunate, it seems, and don't have any of this at the moment - eldest is now U11s and has been playing for 4yrs. Youngest U8s and been playing for 2yrs. All parents nice people, kids nice (all sorts of backgrounds).
If it did start happening, I'm pretty sure everyone involved in my kids' clubs would put a stop to it, and in extremis we'd simply refuse to play the team(s) causing the issues.
If it did start happening, I'm pretty sure everyone involved in my kids' clubs would put a stop to it, and in extremis we'd simply refuse to play the team(s) causing the issues.
Glassman, you're right about the need for meaningful sanctions. A challenge though is the shortage of good refs, as they are the only "neutral" people at the match to report on such things. It would take money, but the FA could up the rewards for reffing and up the standard universally.
I have one in U9s, third season playing competitively in south london, and our experience is generally good. With parents I'd say it's universally good. The issues, in so far as we've had them, has come from "professional" coaches who aren't one of the parents, trying to "show who's boss".
I have one in U9s, third season playing competitively in south london, and our experience is generally good. With parents I'd say it's universally good. The issues, in so far as we've had them, has come from "professional" coaches who aren't one of the parents, trying to "show who's boss".
NW London here, regularly do the line. My son is 16 now and over the last 9 years we've encountered it all.
Typically certain clubs have a theme running through them, you see the behaviour at multiple age groups rather than just one.
Great if the FA gets involved - football can be a horrible experience.
Typically certain clubs have a theme running through them, you see the behaviour at multiple age groups rather than just one.
Great if the FA gets involved - football can be a horrible experience.
I recognise all of the behaviour described above. My son stopped playing at age 16 because he was sick of the aggression, not least from parents and opposing teams' coaches. That said, 95% of the bad stuff came from a couple of teams, both from, let's say, more modest parts of our locality. And as you've found, Glassman, the local FA do nothing meaningful about it in my experience.
Of course, you get the same when you play the game as an adult at parks level football. As a player, I've been punched, spat at and on, and had plenty of "see you in the car park afterwards" type threats. I gave up due to injury a while ago and I don't miss it at all.
I had to ref a game once having turned up to play (there was no official ref, someone had to do it and we were the home team), and gave a penalty against the opposition. Their player directed a volley of obscenities at me and I sent him off. He refused to go, tried to start a fight and topped it off with "I hope your effing kids die of cancer", which was nice. I had to go to the FA disciplinary committee in Southampton to confirm the details; they gave him the standard red card ban and told me off because I didn't have an actual red card on me. No wonder they find it hard to recruit referees.
Of course, you get the same when you play the game as an adult at parks level football. As a player, I've been punched, spat at and on, and had plenty of "see you in the car park afterwards" type threats. I gave up due to injury a while ago and I don't miss it at all.
I had to ref a game once having turned up to play (there was no official ref, someone had to do it and we were the home team), and gave a penalty against the opposition. Their player directed a volley of obscenities at me and I sent him off. He refused to go, tried to start a fight and topped it off with "I hope your effing kids die of cancer", which was nice. I had to go to the FA disciplinary committee in Southampton to confirm the details; they gave him the standard red card ban and told me off because I didn't have an actual red card on me. No wonder they find it hard to recruit referees.
It's awful to hear this. I remember my stepson playing when he was younger. The coach was a lad I played cricket with and used to sub his own players if he heard them swear on the pitch
It needs addressing at the highest level so that it flows down. The behaviour shown all over the telly for the kids and parents to see is a massive issue that leads to some of this
I've played rugby all my life. Both codes. Rugby League is probably closer to football in some respects, and I've seen some interesting stuff in the rougher parts of Castleford and the like (the team banned from the league due to their supporters shooting the opposition with air rifles springs to mind), but as a rule it's like chalk and cheese
I'm also a rugby ref. I would say in 95% of cases if somebody wants to speak to me, they do it in a calm and sensible manner and they call me Sir. In the other 5% they very quickly find out that my jovial character can easily change. I believe my personality is a big part of why I don't get much stick - I try and ref how I like to be reffed if that makes sense - but when it's youngsters learning the ropes who don't have the experience and social skills of a 47 year old prop/2nd row that's a tough gig
I always, always make a point of congratulating a young referee when they've had a good game, and thanking them even if it's not been so good. I wonder how many times anybody shows them appreciation for being out there on a cold winter morning!
Ref's rules - you know you've had a good game when both teams are complaining
It needs addressing at the highest level so that it flows down. The behaviour shown all over the telly for the kids and parents to see is a massive issue that leads to some of this
I've played rugby all my life. Both codes. Rugby League is probably closer to football in some respects, and I've seen some interesting stuff in the rougher parts of Castleford and the like (the team banned from the league due to their supporters shooting the opposition with air rifles springs to mind), but as a rule it's like chalk and cheese
I'm also a rugby ref. I would say in 95% of cases if somebody wants to speak to me, they do it in a calm and sensible manner and they call me Sir. In the other 5% they very quickly find out that my jovial character can easily change. I believe my personality is a big part of why I don't get much stick - I try and ref how I like to be reffed if that makes sense - but when it's youngsters learning the ropes who don't have the experience and social skills of a 47 year old prop/2nd row that's a tough gig
I always, always make a point of congratulating a young referee when they've had a good game, and thanking them even if it's not been so good. I wonder how many times anybody shows them appreciation for being out there on a cold winter morning!
Ref's rules - you know you've had a good game when both teams are complaining
Sadly, I think there is no winning in this situation. Until it starts to change on the premier league pitches, it'll never change at the grassroots level.
I played Rugby and Football growing up, but was always taught to respect the referee and to address him as sir if I were to speak with him.
Mainly due to the general thug mentality of the fans and the appalling language and behaviour of the players I stopped following football a long time ago.
My eldest, who is 12 lives with his mother and his stepdad who is by all accounts the type of fan I describe above. He is into his football and his son and my son both play for the same team.
Whenever I am in England I always try to get down to watch my boy play, and every time I cannot believe what I am witnessing. And nearly all of it stems from the parents and what the young kids see on TV.
Every time the ref blows his whistle, or there is a foul, these children surround him (like they do in the premier league) questioning his eyesight, swearing, name-calling, and the parents joining in from the sidelines just make it worse!
The worst I have seen is my son's stepdad's son being marginally fouled and launching a massive physical attack at the other player and then being sent off after shouting and swearing at the ref. Immediately my son's step-dad was on the pitch shouting and swearing telling his son "If I've f'ing told you once, I've f'ing told you a million times, if you're gonna swing f'ing punches, f'ing make sure they land on the c**t" and then the other teams dads chimed in and it went on for the rest of the game.
My son being around a man like this as a father figure is another matter altogether, but I've been absolutely shocked at what I have witnessed during these games. To be fair, the team are terrible, which probably compounds frustrations, but still, I believe it starts with the parents and what they watch on TV.
As a kid growing up, playing football or rugby, I wouldn't ever dream of speaking with the referee like that.
I played Rugby and Football growing up, but was always taught to respect the referee and to address him as sir if I were to speak with him.
Mainly due to the general thug mentality of the fans and the appalling language and behaviour of the players I stopped following football a long time ago.
My eldest, who is 12 lives with his mother and his stepdad who is by all accounts the type of fan I describe above. He is into his football and his son and my son both play for the same team.
Whenever I am in England I always try to get down to watch my boy play, and every time I cannot believe what I am witnessing. And nearly all of it stems from the parents and what the young kids see on TV.
Every time the ref blows his whistle, or there is a foul, these children surround him (like they do in the premier league) questioning his eyesight, swearing, name-calling, and the parents joining in from the sidelines just make it worse!
The worst I have seen is my son's stepdad's son being marginally fouled and launching a massive physical attack at the other player and then being sent off after shouting and swearing at the ref. Immediately my son's step-dad was on the pitch shouting and swearing telling his son "If I've f'ing told you once, I've f'ing told you a million times, if you're gonna swing f'ing punches, f'ing make sure they land on the c**t" and then the other teams dads chimed in and it went on for the rest of the game.
My son being around a man like this as a father figure is another matter altogether, but I've been absolutely shocked at what I have witnessed during these games. To be fair, the team are terrible, which probably compounds frustrations, but still, I believe it starts with the parents and what they watch on TV.
As a kid growing up, playing football or rugby, I wouldn't ever dream of speaking with the referee like that.
OFORBES said:
Sadly, I think there is no winning in this situation. Until it starts to change on the premier league pitches, it'll never change at the grassroots level.
I played Rugby and Football growing up, but was always taught to respect the referee and to address him as sir if I were to speak with him.
Mainly due to the general thug mentality of the fans and the appalling language and behaviour of the players I stopped following football a long time ago.
My eldest, who is 12 lives with his mother and his stepdad who is by all accounts the type of fan I describe above. He is into his football and his son and my son both play for the same team.
Whenever I am in England I always try to get down to watch my boy play, and every time I cannot believe what I am witnessing. And nearly all of it stems from the parents and what the young kids see on TV.
Every time the ref blows his whistle, or there is a foul, these children surround him (like they do in the premier league) questioning his eyesight, swearing, name-calling, and the parents joining in from the sidelines just make it worse!
The worst I have seen is my son's stepdad's son being marginally fouled and launching a massive physical attack at the other player and then being sent off after shouting and swearing at the ref. Immediately my son's step-dad was on the pitch shouting and swearing telling his son "If I've f'ing told you once, I've f'ing told you a million times, if you're gonna swing f'ing punches, f'ing make sure they land on the c**t" and then the other teams dads chimed in and it went on for the rest of the game.
My son being around a man like this as a father figure is another matter altogether, but I've been absolutely shocked at what I have witnessed during these games. To be fair, the team are terrible, which probably compounds frustrations, but still, I believe it starts with the parents and what they watch on TV.
As a kid growing up, playing football or rugby, I wouldn't ever dream of speaking with the referee like that.
Good grief. Sounds like quite the sI played Rugby and Football growing up, but was always taught to respect the referee and to address him as sir if I were to speak with him.
Mainly due to the general thug mentality of the fans and the appalling language and behaviour of the players I stopped following football a long time ago.
My eldest, who is 12 lives with his mother and his stepdad who is by all accounts the type of fan I describe above. He is into his football and his son and my son both play for the same team.
Whenever I am in England I always try to get down to watch my boy play, and every time I cannot believe what I am witnessing. And nearly all of it stems from the parents and what the young kids see on TV.
Every time the ref blows his whistle, or there is a foul, these children surround him (like they do in the premier league) questioning his eyesight, swearing, name-calling, and the parents joining in from the sidelines just make it worse!
The worst I have seen is my son's stepdad's son being marginally fouled and launching a massive physical attack at the other player and then being sent off after shouting and swearing at the ref. Immediately my son's step-dad was on the pitch shouting and swearing telling his son "If I've f'ing told you once, I've f'ing told you a million times, if you're gonna swing f'ing punches, f'ing make sure they land on the c**t" and then the other teams dads chimed in and it went on for the rest of the game.
My son being around a man like this as a father figure is another matter altogether, but I've been absolutely shocked at what I have witnessed during these games. To be fair, the team are terrible, which probably compounds frustrations, but still, I believe it starts with the parents and what they watch on TV.
As a kid growing up, playing football or rugby, I wouldn't ever dream of speaking with the referee like that.
tshow your son is involved in there. Hope he gets more positive experiences from you. And good on you for continuing to support him. Nothing like Dad watching. Gassing Station | Football | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff