Discussion
The managerial merry-go-round in football is something I can never understand. In most businesses, once you have failed in a senior position several times you usually need to take a step down, or change career. In football management it seems you simply step from one manager's job to another, usually collecting a significant payoff along the way. Bizarre.
RichB said:
The managerial merry-go-round in football is something I can never understand. In most businesses, once you have failed in a senior position several times you usually need to take a step down, or change career. In football management it seems you simply step from one manager's job to another, usually collecting a significant payoff along the way. Bizarre.
Wish I'd gone into it, paid a fortune for being s
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RichB said:
The managerial merry-go-round in football is something I can never understand. In most businesses, once you have failed in a senior position several times you usually need to take a step down, or change career. In football management it seems you simply step from one manager's job to another, usually collecting a significant payoff along the way. Bizarre.
But hasnt Hughes done that in this case? Not worked out at a top club and not worked since 2018. Wanted another crack at it and starting at the bottom and trying to work his way up. IKNAF but what I heard is managers... don't actually manage. They're more spokespeople, motivators, the public face, the example given was that Arsene never laid out any cones at Arsenal.
Look at Mourinho. Probably still the highest paid manager, clubs still want him, he brings attention, sponsorship, coverage. If the stars line up and he inherits a good team who are willing to play for him he will get some results as well.
Hughes has always been fairly visible on tv etc. so gets attention for the club.
Look at Mourinho. Probably still the highest paid manager, clubs still want him, he brings attention, sponsorship, coverage. If the stars line up and he inherits a good team who are willing to play for him he will get some results as well.
Hughes has always been fairly visible on tv etc. so gets attention for the club.
Hughes is a strange one.
By all accounts he does very little coaching,tells the coaches what he wants and leaves them to it.
Runs a very lax ship,not a disciplinarian at all.
Not much of a motivator either in terms of in the dressing room pre match.
So what does he have going for him? Well he's a big name and having played for Man U and Barcelona that helps to attract players.
He did a good job at Stoke for 3 years until he was given money to spend and then blew it on players with superstar attitudes but no heart.
I don't think he's cut out for lower league football
By all accounts he does very little coaching,tells the coaches what he wants and leaves them to it.
Runs a very lax ship,not a disciplinarian at all.
Not much of a motivator either in terms of in the dressing room pre match.
So what does he have going for him? Well he's a big name and having played for Man U and Barcelona that helps to attract players.
He did a good job at Stoke for 3 years until he was given money to spend and then blew it on players with superstar attitudes but no heart.
I don't think he's cut out for lower league football
Challo said:
RichB said:
The managerial merry-go-round in football is something I can never understand. In most businesses, once you have failed in a senior position several times you usually need to take a step down, or change career. In football management it seems you simply step from one manager's job to another, usually collecting a significant payoff along the way. Bizarre.
But hasnt Hughes done that in this case? Not worked out at a top club and not worked since 2018. Wanted another crack at it and starting at the bottom and trying to work his way up. RichB said:
The managerial merry-go-round in football is something I can never understand. In most businesses, once you have failed in a senior position several times you usually need to take a step down, or change career. In football management it seems you simply step from one manager's job to another, usually collecting a significant payoff along the way. Bizarre.
It is bizarre, especially given the money to be made if a club is successful. As others have said, at a Division 4 club the amount of football management and tactics must be limited by the ability of the players and he key is effective man management, which Hughes clearly isn't very good at. I've always wondered why clubs don't to a large local employer, Morrisons in Bradford's case, and poach one of their top people managers.RichB said:
The managerial merry-go-round in football is something I can never understand. In most businesses, once you have failed in a senior position several times you usually need to take a step down, or change career. In football management it seems you simply step from one manager's job to another, usually collecting a significant payoff along the way. Bizarre.
Dido Harding, Boris Johnson......failing upwards is not just for football managers.
Was a superb manager at Blackburn. Installed a huge sense of pride in the club.
The club went from being relegation fodder to qualifying for Europe and being tough to beat.
Didn't spend huge sums either, picked up some great players relatively cheaply that were then sold on for more money - Samba, Santa Cruz, Bentley, etc.
A lot of Blackburn fans would have him back tomorrow.
The club went from being relegation fodder to qualifying for Europe and being tough to beat.
Didn't spend huge sums either, picked up some great players relatively cheaply that were then sold on for more money - Samba, Santa Cruz, Bentley, etc.
A lot of Blackburn fans would have him back tomorrow.
No problem with that, except he then became manager of a club with limitless funds - and failed - and failed again and again. Someone who knew him said that he lacked man-management skills, and that seems to have been proven at Stoke. H started well but the rest was all downhill. Some managers seem able to manage clubs up to a certain level, Steve Bruce for example, and I class Hughes in this league.
RichB said:
The managerial merry-go-round in football is something I can never understand. In most businesses, once you have failed in a senior position several times you usually need to take a step down, or change career. In football management it seems you simply step from one manager's job to another, usually collecting a significant payoff along the way. Bizarre.
The problem, like any senior position, is a lack of talent available to do the job.If nobody employed a football manager who had been sacked, then there'd be very few football managers.
If your team isn't performing, you're unlikely to take a punt on someone without experience, therefore you need to draw from a pool of people who are available.
In addition, a change can be as good as anything. Some managers thrive in certain clubs, who play a certain way, with certain fans and certain players.
Hughes thrived at Blackburn, he didn't at City. He may do at Bradford.
Ranieri 'failed' at Chelsea and ended up at the Greek national team. He then won the PL with Leicester.
To compare it to the corporate world, if your company isn't doing well, you may choose to change the CEO. You will want someone with experience of being a CEO. You may not be able to afford the best CEO in the world.
There's a relatively limited amount of people with experience of being CEOs in Europe, so you choose someone who looks like they can fit in and steady your ship.
There's even less experienced football league managers than CEOs.
No problem with that, except he then became manager of a club with limitless funds - and failed - and failed again and again. Someone who knew him said that he lacked man-management skills, and that seems to have been proven at Stoke. H started well but the rest was all downhill. Some managers seem able to manage clubs up to a certain level, Steve Bruce for example, and I class Hughes in this league.
lowdrag said:
No problem with that, except he then became manager of a club with limitless funds - and failed - and failed again and again. Someone who knew him said that he lacked man-management skills, and that seems to have been proven at Stoke. H started well but the rest was all downhill. Some managers seem able to manage clubs up to a certain level, Steve Bruce for example, and I class Hughes in this league.
What are you on about?Stoke under Hughes finished 9th in the Premier League three years on the trot.
Stoke City. 9th. Premier League. Three times.
How well were you expecting him to do if that’s failure?
They’d love to be failing as badly as that at the moment.
But Hughes was sacked not because of the successful seasons but because he seemed to have lost the support of the players, and this was quite evident, as it was at Southampton. Troy Deeney remarked on MOTD just how different football is once you drop down from the Premier Division, and so it will be here. Maybe, like Steve Bruce, it seemed that at the end of the day he wasn't really up to Premier Division management and perhaps will do well in his new job. Bielsa did well at first at Leeds, Espirito Santo as well at Wolves but failed miserably at Spurs. Being a football manager does seem to be a conundrum, with only a few exceptions in the modern day such as Ferguson and Guardiola.Personally I think that all the different titles of Head Coach and so on have replaced the word Manager, and they aren't allowed to actually manage these days. One only has to look at the Everton set-up to see that there are too many fingers in the pie all pulling in different directions. However, we'll see how well he does in his new job, but they have lost four out of five since he was appointed.
lowdrag said:
But Hughes was sacked not because of the successful seasons but because he seemed to have lost the support of the players, and this was quite evident, as it was at Southampton. Troy Deeney remarked on MOTD just how different football is once you drop down from the Premier Division, and so it will be here. Maybe, like Steve Bruce, it seemed that at the end of the day he wasn't really up to Premier Division management and perhaps will do well in his new job. Bielsa did well at first at Leeds, Espirito Santo as well at Wolves but failed miserably at Spurs. Being a football manager does seem to be a conundrum, with only a few exceptions in the modern day such as Ferguson and Guardiola.Personally I think that all the different titles of Head Coach and so on have replaced the word Manager, and they aren't allowed to actually manage these days. One only has to look at the Everton set-up to see that there are too many fingers in the pie all pulling in different directions. However, we'll see how well he does in his new job, but they have lost four out of five since he was appointed.
The more clubs you manage the more likely you are to fail.Fergie came perilously close to failure at Man U before turning it around.
Ranieri has managed 22 clubs ! 22 !
As for Hughes he did a good job at Stoke until he was given money to spend,he somehow managed to repeatedly spend huge sums,for a club like Stoke,on absolute rubbish which ultimately led to where we are now.....the owners are culpable also for giving him freehand.
I doubt he'll have 2 bob to spend at Bradford so will have to use his experience, nous and his standing in the game to motivate and get cheap/free signings, assuming he lasts beyond this season
To be fair, Hughes was at Man City (just) before the big, big money arrived and signed (among others) Gareth Barry and Vincent Kompany pre megabucks.
Once the Abu Dhabi Investment Group arrived (IIRC) they were looking for a bigger name manager, simple as that. There was a lot of sentiment in football, and particularly with the City fans, that Hughes should be given a chance, so they held fire for a while.
BUT, again, if my memory serves, Hughes and City went in pursuit of some very big name players and never quite managed to get them, always having to make do with their second choices - still very good players obvs.
I think they were missing out because the name of Hughes as coach/manager/whatever, didn't have the same pull as Ferguson or Mourinho or, as it turned out, Mancini.
He definitely did a good job at Stoke taking over a typical Pulis team that was well-organised and defensive (a.k.a. dull) and added some attacking flair and adventure which helped them to win more games and finish higher up the league. Perhaps it all fell apart when Stoke lost too many of the defensive types that Pulis left behind, though signing Saido Berahino can't have helped!
It's the nature of the job that most football managers get fired most of the time - a bit like batsmen in cricket mostly fail by getting out (even if they have scored 200+ runs) - it's more serious for a manager when their reputation gets damaged, as appears to be the case for Hughes following Stoke & Southampton. It will be interesting to see what happens with Bradford.
Once the Abu Dhabi Investment Group arrived (IIRC) they were looking for a bigger name manager, simple as that. There was a lot of sentiment in football, and particularly with the City fans, that Hughes should be given a chance, so they held fire for a while.
BUT, again, if my memory serves, Hughes and City went in pursuit of some very big name players and never quite managed to get them, always having to make do with their second choices - still very good players obvs.
I think they were missing out because the name of Hughes as coach/manager/whatever, didn't have the same pull as Ferguson or Mourinho or, as it turned out, Mancini.
He definitely did a good job at Stoke taking over a typical Pulis team that was well-organised and defensive (a.k.a. dull) and added some attacking flair and adventure which helped them to win more games and finish higher up the league. Perhaps it all fell apart when Stoke lost too many of the defensive types that Pulis left behind, though signing Saido Berahino can't have helped!
It's the nature of the job that most football managers get fired most of the time - a bit like batsmen in cricket mostly fail by getting out (even if they have scored 200+ runs) - it's more serious for a manager when their reputation gets damaged, as appears to be the case for Hughes following Stoke & Southampton. It will be interesting to see what happens with Bradford.
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