Lionel Messi - Is he all that?
Discussion
Numerous personal and team achievements suggest he is, although he may be declining now.
I've not really paid interest in how he is doing since his move to PSG and he did miss a penalty yesterday but that can happen to anyone no matter how good you are.
Peak Messi would have performed in the PL but at this moment in time I think he wouldn't perform as effectively if he was here now.
If he was at a Man City/Liverpool he probably would still look pretty amazing, at a Man U or Chelsea not so much.
I've not really paid interest in how he is doing since his move to PSG and he did miss a penalty yesterday but that can happen to anyone no matter how good you are.
Peak Messi would have performed in the PL but at this moment in time I think he wouldn't perform as effectively if he was here now.
If he was at a Man City/Liverpool he probably would still look pretty amazing, at a Man U or Chelsea not so much.
Along with Ronaldo one of the greatest footballers to ever lived. Amazing personal record in terms of his goals, assists, honours won.
I know im biased as a United fan, but always preferred Ronaldo as the better player. Mainly due to the fact Ronaldo achieved greatness in different teams in different leagues, and even at 36 wanted to come back to the prem.
Messi stayed at Barca, was happy to never leave. He only moved to PSG because Barca ran out of money, and PSG where the only team to meet his wages demands.
I know im biased as a United fan, but always preferred Ronaldo as the better player. Mainly due to the fact Ronaldo achieved greatness in different teams in different leagues, and even at 36 wanted to come back to the prem.
Messi stayed at Barca, was happy to never leave. He only moved to PSG because Barca ran out of money, and PSG where the only team to meet his wages demands.
Was he all that? Yes. He has been the best player ever over the past 10 years.
Is he the best in the world currently? No.
He’s moved to PSG and has probably lost a bit of pace in the past couple of seasons.
Previously he would be able to dribble past a whole team and then stick the ball in the net but mostly nowadays you will see him in a playmaking role, with players more advanced than him.
People will be questioning him after watching him play Real last night. Real Madrid of all teams. Who had gone to the park des princes and sat back a lot of the game.
It’s wrong to expect the Messi from 2011/2012 10 years later and it’s wrong to disrespect Messi and Ronaldo for the performances they put in now purely because of their past. See that quite a lot on social media but then again, that’s social media.
Is he the best in the world currently? No.
He’s moved to PSG and has probably lost a bit of pace in the past couple of seasons.
Previously he would be able to dribble past a whole team and then stick the ball in the net but mostly nowadays you will see him in a playmaking role, with players more advanced than him.
People will be questioning him after watching him play Real last night. Real Madrid of all teams. Who had gone to the park des princes and sat back a lot of the game.
It’s wrong to expect the Messi from 2011/2012 10 years later and it’s wrong to disrespect Messi and Ronaldo for the performances they put in now purely because of their past. See that quite a lot on social media but then again, that’s social media.
Absolutely he is all that. If it was that easy scoring at the rate he did, we would see similar stats from players littering the archives. We don't its very very rare. And some of the goals he scored were pretty incredible. The thing missing for me is him challenging himself in other leagues, you could argue Serie A is more competitive, Bundesliga about on par, Premier League has a higher quality - we never saw him up against better opposition week in week out.
Cristiano Ronaldo at the same time was scoring more freely in arguably a more inferior team ie Portugal vs Argentina, and I would say Ronaldos all round game was not so dependant on a strong team around him like Messi.
All that said, there has been so many incredible players even in recent history say the last 30-40 years. Original Ronaldo was an absolute machine, Ronaldinho was more skillfull. Baggio at his best was unplayable. Even our own beloved Gary Lineker was one of the most lethal strikers along with Shearer in the world. Going back you could look at Jimmy Greaves, stunning player, and George Best. Problem is most people compiling best strikers arent old enough to even understand how good players were back then so invariably you end up with people pointing at the goals stat and saying C Ronaldo.
Cristiano Ronaldo at the same time was scoring more freely in arguably a more inferior team ie Portugal vs Argentina, and I would say Ronaldos all round game was not so dependant on a strong team around him like Messi.
All that said, there has been so many incredible players even in recent history say the last 30-40 years. Original Ronaldo was an absolute machine, Ronaldinho was more skillfull. Baggio at his best was unplayable. Even our own beloved Gary Lineker was one of the most lethal strikers along with Shearer in the world. Going back you could look at Jimmy Greaves, stunning player, and George Best. Problem is most people compiling best strikers arent old enough to even understand how good players were back then so invariably you end up with people pointing at the goals stat and saying C Ronaldo.
coldel said:
Absolutely he is all that. If it was that easy scoring at the rate he did, we would see similar stats from players littering the archives. We don't its very very rare. And some of the goals he scored were pretty incredible. The thing missing for me is him challenging himself in other leagues, you could argue Serie A is more competitive, Bundesliga about on par, Premier League has a higher quality - we never saw him up against better opposition week in week out.
Cristiano Ronaldo at the same time was scoring more freely in arguably a more inferior team ie Portugal vs Argentina, and I would say Ronaldos all round game was not so dependant on a strong team around him like Messi.
All that said, there has been so many incredible players even in recent history say the last 30-40 years. Original Ronaldo was an absolute machine, Ronaldinho was more skillfull. Baggio at his best was unplayable. Even our own beloved Gary Lineker was one of the most lethal strikers along with Shearer in the world. Going back you could look at Jimmy Greaves, stunning player, and George Best. Problem is most people compiling best strikers arent old enough to even understand how good players were back then so invariably you end up with people pointing at the goals stat and saying C Ronaldo.
Good post. La Liga is a second rate league yes. Thru Messi's time there it has had two of the best, probably the two best, club sides in the world, and then a couple of other decent teams, and tons of dross. Lots of PL players would look very good there. Still, I'd agree Messi was one of the best two players of the past 15 years. Cristiano Ronaldo at the same time was scoring more freely in arguably a more inferior team ie Portugal vs Argentina, and I would say Ronaldos all round game was not so dependant on a strong team around him like Messi.
All that said, there has been so many incredible players even in recent history say the last 30-40 years. Original Ronaldo was an absolute machine, Ronaldinho was more skillfull. Baggio at his best was unplayable. Even our own beloved Gary Lineker was one of the most lethal strikers along with Shearer in the world. Going back you could look at Jimmy Greaves, stunning player, and George Best. Problem is most people compiling best strikers arent old enough to even understand how good players were back then so invariably you end up with people pointing at the goals stat and saying C Ronaldo.
Ntv said:
Good post. La Liga is a second rate league yes. Thru Messi's time there it has had two of the best, probably the two best, club sides in the world, and then a couple of other decent teams, and tons of dross. Lots of PL players would look very good there. Still, I'd agree Messi was one of the best two players of the past 15 years.
I would say yes, one of the top two attackers of the last 15 years. What was a bonus was having Ronaldo around too - they seemed to drive each other competitively. Right now though I think I would have any of Levandowski Haaland Salah in my team in front of Messi. He certainly isn't the force he once was and his salary is not reflective of what he brings to the PSG team, he is underwhelming. Think he and Ronaldo are very special players and should be regarded the way pele and maradonna are.
Very lucky to have both in there prime pushing each other at the same time.
While I think messi is the more gifted player I always thought he stayed in his comfort zone and had arguably the best ever team behind him with xavi, ineista and busquets letting him do his thing.
Ronaldo went to England,Spain,Italy and singly handedly won Portugal the euros. The way he has looked after himself has been incredible and contributed to his longevity.
Very lucky to have both in there prime pushing each other at the same time.
While I think messi is the more gifted player I always thought he stayed in his comfort zone and had arguably the best ever team behind him with xavi, ineista and busquets letting him do his thing.
Ronaldo went to England,Spain,Italy and singly handedly won Portugal the euros. The way he has looked after himself has been incredible and contributed to his longevity.
dalzo said:
Think he and Ronaldo are very special players and should be regarded the way pele and maradonna are.
Very lucky to have both in there prime pushing each other at the same time.
While I think messi is the more gifted player I always thought he stayed in his comfort zone and had arguably the best ever team behind him with xavi, ineista and busquets letting him do his thing.
Ronaldo went to England,Spain,Italy and singly handedly won Portugal the euros. The way he has looked after himself has been incredible and contributed to his longevity.
This. I'm firmly in the Ronaldo camp. His commitment and drive, his dedication to himself is far more than Messi.Very lucky to have both in there prime pushing each other at the same time.
While I think messi is the more gifted player I always thought he stayed in his comfort zone and had arguably the best ever team behind him with xavi, ineista and busquets letting him do his thing.
Ronaldo went to England,Spain,Italy and singly handedly won Portugal the euros. The way he has looked after himself has been incredible and contributed to his longevity.
Could you imagine Rooney with Ronaldo drive.
We should though refer to them as the greatest attackers of all time. There have been players in other positions that emulated Messi but don't have 'excitement factor' to prove it. Franco Baresi was literally unbeatable as a defender for 20 years, possibly one of the greatest ever, for example. His longevity was incredible when you think how short a central defenders career is. I do wonder just how many goals Bobby Charlton would have got if he didn't have to kick a ball that weighed 10kgs also!
An attacker has the goal stat, and is associated with flair. A defender is about attrition and solidity. Unfortunately when naming a 'great player' the football community just leans on the exciting stats and ignores the boring ones.
An attacker has the goal stat, and is associated with flair. A defender is about attrition and solidity. Unfortunately when naming a 'great player' the football community just leans on the exciting stats and ignores the boring ones.
He's 34 now, so the question of "is he all that" is tempered by age.
However, "was he all that?" The answer is unequivocally yes.
Just look at his stats.
In the 2011-2012 season, he scored 73 goals.
This included 50 goals in 37 league appearances - more than 1 goal per game on average.
Between 2009 and 2021, he never scored less than 25 league goals per season.
However, "was he all that?" The answer is unequivocally yes.
Just look at his stats.
In the 2011-2012 season, he scored 73 goals.
This included 50 goals in 37 league appearances - more than 1 goal per game on average.
Between 2009 and 2021, he never scored less than 25 league goals per season.
He is definitely one of the greatest goal scorers, that quite easy to measure. Although he did it in a team that was supreme in the league at the time and he played alongside some outstanding attacking talent. Since he went to a misfiring PSG despite scoring for fun at Barca a month later he is struggling in France in a different team. Make of that what you will.
Is he all that NOW? Open to debate, as I mentioned above, plenty of other attackers I would rather have in my dream team ahead of Messi now.
Is he all that NOW? Open to debate, as I mentioned above, plenty of other attackers I would rather have in my dream team ahead of Messi now.
dalzo said:
Ronaldo went to England,Spain,Italy and singly handedly won Portugal the euros.
They drew every game in 90 minutes IIRC correctly and was taken off injured in the first half of the final too wasn't he ? Not sure that's winning the Euros single handed.
Same could be said of Messi in the Copa last year. Finished top scorer and assists.
Brummiebeau said:
They drew every game in 90 minutes IIRC correctly and was taken off injured in the first half of the final too wasn't he ?
Not sure that's winning the Euros single handed.
Same could be said of Messi in the Copa last year. Finished top scorer and assists.
They won three games, drew four. Ronaldo wasn't the guy scoring all the goals. Proved hard to beat I guess. France couldn't score against them over two hours of football. But yes Ronaldo definitely less of an influence in that tourno. The fact though he has scored 115 goals vs 80 of Messi, and that you could argue Argentina are literally one of the top two teams in their region vs Portugal having a tougher region in Europe you could argue Ronaldo is outscoring Messi by some margin for the national team, moreso than just counting the goals. Not sure that's winning the Euros single handed.
Same could be said of Messi in the Copa last year. Finished top scorer and assists.
Ntv said:
Good post. La Liga is a second rate league yes. Thru Messi's time there it has had two of the best, probably the two best, club sides in the world, and then a couple of other decent teams, and tons of dross. Lots of PL players would look very good there. Still, I'd agree Messi was one of the best two players of the past 15 years.
Henry didn’t do very well there did he ? Considering he tore up the premier league .Spanish football from say 2006-2017 was the best in the world ,the best teams in Europe ,the best national team .
There is no league currently near that level ,British teams are doing well because of how poor the quality is elsewhere .
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