Referees and a Lack of Respect in Football
Discussion
How long would it take to implement some stricter rules for dissent?
Aside from the blatant cheating and conning the officials, it's the constant questioning the referee's decision that is winding me up in every game. Woe betide should the referee give a decision that a team or group of players does not agree with. I'm not great at lip reading but it's clear what players say to the referee after he responds to being questioned about a decision. It's like watching unruly kids pushing the boundaries with mum while dad's at work.
I'd also like see how injuries are dealt with. Gone down injured? Either carry on around him, or better still, a mandatory two-minutes off the pitch allowed back on only once the fourth official is convinced major surgery isn't needed.
Maybe look at retrospective punishments through clubs and managers for not controlling their players?
It might mean a touch more to me because I manage a grassroots football team. We are given strict guidelines which filter down from the FA. What's the point in implementing those rules when they're not being observed at elite level?
Aside from the blatant cheating and conning the officials, it's the constant questioning the referee's decision that is winding me up in every game. Woe betide should the referee give a decision that a team or group of players does not agree with. I'm not great at lip reading but it's clear what players say to the referee after he responds to being questioned about a decision. It's like watching unruly kids pushing the boundaries with mum while dad's at work.
I'd also like see how injuries are dealt with. Gone down injured? Either carry on around him, or better still, a mandatory two-minutes off the pitch allowed back on only once the fourth official is convinced major surgery isn't needed.
Maybe look at retrospective punishments through clubs and managers for not controlling their players?
It might mean a touch more to me because I manage a grassroots football team. We are given strict guidelines which filter down from the FA. What's the point in implementing those rules when they're not being observed at elite level?
I don't like comparing to rugby (they are different and I am a fan of both) but the level of respect is completely different.
I think realistically the refs need to be wear microphones so we can all hear what they have to say, might make the players think twice about how they behave knowing the whole world is listening.
Also at grass routes the behavior change needs to start including how parent behave at kids matches, it will take at least a generation or so.
I think realistically the refs need to be wear microphones so we can all hear what they have to say, might make the players think twice about how they behave knowing the whole world is listening.
Also at grass routes the behavior change needs to start including how parent behave at kids matches, it will take at least a generation or so.
They just need t implement the existing dissent law. A couple of weeks of matches ending as seven a side and the message would sink in.
While they are at it, strictly penalise shirt-pulling, mandatory yellow card. You can't accidentally grab someone's shirt si it's deliberate foul play. Same for all the wrestling that occurs at dead ball situations.
There was a great exchange last week in the rugby Heineken Cup when a player questioned the French ref Romain Pooite,
"You are captain?"
"no"
"Go away"
While they are at it, strictly penalise shirt-pulling, mandatory yellow card. You can't accidentally grab someone's shirt si it's deliberate foul play. Same for all the wrestling that occurs at dead ball situations.
There was a great exchange last week in the rugby Heineken Cup when a player questioned the French ref Romain Pooite,
"You are captain?"
"no"
"Go away"
Type R Tom said:
Also at grass routes the behavior change needs to start including how parent behave at kids matches, it will take at least a generation or so.
It's rare to play a team where there is no bad behaviour. This could be shouting from the behind the respect line, or 'volunteer' linesmen inciting a reaction by constantly favoring decisions for their own teams. A few weeks back we had three legitimate goals flagged as offside. You can't say anything in any tone of voice because the moment you do, it all descends into a pathetic cacophony of moany/shouty parents defending his decision. DocJock said:
They just need t implement the existing dissent law. A couple of weeks of matches ending as seven a side and the message would sink in.
While they are at it, strictly penalise shirt-pulling, mandatory yellow card. You can't accidentally grab someone's shirt si it's deliberate foul play. Same for all the wrestling that occurs at dead ball situations.
There was a great exchange last week in the rugby Heineken Cup when a player questioned the French ref Romain Pooite,
"You are captain?"
"no"
"Go away"
This. But it needs to come from the top down. Refs won't act unless they know the national/local FA have their back. I walk past our local grassroots pitch regularly - it's used by all sorts from primary school age teams up to NL level senior team. The behaviour of the teenage teams - like U14 - U18 is awful - just constant abuse and backchat directed at the ref non stop. And the refs never do anything, like it's just part of the game. No wonder no-one wants to be a ref.While they are at it, strictly penalise shirt-pulling, mandatory yellow card. You can't accidentally grab someone's shirt si it's deliberate foul play. Same for all the wrestling that occurs at dead ball situations.
There was a great exchange last week in the rugby Heineken Cup when a player questioned the French ref Romain Pooite,
"You are captain?"
"no"
"Go away"
FA needs to tell the refs to send off anyone who swears at them / argues with a decision and back them up. Tell both teams before kickoff that's what is going to happen. After a week or two of every game being abandoned by half time the problem would be fixed. But it won't happen because the FA are big on meaningless soundbites like respect campaigns and other b
ks but ultimately they couldn't care less.Glassman said:
It's rare to play a team where there is no bad behaviour. This could be shouting from the behind the respect line, or 'volunteer' linesmen inciting a reaction by constantly favoring decisions for their own teams. A few weeks back we had three legitimate goals flagged as offside. You can't say anything in any tone of voice because the moment you do, it all descends into a pathetic cacophony of moany/shouty parents defending his decision.
I want to buy one of these for my lads grassroots teams.https://www.veo.co/football-camera/
Not for use on the day, I’m firmly against VAR, just so you can show them afterwards that they played it right and to stick at it.
Although this might encourage arguing with the officials next time I suppose when the players see just how wrong the decisions can be?
I've long been baffled as to why referees and the governing body of referees accept officials being intimidated and cajoled by players.
I can't see what the sport would lose by implementing the same standards of referee respect that Rugby has.
It needs to come from the top down, with sanctions for those not towing the line.
I can't see what the sport would lose by implementing the same standards of referee respect that Rugby has.
It needs to come from the top down, with sanctions for those not towing the line.
I very rarely watch football nowadays and when I do find myself constantly berating the conduct of the players
I do play rugby, and also referee it. I very rarely get any dissent but hen I do it tends to come from younger players who have grown up watching the conduct of others on the TV
I remember going to the Super league Grand Final a few years ago and you could get an earpiece which allowed you to listen into the referee. Keiron Cunningham swore in the vicinity of the ref - not direct dissent but just frustration at a decision
KC - "Oh FFS"
Ref - "Keiron, I heard that and don't forget I'm mic'ed up and everybody else will have heard it too"
KC - "Ok Sir, Sorry Sir"
If a rough-a**ed rugby league player from St Helens can do it, there's no reason it can't be implemented. Maybe leave yellow cards as they are but bring in a green with a 5 minute sin bin for dissent
I do play rugby, and also referee it. I very rarely get any dissent but hen I do it tends to come from younger players who have grown up watching the conduct of others on the TV
I remember going to the Super league Grand Final a few years ago and you could get an earpiece which allowed you to listen into the referee. Keiron Cunningham swore in the vicinity of the ref - not direct dissent but just frustration at a decision
KC - "Oh FFS"
Ref - "Keiron, I heard that and don't forget I'm mic'ed up and everybody else will have heard it too"
KC - "Ok Sir, Sorry Sir"
If a rough-a**ed rugby league player from St Helens can do it, there's no reason it can't be implemented. Maybe leave yellow cards as they are but bring in a green with a 5 minute sin bin for dissent
Muzzer79 said:
I've long been baffled as to why referees and the governing body of referees accept officials being intimidated and cajoled by players.
I can't see what the sport would lose by implementing the same standards of referee respect that Rugby has.
It needs to come from the top down, with sanctions for those not towing the line.
It does seem quite simple. I can't see what the sport would lose by implementing the same standards of referee respect that Rugby has.
It needs to come from the top down, with sanctions for those not towing the line.
Create basic rules - enforce them.
No backchat, no swearing, no hassling the ref. Yellows and reds for people infringing…
I think there’s some merit for a sin bin system as well.
The only player from each team that can speak to the ref is the captain. And then they must be polite - “yes sir” etc.
They could have it implemented by the weekend if they wanted to have respect built in but they clearly don’t as this discussion has been going on for as long as I can remember….
Many many years ago I used to coach an u11 team, one match the ref never turned up so with the approval of both managers I reffed the game, before I stepped onto the pitch I got the teams and their managers together and reminded them about having some respect for the game and each other. Kicked off and very soon the team I coached were into a 4 nil lead, the 5th went in just before HT this goal was followed by most of my coached team doing stupid celebrations walking on their knees flapping their arms like ducks and making noises. I called the mgr and captain over and told them both it was stupid and disrespectful and it had to stop or I would call the game off, the opposition were almost in tears and the parents getting very angry. 2nd half it settled down a little however when the 6th goal went in and the stupid celebrations started as before, I blew the whistle and called the game off. The reaction was as if I'd set fire to everyone's car! I got threats from the parents of the team I coached some of the parents had been to my house for socials etc. Followed back to my car with same threats being shouted, bear in mind I had coached this team for 3 years! Manager phoned me later to state he never wanted me to coach his team again. Clincher to this was the game was a pre season friendly my team had finished top the previous season, their opponents had joined the same league for the 1st time as a club. Complete and utter disrespect for the rules and the spirit of the game, as others have posted grass roots football despite all the soundbites about spirit of the game has hardly changed, elite football definitely hasn't.
Glassman said:
Pieman68 said:
bring in a green with a 5 minute sin bin for dissent
The FA introduced the sin bin last season. Haven't seen one, nor have I heard a call for anyone to be sin binned. Perhaps doing it from the top might educate those coming up through the ranks.
But could do with something similar for parents!
c6r said:
DocJock said:
They just need t implement the existing dissent law. A couple of weeks of matches ending as seven a side and the message would sink in.
While they are at it, strictly penalise shirt-pulling, mandatory yellow card. You can't accidentally grab someone's shirt si it's deliberate foul play. Same for all the wrestling that occurs at dead ball situations.
There was a great exchange last week in the rugby Heineken Cup when a player questioned the French ref Romain Pooite,
"You are captain?"
"no"
"Go away"
This. But it needs to come from the top down. Refs won't act unless they know the national/local FA have their back. I walk past our local grassroots pitch regularly - it's used by all sorts from primary school age teams up to NL level senior team. The behaviour of the teenage teams - like U14 - U18 is awful - just constant abuse and backchat directed at the ref non stop. And the refs never do anything, like it's just part of the game. No wonder no-one wants to be a ref.While they are at it, strictly penalise shirt-pulling, mandatory yellow card. You can't accidentally grab someone's shirt si it's deliberate foul play. Same for all the wrestling that occurs at dead ball situations.
There was a great exchange last week in the rugby Heineken Cup when a player questioned the French ref Romain Pooite,
"You are captain?"
"no"
"Go away"
FA needs to tell the refs to send off anyone who swears at them / argues with a decision and back them up. Tell both teams before kickoff that's what is going to happen. After a week or two of every game being abandoned by half time the problem would be fixed. But it won't happen because the FA are big on meaningless soundbites like respect campaigns and other b
ks but ultimately they couldn't care less.The rugby analogy is an excellent one, but its the same through all the age groups. The captain can talk to the ref, no chat back and the ref's decision is final. Until they do the same in football you will always get abuse back to the ref's.
Edited by Challo on Tuesday 18th January 10:50
I can't any improvement happening. Don't get me wrong, I'm not part of the "anti-football" brigade, I enjoy watching it, but when it comes to respect in football the atmosphere is pretty toxic from all sides. Why anyone would choose to become a ref is beyond me.
It's not just the players on the pitch. How often do we hear managers undermining the ref, blaming them for their team losing. One week they might rant about a penalty being given against them for a 50-50 decision, but conveniently forget that last week they should have had a player sent off in the first 10 minutes for a reckless challenge, which when asked about they'd swear blind was not a foul.
And then (with the benefit of 200 ultra-HD-super-slo-mo-hi-def-multi-angle TV camera's) the pundits will weigh in and analyse every minor decision as it if were life or death.
It's not just the players on the pitch. How often do we hear managers undermining the ref, blaming them for their team losing. One week they might rant about a penalty being given against them for a 50-50 decision, but conveniently forget that last week they should have had a player sent off in the first 10 minutes for a reckless challenge, which when asked about they'd swear blind was not a foul.
And then (with the benefit of 200 ultra-HD-super-slo-mo-hi-def-multi-angle TV camera's) the pundits will weigh in and analyse every minor decision as it if were life or death.
It entirely depends on the referee in my own experience, I’ve had refs come in changing rooms before games and explain what he expected from the players and they games were always refereed great with little trouble. You basicly had your first warning in the changing room and they took no crap out on the field.
Then you get other referees we’re players could smell weakness and would give them bother all game.I’ve also seen referee’s being physically assaulted.
Imo the ref has to have the ego/balls to front up the clowns trying to abuse them
It also helps with the coaching too, the more professional set-ups I played for taught you to respect the refs and try and get them onside so that in the event of a 50/50 they would look more favourably.
Then you get other referees we’re players could smell weakness and would give them bother all game.I’ve also seen referee’s being physically assaulted.
Imo the ref has to have the ego/balls to front up the clowns trying to abuse them
It also helps with the coaching too, the more professional set-ups I played for taught you to respect the refs and try and get them onside so that in the event of a 50/50 they would look more favourably.
Football needs to bring in the "yellow means 10 minutes off the pitch" penalty that rugby has. A yellow card in football basically means nothing but a red can really mess the game up & there's nothing in between. Ping them off the pitch for 10 minutes for dissent & they'll soon stop it.
Zetec-S said:
the pundits will weigh in and analyse every minor decision as it if were life or death.
This is also part of the problemIf you clamp down, the myriad of pundits will then start dissecting each decision
i.e
"He only questioned the referee's decision....he's a young lad....he needs to learn.....did that justify a yellow?......that decision meant they lost the game..."
etc, etc
Type R Tom said:
I think realistically the refs need to be wear microphones so we can all hear what they have to say, might make the players think twice about how they behave knowing the whole world is listening.
Yep, just mic up the refs. Will stamp it out pretty quickly. They also need to mic up the fourth official to stamp out the dissent from the managers.In 1989, David Elleray was mic'd up as an experiment for Arsenal vs Millwall. They forgot to tell the Arsenal players that he was mic'd up. TV gold, for all the wrong reasons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4ruNosLNOE
This season Australian referee Jarred Gillett has been promoted to the Premier League after two seasons lower down. Back in Australia he was mic'd up for his final A-league game and it's really interesting to hear all the talk that goes on between the officials.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR9wwqjbO1I&t=...
Mr Pointy said:
Football needs to bring in the "yellow means 10 minutes off the pitch" penalty that rugby has. A yellow card in football basically means nothing but a red can really mess the game up & there's nothing in between. Ping them off the pitch for 10 minutes for dissent & they'll soon stop it.
100% this! fk me, it is so easy to implement. As said, a yellow is effectively meaningless and players will take one if it means stopping a potential goal scoring move.I seem to be in a minority here, I'm assistant coach to an U11 side and with only two exceptions in three seasons we've had nothing but respect shown.
Exception 1.
Opposition parents calling for their team to deliberately foul our team, ref should have red carded at least one, but I've never even seen a Yellow at U11 level, they'll come up against a team bigger and harder than them eventually.
Exception 2.
We provided a ref who was going through his courses, I think it was his second game, a friendly. A couple of the opposition kept swearing at him, but fair play the oppo manager clamped down on it pretty well and it did stop.
I'd not be sticking around as coach if our matches were like some I've heard of on here and the YEL groups. Opposition managers and apart from the above, opposition parents have all been great.
Anybody with a U11 in Nottingham that needs a team let me know :-)
Exception 1.
Opposition parents calling for their team to deliberately foul our team, ref should have red carded at least one, but I've never even seen a Yellow at U11 level, they'll come up against a team bigger and harder than them eventually.
Exception 2.
We provided a ref who was going through his courses, I think it was his second game, a friendly. A couple of the opposition kept swearing at him, but fair play the oppo manager clamped down on it pretty well and it did stop.
I'd not be sticking around as coach if our matches were like some I've heard of on here and the YEL groups. Opposition managers and apart from the above, opposition parents have all been great.
Anybody with a U11 in Nottingham that needs a team let me know :-)
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