Greatest of all time.
Discussion
A subjective topic but one that always prompts great debate. No right or wrong answer but interesting to see what everyone’s is. I will put my top 5.
1. Zizou - The complete footballer. The balance and grace he displayed was breathtaking. Did it at the highest level in WC finals and CL finals. The paneka penalty was outrageous and breathtaking along with one of the greatest CL final goals of all time. When he got sent off in his final WC game I felt like crying. It was the most disappointed I have ever felt.
2. Ronaldo (R9) - Unplayable pre-knee injury and not far off that afterwards. His acceleration and speed was a think of beauty. I get goosebumps watching him. The clip where he elastico’s round Nesta I could watch all day.
3. Messi - Falls short of being my GOAT due to no WC win but I’m nit picking. He’s insane to watch and one of a kind. Breathtaking player.
4. Ronaldo (R7) - On a par with Messi. Never understood the hate he gets. A model professional, a machine who strives to be better every year. Scored goals few others can.
5. Ronaldinho - Did things no one else could ever do. The flair and freedom he played with was unmatched in my opinion. Watch a collection of his no look assists as an example of his genius.
1. Zizou - The complete footballer. The balance and grace he displayed was breathtaking. Did it at the highest level in WC finals and CL finals. The paneka penalty was outrageous and breathtaking along with one of the greatest CL final goals of all time. When he got sent off in his final WC game I felt like crying. It was the most disappointed I have ever felt.
2. Ronaldo (R9) - Unplayable pre-knee injury and not far off that afterwards. His acceleration and speed was a think of beauty. I get goosebumps watching him. The clip where he elastico’s round Nesta I could watch all day.
3. Messi - Falls short of being my GOAT due to no WC win but I’m nit picking. He’s insane to watch and one of a kind. Breathtaking player.
4. Ronaldo (R7) - On a par with Messi. Never understood the hate he gets. A model professional, a machine who strives to be better every year. Scored goals few others can.
5. Ronaldinho - Did things no one else could ever do. The flair and freedom he played with was unmatched in my opinion. Watch a collection of his no look assists as an example of his genius.
Ruskie said:
A subjective topic but one that always prompts great debate. No right or wrong answer but interesting to see what everyone’s is. I will put my top 5.
1. Zizou - The complete footballer. The balance and grace he displayed was breathtaking. Did it at the highest level in WC finals and CL finals. The paneka penalty was outrageous and breathtaking along with one of the greatest CL final goals of all time. When he got sent off in his final WC game I felt like crying. It was the most disappointed I have ever felt.
2. Ronaldo (R9) - Unplayable pre-knee injury and not far off that afterwards. His acceleration and speed was a think of beauty. I get goosebumps watching him. The clip where he elastico’s round Nesta I could watch all day.
3. Messi - Falls short of being my GOAT due to no WC win but I’m nit picking. He’s insane to watch and one of a kind. Breathtaking player.
4. Ronaldo (R7) - On a par with Messi. Never understood the hate he gets. A model professional, a machine who strives to be better every year. Scored goals few others can.
5. Ronaldinho - Did things no one else could ever do. The flair and freedom he played with was unmatched in my opinion. Watch a collection of his no look assists as an example of his genius.
I’d say that’s also my top 5 but I’d have Ronaldinho and CR7 ahead of Messi. 1. Zizou - The complete footballer. The balance and grace he displayed was breathtaking. Did it at the highest level in WC finals and CL finals. The paneka penalty was outrageous and breathtaking along with one of the greatest CL final goals of all time. When he got sent off in his final WC game I felt like crying. It was the most disappointed I have ever felt.
2. Ronaldo (R9) - Unplayable pre-knee injury and not far off that afterwards. His acceleration and speed was a think of beauty. I get goosebumps watching him. The clip where he elastico’s round Nesta I could watch all day.
3. Messi - Falls short of being my GOAT due to no WC win but I’m nit picking. He’s insane to watch and one of a kind. Breathtaking player.
4. Ronaldo (R7) - On a par with Messi. Never understood the hate he gets. A model professional, a machine who strives to be better every year. Scored goals few others can.
5. Ronaldinho - Did things no one else could ever do. The flair and freedom he played with was unmatched in my opinion. Watch a collection of his no look assists as an example of his genius.
I don’t see what the fuss is with Pele, football was different then.
Unless you've seen them all in action a few times you can't really make a judgement.
I've been fortunate to have seen all of the greats and it's correct that the game today isn't the same as the game of 30 years ago but you can only judge a player in the context of his time.
So for me it's:
Pele
Madonna
Messi
Ronaldo
Best
With an honourable mention for Greaves
I've been fortunate to have seen all of the greats and it's correct that the game today isn't the same as the game of 30 years ago but you can only judge a player in the context of his time.
So for me it's:
Pele
Madonna
Messi
Ronaldo
Best
With an honourable mention for Greaves
Gadgetmac said:
Unless you've seen them all in action a few times you can't really make a judgement.
I've been fortunate to have seen all of the greats and it's correct that the game today isn't the same as the game of 30 years ago but you can only judge a player in the context of his time.
So for me it's:
Pele
Madonna
Messi
Ronaldo
Best
Agreed, and the same 5 for me too (assuming it's C.Ronaldo on your list, rather than Fat Ronaldo)I've been fortunate to have seen all of the greats and it's correct that the game today isn't the same as the game of 30 years ago but you can only judge a player in the context of his time.
So for me it's:
Pele
Madonna
Messi
Ronaldo
Best
I think George Best was overrated, and I saw him many times in his prime. Yes he was supremely talented, but he only really had four years at the top 1968-1971, after that he went downhill rapidly, retiring in his mid twenties.
Without his personal problems he MAY have gone on to be "the greatest", but by 1972 he was playing in a s
t United team anyway, with stars who were past it...Charlton, Law etc.
Without his personal problems he MAY have gone on to be "the greatest", but by 1972 he was playing in a s
t United team anyway, with stars who were past it...Charlton, Law etc.Cruyff?
i think the massively talented would have risen to the top no matter what era they played in. Pele or the like with modern day nutrition, fitness etc. would have been s sight to behold still
I can only go by the words of a man I respect massively and who's watched them all play over the years - namely my old man. He watched Pele, Cruyff, Best and the like in his teenage years and follows football to this day
His unbiased opinion is that Messi is the best that he has ever seen, with R7 a very close 2nd
But he says he would still have John Charles and Duncan Edwards up there as well
i think the massively talented would have risen to the top no matter what era they played in. Pele or the like with modern day nutrition, fitness etc. would have been s sight to behold still
I can only go by the words of a man I respect massively and who's watched them all play over the years - namely my old man. He watched Pele, Cruyff, Best and the like in his teenage years and follows football to this day
His unbiased opinion is that Messi is the best that he has ever seen, with R7 a very close 2nd
But he says he would still have John Charles and Duncan Edwards up there as well
Wacky Racer said:
I think George Best was overrated, and I saw him many times in his prime. Yes he was supremely talented, but he only really had four years at the top 1968-1971, after that he went downhill rapidly, retiring in his mid twenties.
Without his personal problems he MAY have gone on to be "the greatest", but by 1972 he was playing in a st United team anyway, with stars who were past it...Charlton, Law etc.
I agree. Best, Pele, Maradonna, Cruyff, Beckenbauer etc... were undoubtedly greats in their day but I’m pretty certain CR7 and Messi would make them look like amateurs in a 5 a side match. The current breed are a different class, look at Ronaldo, the guy is a pure athlete, a student of the game, everything he does is to be better at football. The era of Best and Pele etc was very different. No fault of their own but I don’t think they can be spoken about as the best ever anymore.Without his personal problems he MAY have gone on to be "the greatest", but by 1972 he was playing in a s
t United team anyway, with stars who were past it...Charlton, Law etc.Same can probably be said in 25 years time... there will be someone better than Ronaldo and Messi.
Its all relative though. If defences were so bad back in the 70's why were there not dozens of Peles scoring 1000 goals? The technology and understanding of sport now is hugely advanced compared to years gone by. You cannot honestly say Ronaldo would run rings around a player from 40 years ago and justify that as an argument for being a better player - what if Pele had access to all the technology, training methods, the approach of breeding kids in multi million pound training facilities from the age of 7 etc. how good would Pele have been if he was around now.
The only way to compare is how players compared to their peers in their time period. Pele was miles, and I mean miles ahead of his peers. Hell, he was Brazils back up goalkeeper. Is Messi that far ahead of his peers? (not saying he isn't but thats what you need to look at).
Cryuff reinvented football, Pele outscored his peers by around x5 over, Maradona can honestly say he won the world cup on his own. Can Messi claim any of this? (again I am not saying he can't but thats how I would measure it). I also note that most of us were not around to see football pre 1960, so how can we possibly put together a list like this?
Other players worth a mention
DiStefano
Eusebio
Lev Yashin
Platini
Fontaine
The only way to compare is how players compared to their peers in their time period. Pele was miles, and I mean miles ahead of his peers. Hell, he was Brazils back up goalkeeper. Is Messi that far ahead of his peers? (not saying he isn't but thats what you need to look at).
Cryuff reinvented football, Pele outscored his peers by around x5 over, Maradona can honestly say he won the world cup on his own. Can Messi claim any of this? (again I am not saying he can't but thats how I would measure it). I also note that most of us were not around to see football pre 1960, so how can we possibly put together a list like this?
Other players worth a mention
DiStefano
Eusebio
Lev Yashin
Platini
Fontaine
Pele biggest fraud in sporting history. Scored most of his goals against blind schoolchildren.
https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-p...
Funny piece to illustrate my point.^
https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-p...
Funny piece to illustrate my point.^
Edited by ScottyBroons on Monday 8th July 11:32
Ronaldo (CR7)... begrudgingly as I can't stand the bloke.
Why? From a teenager he's played consistently well and to the highest level for a number of clubs now (whereas Messi is only proven at 1 club, who arguably have built a team around him). And even at 34 he's still performing at the very top and barring injury looks as if he's got a good few years left in him (whereas at that age Maradona's star was definitely fading). His consistency is why I'd place him above Ronaldo (9) or Ronaldinho.
The only other player who comes close in my opinion would be Zidane, his ability to read the game as a player was unrivalled, and this shows through in his success as a manager today.
1. (Cristiano) Ronaldo
2. Zidane
3. Maradona
Why? From a teenager he's played consistently well and to the highest level for a number of clubs now (whereas Messi is only proven at 1 club, who arguably have built a team around him). And even at 34 he's still performing at the very top and barring injury looks as if he's got a good few years left in him (whereas at that age Maradona's star was definitely fading). His consistency is why I'd place him above Ronaldo (9) or Ronaldinho.
The only other player who comes close in my opinion would be Zidane, his ability to read the game as a player was unrivalled, and this shows through in his success as a manager today.
1. (Cristiano) Ronaldo
2. Zidane
3. Maradona
I agree with the above posts - all the greatest players are indicative of their times and fitness/methods.
Messi is probably the greatest I have seen but Ronaldo could equally be the greatest ever - they are chalk and cheese, two players with totally different games. Defenders would hate to face either - Messi with his touch and ghostly moves, the way he rides tackles etc, or Ronaldo blistering, explosive pace and directness, his all-round game could be considered better than Messi.
But go back some years and other players could be the best for various reasons- midfielders who rarely score - should they be excluded? Should greatness to be measured in the goals scored column?
My top five;
1. Messi/Ronaldo
3. Maradona - his brilliance cannot be overstated.
4. Del Piero - a fine midfielder
5. Bergkamp - so classy. (my personal favourite player - maybe not a top 5 contender
)
6. Honourable mention for Steve Bull (as a Wolves fan!)
Messi is probably the greatest I have seen but Ronaldo could equally be the greatest ever - they are chalk and cheese, two players with totally different games. Defenders would hate to face either - Messi with his touch and ghostly moves, the way he rides tackles etc, or Ronaldo blistering, explosive pace and directness, his all-round game could be considered better than Messi.
But go back some years and other players could be the best for various reasons- midfielders who rarely score - should they be excluded? Should greatness to be measured in the goals scored column?
My top five;
1. Messi/Ronaldo
3. Maradona - his brilliance cannot be overstated.
4. Del Piero - a fine midfielder
5. Bergkamp - so classy. (my personal favourite player - maybe not a top 5 contender
)6. Honourable mention for Steve Bull (as a Wolves fan!)
Yes there is an obsession with goal scorers as always, you only have to look at the Balloon d'or winners list.
Franco Baresi was imperious for over 20 years, Bobby Moore read the game better than any player you will see including Zidane. Stanley Matthews played in the top league until he was 50 years old. For the younger members on here just go on YT and look at the state of the pitches Matthews had to play on, the ball he had to use, the boots he had on and he could still dribble like Messi at his best.
Franco Baresi was imperious for over 20 years, Bobby Moore read the game better than any player you will see including Zidane. Stanley Matthews played in the top league until he was 50 years old. For the younger members on here just go on YT and look at the state of the pitches Matthews had to play on, the ball he had to use, the boots he had on and he could still dribble like Messi at his best.
ColdoRS said:
Wacky Racer said:
I think George Best was overrated, and I saw him many times in his prime. Yes he was supremely talented, but he only really had four years at the top 1968-1971, after that he went downhill rapidly, retiring in his mid twenties.
Without his personal problems he MAY have gone on to be "the greatest", but by 1972 he was playing in a st United team anyway, with stars who were past it...Charlton, Law etc.
I agree. Best, Pele, Maradonna, Cruyff, Beckenbauer etc... were undoubtedly greats in their day but I’m pretty certain CR7 and Messi would make them look like amateurs in a 5 a side match. The current breed are a different class, look at Ronaldo, the guy is a pure athlete, a student of the game, everything he does is to be better at football. The era of Best and Pele etc was very different. No fault of their own but I don’t think they can be spoken about as the best ever anymore.Without his personal problems he MAY have gone on to be "the greatest", but by 1972 he was playing in a s
t United team anyway, with stars who were past it...Charlton, Law etc.Same can probably be said in 25 years time... there will be someone better than Ronaldo and Messi.
Maradonna almost single handedly won the World Cup for Argentina and then took a mid-table Napoli to the Serie A Championship - twice.
By contrast what have Messi and Ronaldo done? They've always played in great sides that would have been great even without them. Ronaldo has just gone from Real to Juventus who've won the league for the last 7 years! Messi refuses to ever leave Barca for a new challenge. He also does bugger all when wearing the Argentine shirt except get sent off.
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