BT & Amazon in for remaining PL TV packages
Discussion
Silverage said:
Amazon’s matches are over just 2 days though (they can show all 10 Boxing Day games for example), so I don’t think I’d be buying Prime just to see 2 or 3 live matches.
Yes and the other 10 are all on a midweek evening. Effectively 20 matches, but only 2 days worth of football. One Wed eve match and one or 2 boxing day matches and that's it.This I see as excellent news. Sky needs shaking up and to now have a proper, genuine giant sniffing around hopefully both Sky and BT will up their game.
Particularly with Sky, the underlying smarminess of the West London presenting team, some absolute dinosaurs who’ve been there for 20 years plus, the tired graphics and weak content - they’re no exemplar in the world of sports broadcasting. Compared to the American sports broadcasters Sky is content and detail light, and hopefully we’ll get introduced to a new mode. I mean who on earth pays Thierry Henry £4m? That’s bad negotiation. Just because he talks in delicate long pauses like some third rate Left Bank philosopher doesn’t make him one. But it’s all a bit chummy.
As for BT, well it’s a miracle they get any content out at all considering what a basket case of a company Patterson runs.
If I’m Scudamore though I’d imagine through the PR smiles today at the back of his mind he might be wondering what a Goliath like Amazon will be like to deal with in the future. He’s cosily upped the numbers with Sky over the years and merrily enjoyed the rampant inflation. But if Amazon start to think they like this new plaything and want more of the pie down the line.....Scudamore and the PL will start to realise what dealing with Amazon is really like, and they won’t be calling the shots.
Particularly with Sky, the underlying smarminess of the West London presenting team, some absolute dinosaurs who’ve been there for 20 years plus, the tired graphics and weak content - they’re no exemplar in the world of sports broadcasting. Compared to the American sports broadcasters Sky is content and detail light, and hopefully we’ll get introduced to a new mode. I mean who on earth pays Thierry Henry £4m? That’s bad negotiation. Just because he talks in delicate long pauses like some third rate Left Bank philosopher doesn’t make him one. But it’s all a bit chummy.
As for BT, well it’s a miracle they get any content out at all considering what a basket case of a company Patterson runs.
If I’m Scudamore though I’d imagine through the PR smiles today at the back of his mind he might be wondering what a Goliath like Amazon will be like to deal with in the future. He’s cosily upped the numbers with Sky over the years and merrily enjoyed the rampant inflation. But if Amazon start to think they like this new plaything and want more of the pie down the line.....Scudamore and the PL will start to realise what dealing with Amazon is really like, and they won’t be calling the shots.
Depends on how much Amazon wants to commit to it. They could have bid for the larger packages this time around, but chose not to.
Problem with Sports rights is that there is no ongoing value, people watch it once and that is it. Whereas the $4bn Netflix is spending on drama is accounted for over many years as people will re-watch multiple times, or discover shows in 10 years time and unlike premiership rights, can be shown globally.
Hence why Amazon are just dipping their toes in to feel it out.
Problem with Sports rights is that there is no ongoing value, people watch it once and that is it. Whereas the $4bn Netflix is spending on drama is accounted for over many years as people will re-watch multiple times, or discover shows in 10 years time and unlike premiership rights, can be shown globally.
Hence why Amazon are just dipping their toes in to feel it out.
Silverage said:
Amazon’s matches are over just 2 days though (they can show all 10 Boxing Day games for example), so I don’t think I’d be buying Prime just to see 2 or 3 live matches.
I think the strategic play is less about picking up the odd subscriber to Prime just for the football, but more an experiment to see what audience figures are like for that narrow swathe of games (from existing Prime users) and whether at the next round they really flex their muscles and blow the incumbents out the water and Sky’s business model suddenly starts to look unhealthy.We all know there’s a media and content war going on. Hollywood, Netflix, Apple, Facebook, Disney etc. When you’ve got a 60” TV, popcorn maker and nice padded red leather chairs all in your own basement cinema, the days of going to the local Odean to catch a premiere are starting to whither.
The days of paying £50/month for Sky TV with worsening content over the years and locked into a lengthy contract with ratty old technology in a lumpy set top box....well I bet if Sky shared the demographic ownership figures on who’s using their platform, it won’t be pleasant reading in the next few years.
tigerkoi said:
I think the strategic play is less about picking up the odd subscriber to Prime just for the football, but more an experiment to see what audience figures are like for that narrow swathe of games (from existing Prime users) and whether at the next round they really flex their muscles and blow the incumbents out the water and Sky’s business model suddenly starts to look unhealthy.
We all know there’s a media and content war going on. Hollywood, Netflix, Apple, Facebook, Disney etc. When you’ve got a 60” TV, popcorn maker and nice padded red leather chairs all in your own basement cinema, the days of going to the local Odean to catch a premiere are starting to whither.
The days of paying £50/month for Sky TV with worsening content over the years and locked into a lengthy contract with ratty old technology in a lumpy set top box....well I bet if Sky shared the demographic ownership figures on who’s using their platform, it won’t be pleasant reading in the next few years.
I think you're right about the Amazon dipping their toes in the water to see what viewing figures are like. It's basically just a trial they've bid on and won.We all know there’s a media and content war going on. Hollywood, Netflix, Apple, Facebook, Disney etc. When you’ve got a 60” TV, popcorn maker and nice padded red leather chairs all in your own basement cinema, the days of going to the local Odean to catch a premiere are starting to whither.
The days of paying £50/month for Sky TV with worsening content over the years and locked into a lengthy contract with ratty old technology in a lumpy set top box....well I bet if Sky shared the demographic ownership figures on who’s using their platform, it won’t be pleasant reading in the next few years.
I don't think they are in a position to squeeze the PL for contracts though, no matter how big they are. The PL own the rights so Amazon will need to pony up like everyone else if they want to expand their PL offering.
I do think you're off on the content bit. Sky blows everyone else out of the water for content and combined with skyQ, 4k, Dolby Atmos and hdr on the way, plus the new interface, it's right up there tech wise too.
The way I see it, BT, Amazon, Netflix are basically supplement viewing packages to the much surperior sky, rather than an alternative. But thats just my opinion as a film fan and a sports fan. If you're not into sport or movies, the other packages are probably a better value choice I would say.
If I was a Sky customer (I never have been), I wouldn't be at all concerned by this announcement. You've already got nearly 400 PL matches lined up for the next 3 years. If you actually manage to watch every match they broadcast, then you really need to get out more! Missing out on what might effectively be just 4 more matches per season on BT and Amazon combined isn't such a big deal really. In fact why not get someone to buy you an actual Boxing Day match ticket for Christmas, then you can literally stick two fingers up to the Amazon TV cameras!
The fact is that all the Premier League's UK TV deals are now done and dusted for the next 4 seasons, so Facebook, Google, Netflix and all the others are just going to have to twiddle their thumbs for a few more years. A lot could have changed by then.
The fact is that all the Premier League's UK TV deals are now done and dusted for the next 4 seasons, so Facebook, Google, Netflix and all the others are just going to have to twiddle their thumbs for a few more years. A lot could have changed by then.
HRL said:
I think healthy competition is much needed next time the bids are available.
And Amazon could certainly be a big player if they choose to. As a Prime member at least I’ll be able to watch a few 4K streamed games without paying the Sky tax.
The healthy competition is a double edged sword for the premier league. As a sky subscriber, I'm also BT sport subscriber but that's only because of the btsport supplement via bt broadband. And Amazon could certainly be a big player if they choose to. As a Prime member at least I’ll be able to watch a few 4K streamed games without paying the Sky tax.
The risk that if 3 providers end up with an equal share, punters throw the head up and subscribe to none. I would prefer one expensive subscription to 3 mid range subscriptions. I guess the PL know this, and will always ensure there is one dominant purchase. Risky business getting 3 big players in with higher subscription costs and customer going, damn sure I'm not paying 3 different providers and end up not watching any at all.
LotusOmega375D said:
If I was a Sky customer (I never have been), I wouldn't be at all concerned by this announcement. You've already got nearly 400 PL matches lined up for the next 3 years. If you actually manage to watch every match they broadcast, then you really need to get out more! Missing out on what might effectively be just 4 more matches per season on BT and Amazon combined isn't such a big deal really. In fact why not get someone to buy you an actual Boxing Day match ticket for Christmas, then you can literally stick two fingers up to the Amazon TV cameras!
The fact is that all the Premier League's UK TV deals are now done and dusted for the next 4 seasons, so Facebook, Google, Netflix and all the others are just going to have to twiddle their thumbs for a few more years. A lot could have changed by then.
@Soupdragon - I do actually agree with you on the Sky platform/content quality angle. I was being a touch bThe fact is that all the Premier League's UK TV deals are now done and dusted for the next 4 seasons, so Facebook, Google, Netflix and all the others are just going to have to twiddle their thumbs for a few more years. A lot could have changed by then.
hy about Sky and just feel that whilst they do good things, through lack of domestic competition they should really be shooting the lights out more. Check out HBO for instance when you’re the other side of the Atlantic and then question whether Sky have a bar to aim for. Not by design but rather lazy inability to rationalise I’ve got them all! Netflix, Prime, Sky, BT, Spanish satellite packages...not withstanding a fair few freeview boxes in different places. It’s quite frightening when I’ve got a bit of time and then get reminded of outgoings 
Lotus, I sort of see what you’re saying but I’d reiterate this is all but part of a wider media war. It’ll play out over the next 3-5 years but akin to the introduction of the iPhone and the way Apple brought telcos to their knees (the subsequent rise and fall of AT&T and Verizon respectively) it’s about who ‘thinks’ they own the customer and who actually does.
Maybe I’m too bearish on Sky but look at it this way: Sky is installed in millions of homes as the centrepiece of the family entertainment system. Lots and lots of long 24month £50+ contracts. Nice. The 21st century British Telecom. But widely the person billed is the mum or dad. When their kids leave home or to uni as long as they have the internet they’ll consume a variety of other content. Long bit short. The ownership demographics of Sky contracts will inevitably change in the next few years. For many young people today the only contract they are happy to be locked into is the mobile phone one. Watching standard ‘telly’ is not on the radar of many of today’s young. It’s anathama to them. So if say a Facebook or Google or whoever go in big in subsequent bidding rounds for PL viewing, and people then end up bit by bit dropping their heavy monthly Sky deals and their set top boxes (as generally media consumption trends are evolving) then IF the likes of Sky want to play back in, they might find the big blind prohibitive.
This is part of a grander media war and the likes of Sky will have to play the next few years extremely well. The Silicon Valley competition (Apple, Facebook, Amazon etc) has £2 trillion sitting in bank accounts ready for them to dominate wherever they decide to pitch up and play. Sky know this and have been wrestling with it for a few years now. They know the landscape is shifting.
Who owns the customer?
tigerkoi said:
LotusOmega375D said:
If I was a Sky customer (I never have been), I wouldn't be at all concerned by this announcement. You've already got nearly 400 PL matches lined up for the next 3 years. If you actually manage to watch every match they broadcast, then you really need to get out more! Missing out on what might effectively be just 4 more matches per season on BT and Amazon combined isn't such a big deal really. In fact why not get someone to buy you an actual Boxing Day match ticket for Christmas, then you can literally stick two fingers up to the Amazon TV cameras!
The fact is that all the Premier League's UK TV deals are now done and dusted for the next 4 seasons, so Facebook, Google, Netflix and all the others are just going to have to twiddle their thumbs for a few more years. A lot could have changed by then.
@Soupdragon - I do actually agree with you on the Sky platform/content quality angle. I was being a touch bThe fact is that all the Premier League's UK TV deals are now done and dusted for the next 4 seasons, so Facebook, Google, Netflix and all the others are just going to have to twiddle their thumbs for a few more years. A lot could have changed by then.
hy about Sky and just feel that whilst they do good things, through lack of domestic competition they should really be shooting the lights out more. Check out HBO for instance when you’re the other side of the Atlantic and then question whether Sky have a bar to aim for. Not by design but rather lazy inability to rationalise I’ve got them all! Netflix, Prime, Sky, BT, Spanish satellite packages...not withstanding a fair few freeview boxes in different places. It’s quite frightening when I’ve got a bit of time and then get reminded of outgoings Lotus, I sort of see what you’re saying but I’d reiterate this is all but part of a wider media war. It’ll play out over the next 3-5 years but akin to the introduction of the iPhone and the way Apple brought telcos to their knees (the subsequent rise and fall of AT&T and Verizon respectively) it’s about who ‘thinks’ they own the customer and who actually does.
Maybe I’m too bearish on Sky but look at it this way: Sky is installed in millions of homes as the centrepiece of the family entertainment system. Lots and lots of long 24month £50+ contracts. Nice. The 21st century British Telecom. But widely the person billed is the mum or dad. When their kids leave home or to uni as long as they have the internet they’ll consume a variety of other content. Long bit short. The ownership demographics of Sky contracts will inevitably change in the next few years. For many young people today the only contract they are happy to be locked into is the mobile phone one. Watching standard ‘telly’ is not on the radar of many of today’s young. It’s anathama to them. So if say a Facebook or Google or whoever go in big in subsequent bidding rounds for PL viewing, and people then end up bit by bit dropping their heavy monthly Sky deals and their set top boxes (as generally media consumption trends are evolving) then IF the likes of Sky want to play back in, they might find the big blind prohibitive.
This is part of a grander media war and the likes of Sky will have to play the next few years extremely well. The Silicon Valley competition (Apple, Facebook, Amazon etc) has £2 trillion sitting in bank accounts ready for them to dominate wherever they decide to pitch up and play. Sky know this and have been wrestling with it for a few years now. They know the landscape is shifting.
Who owns the customer?
I would like to see a future of 'pay as you watch' as that seems the most fair way of charging customers. I know that I'm paying for formula 1 and cricket, despite not watching any cricket and only a small amount of F1. How they would model that in a pricing structure is another thing.
I know a lot of people don't like sky as they know their sub is funding content they don't watch.
soupdragon1 said:
All very interesting that and I agree, the future is very uncertain. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. I guess it's about who plays the best hand too.
I would like to see a future of 'pay as you watch' as that seems the most fair way of charging customers. I know that I'm paying for formula 1 and cricket, despite not watching any cricket and only a small amount of F1. How they would model that in a pricing structure is another thing.
I know a lot of people don't like sky as they know their sub is funding content they don't watch.
It’s a really fascinating situation with corporate strategies and loads of companies shifting and aiming to be nimble enough to not be left standing with heavy infrastructure but no content. A good debate I would like to see a future of 'pay as you watch' as that seems the most fair way of charging customers. I know that I'm paying for formula 1 and cricket, despite not watching any cricket and only a small amount of F1. How they would model that in a pricing structure is another thing.
I know a lot of people don't like sky as they know their sub is funding content they don't watch.
Pay as you watch is tough and tricky to design I’d say but you never know.
Interestingly Scudamore has just resigned.....
tigerkoi said:
Interestingly Scudamore has just resigned.....
Wouldn't be surprised if he thinks it's job done and he can't take it any further.This is the first sign of the juggernaut slowing down so I wouldn't be at all surprised if the big guns take more control next time and get a much bigger slice of the pie.
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