Yellow card sin bins
Discussion
Is on the cards.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38824937
I don't think this is a good idea. It works in rugby because the laws are clear, the interpretation is clear, and video replays are used to analyse the incident from numerous angles before cards are issued.
For me yellows in football can be completely random so this will be unworkable.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38824937
I don't think this is a good idea. It works in rugby because the laws are clear, the interpretation is clear, and video replays are used to analyse the incident from numerous angles before cards are issued.
For me yellows in football can be completely random so this will be unworkable.
Why wouldn't it work? It has the potential to work better than the current system. Once a player is on a yellow they are less effective and scared of a ref making a stupid mistake and sending him off for another yellow. With this system he can still play 100% and may go off for 10 mins. Likewise towards the end of the match you get defenders making terrible challenges as they know it's only a yellow no real punishment with so little time left I can do what I like.
Works well in Rugby.
Works well in Rugby.
No need to tinker with any of the rules. Just apply the rules that are in place.
Referees moan about "respect" yet don't punish players for abusive language, gestures. Referees need to clamp down hard on every, and I mean, every offence. A broken windows approach, at least at first. Bring the players back into line.
The managers will soon take note and drill the players when they're finishing games with 8 players because someone took throw ins from the wrong place, a player swore etc, etc.
Referees moan about "respect" yet don't punish players for abusive language, gestures. Referees need to clamp down hard on every, and I mean, every offence. A broken windows approach, at least at first. Bring the players back into line.
The managers will soon take note and drill the players when they're finishing games with 8 players because someone took throw ins from the wrong place, a player swore etc, etc.
Hackney said:
No need to tinker with any of the rules. Just apply the rules that are in place.
Referees moan about "respect" yet don't punish players for abusive language, gestures. Referees need to clamp down hard on every, and I mean, every offence. A broken windows approach, at least at first. Bring the players back into line.
The managers will soon take note and drill the players when they're finishing games with 8 players because someone took throw ins from the wrong place, a player swore etc, etc.
Referees are duty bound to act in line with the directives they are handed down prior to the season starting. So it's largely out of their hands.Referees moan about "respect" yet don't punish players for abusive language, gestures. Referees need to clamp down hard on every, and I mean, every offence. A broken windows approach, at least at first. Bring the players back into line.
The managers will soon take note and drill the players when they're finishing games with 8 players because someone took throw ins from the wrong place, a player swore etc, etc.
Respect needs to come from the FA, who recently let Arsene Wenger off with a piddly 4 game touchline ban for pushing an official and calling the ref a cheat!
Hackney said:
No need to tinker with any of the rules. Just apply the rules that are in place.
Referees moan about "respect" yet don't punish players for abusive language, gestures. Referees need to clamp down hard on every, and I mean, every offence. A broken windows approach, at least at first. Bring the players back into line.
The managers will soon take note and drill the players when they're finishing games with 8 players because someone took throw ins from the wrong place, a player swore etc, etc.
This is very true I was at a game Saturday and the ref got some horrible abuse with players yelling in his face! All he did was run away! He ended up giving 3 penalties completely lost control of the game. Referees moan about "respect" yet don't punish players for abusive language, gestures. Referees need to clamp down hard on every, and I mean, every offence. A broken windows approach, at least at first. Bring the players back into line.
The managers will soon take note and drill the players when they're finishing games with 8 players because someone took throw ins from the wrong place, a player swore etc, etc.
My 2 pet peeves
1) When from the kick off goal keepers waste time by faffing about with the position of the ball on goal kicks, normally the opposite side of the goal where it went out. Ref does SFA until the 89th minute when he flashes a yellow
goals kick should be taken from the side it went out. The same as corner kick requirements
2) the refs not enforcing law 12 (copied from the rule book
122 LAW 12 – FOULS AND MISCONDUCT
Offences committed by goalkeepers
A goalkeeper is not permitted to keep control of the ball in his hands for more
than six seconds. A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball:
• while the ball is between his hands or between his hand and any surface
(e.g. ground, own body)
• while holding the ball in his outstretched open hand
• while in the act of bouncing it on the ground or tossing it into the air
During the next match you watch, either live, or on TV see how many times this is ignored by the ref
1) When from the kick off goal keepers waste time by faffing about with the position of the ball on goal kicks, normally the opposite side of the goal where it went out. Ref does SFA until the 89th minute when he flashes a yellow
goals kick should be taken from the side it went out. The same as corner kick requirements
2) the refs not enforcing law 12 (copied from the rule book
122 LAW 12 – FOULS AND MISCONDUCT
Offences committed by goalkeepers
A goalkeeper is not permitted to keep control of the ball in his hands for more
than six seconds. A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball:
• while the ball is between his hands or between his hand and any surface
(e.g. ground, own body)
• while holding the ball in his outstretched open hand
• while in the act of bouncing it on the ground or tossing it into the air
During the next match you watch, either live, or on TV see how many times this is ignored by the ref
silverfoxcc said:
During the next match you watch, either live, or on TV see how many times this is ignored by the ref
It's not the ref's fault. Laws change very rarely but directives change every season. Take offside. Most people would say that law changes constantly. But in fact there's only been 1 change in living memory, in that level used to be off and now it's on. Other than that it hasn't changed, just directives to refs on how to interpret the law. Referee's are told prior to each season how to interpret certain laws, what to be lenient on and what to be strict on. Any pro ref going against that and enforcing a law they've been told to not enforce strictly wouldn't be reffing beyondg the first week.
silverfoxcc said:
Twig
If that is the case, then bin the bloody rule. It is rather pointless and pisstaking to book a keeper in the 94th minute for timewasting when they have been doing it since kick off
Eventually the bookings may lead to a suspension, so not completely pointless. Timewasting is one of those things you only notice when the score doesn't suit you. If that is the case, then bin the bloody rule. It is rather pointless and pisstaking to book a keeper in the 94th minute for timewasting when they have been doing it since kick off
hornetrider said:
Is on the cards.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38824937
I don't think this is a good idea. It works in rugby because the laws are clear, the interpretation is clear, and video replays are used to analyse the incident from numerous angles before cards are issued.
For me yellows in football can be completely random so this will be unworkable.
Agreed it would be unworkable. http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38824937
I don't think this is a good idea. It works in rugby because the laws are clear, the interpretation is clear, and video replays are used to analyse the incident from numerous angles before cards are issued.
For me yellows in football can be completely random so this will be unworkable.
silverfoxcc said:
My 2 pet peeves
1) When from the kick off goal keepers waste time by faffing about with the position of the ball on goal kicks, normally the opposite side of the goal where it went out. Ref does SFA until the 89th minute when he flashes a yellow
goals kick should be taken from the side it went out. The same as corner kick requirements
2) the refs not enforcing law 12 (copied from the rule book
122 LAW 12 – FOULS AND MISCONDUCT
Offences committed by goalkeepers
A goalkeeper is not permitted to keep control of the ball in his hands for more
than six seconds. A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball:
• while the ball is between his hands or between his hand and any surface
(e.g. ground, own body)
• while holding the ball in his outstretched open hand
• while in the act of bouncing it on the ground or tossing it into the air
During the next match you watch, either live, or on TV see how many times this is ignored by the ref
Your number 1, is a great example of a rule being brought in to speed up the game yet having the opposite effect.1) When from the kick off goal keepers waste time by faffing about with the position of the ball on goal kicks, normally the opposite side of the goal where it went out. Ref does SFA until the 89th minute when he flashes a yellow
goals kick should be taken from the side it went out. The same as corner kick requirements
2) the refs not enforcing law 12 (copied from the rule book
122 LAW 12 – FOULS AND MISCONDUCT
Offences committed by goalkeepers
A goalkeeper is not permitted to keep control of the ball in his hands for more
than six seconds. A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball:
• while the ball is between his hands or between his hand and any surface
(e.g. ground, own body)
• while holding the ball in his outstretched open hand
• while in the act of bouncing it on the ground or tossing it into the air
During the next match you watch, either live, or on TV see how many times this is ignored by the ref
"goals kick should be taken from the side it went out" - this used to be the rule, but because the ball could be crossed (badly) from the right wing, go behind and continue to travel behind the goal to the left wing corner flag the rule was changed to allow the 'keeper to fetch the ball to the nearest side of the 6yd box to take the goal kick. This rule change effectively allows the 'keeper to choose sides so they go across the goal and therefore waste more time.
A similar thing happened with injuries after the '94 world cup in the USA. Players were feigning injury to waste time, so - to speed things up - they were removed from the pitch for treatment. But, this caused problems with moving potentially badly injured players. So, players are now treated on the pitch before being made to go to the touchline to stand for a bit until the ref allows them back on.
The utterly, utterly stupid upshot of this is your star player has to leave the pitch and misses out on the free kick (and subsequent passage of play) that resulted from him being fouled in the first place.
Oh and don't get me started on goals scored in 90+5 minutes. NO NO NO NO NO. We do not play 95 minutes. We play 90. If the 90 minutes play stretches over 3 frigging days we still play only 90 minutes.
So no to sin bins, yes (a thousand times yes) to a match clock controlled by the 4th official, clearly displayed to fans. It's stopped whenever play stops, so the referee can clearly show the dawdling substituted player that he is not actually wasting time. They manage to do it in most other sports, eg rugby, so why not football?
Hackney said:
A similar thing happened with injuries after the '94 world cup in the USA. Players were feigning injury to waste time, so - to speed things up - they were removed from the pitch for treatment. But, this caused problems with moving potentially badly injured players. So, players are now treated on the pitch before being made to go to the touchline to stand for a bit until the ref allows them back on.
The utterly, utterly stupid upshot of this is your star player has to leave the pitch and misses out on the free kick (and subsequent passage of play) that resulted from him being fouled in the first place.
Oh and don't get me started on goals scored in 90+5 minutes. NO NO NO NO NO. We do not play 95 minutes. We play 90. If the 90 minutes play stretches over 3 frigging days we still play only 90 minutes.
So no to sin bins, yes (a thousand times yes) to a match clock controlled by the 4th official, clearly displayed to fans. It's stopped whenever play stops, so the referee can clearly show the dawdling substituted player that he is not actually wasting time. They manage to do it in most other sports, eg rugby, so why not football?
Players can now play on after treatment if the other player receives a yellow which helps a little.The utterly, utterly stupid upshot of this is your star player has to leave the pitch and misses out on the free kick (and subsequent passage of play) that resulted from him being fouled in the first place.
Oh and don't get me started on goals scored in 90+5 minutes. NO NO NO NO NO. We do not play 95 minutes. We play 90. If the 90 minutes play stretches over 3 frigging days we still play only 90 minutes.
So no to sin bins, yes (a thousand times yes) to a match clock controlled by the 4th official, clearly displayed to fans. It's stopped whenever play stops, so the referee can clearly show the dawdling substituted player that he is not actually wasting time. They manage to do it in most other sports, eg rugby, so why not football?
Problem with the stop start clock, football averages about 55 minutes of actual ball in play time. By this calculation games would need to go on nearly an hour more to actually have 90 minutes of ball in play time. If you then say you only stop the clock for certain things, then you leave the unlisted bits up for abuse.
Source here... http://www.soccermetrics.net/team-performance/effe...
Why all the fuss about time wasting. When you're one up in injury time, seeing your team taking an age to do anything, and seeing the opposition fans going mental with fury, especially if you're away from home, is one of the great joys of football. And when the opposition are doing it to you, you are furious.
Isn't that why we go to football, for joy and fury. Highs and lows of emotion? It's why I go. I want to come away ecstatic or gutted, not some bland in-between feeling of justice having being done or the outcome being fair.
Isn't that why we go to football, for joy and fury. Highs and lows of emotion? It's why I go. I want to come away ecstatic or gutted, not some bland in-between feeling of justice having being done or the outcome being fair.
Boydie88 said:
Players can now play on after treatment if the other player receives a yellow which helps a little.
Problem with the stop start clock, football averages about 55 minutes of actual ball in play time. By this calculation games would need to go on nearly an hour more to actually have 90 minutes of ball in play time. If you then say you only stop the clock for certain things, then you leave the unlisted bits up for abuse.
Source here... http://www.soccermetrics.net/team-performance/effe...
The clock is stopped for certain things now. What I'm saying is continue to stop the clock for those things, but display a clock that stops, not a (reported) clock that shows a physical impossibility, the 97th minute goal.Problem with the stop start clock, football averages about 55 minutes of actual ball in play time. By this calculation games would need to go on nearly an hour more to actually have 90 minutes of ball in play time. If you then say you only stop the clock for certain things, then you leave the unlisted bits up for abuse.
Source here... http://www.soccermetrics.net/team-performance/effe...
Ball boys and the close proximity of the crowd mean there's little or no delay for throw-ins for example, unless the player has the ball and is clearly taking the p**s. But at goals, substitutions and injuries the clock should physically stop and be seen to be stopped.
In American football the game clock can actually be wound back, so why not in football? If a 'keeper takes too much time over a goal kick (when the clock wouldn't normally be stopped) the referee should stop play, book the goalie and add back 5, 10, 20 seconds to the clock.
Referees should also feel they're empowered to do this.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Why all the fuss about time wasting. When you're one up in injury time, seeing your team taking an age to do anything, and seeing the opposition fans going mental with fury, especially if you're away from home, is one of the great joys of football. And when the opposition are doing it to you, you are furious.
Isn't that why we go to football, for joy and fury. Highs and lows of emotion? It's why I go. I want to come away ecstatic or gutted, not some bland in-between feeling of justice having being done or the outcome being fair.
I go to football to watch a game of football, not a poor team try to get a result by standing around wasting time.Isn't that why we go to football, for joy and fury. Highs and lows of emotion? It's why I go. I want to come away ecstatic or gutted, not some bland in-between feeling of justice having being done or the outcome being fair.
But then I saw Nottingham Forest in League One, when we were the prize scalp and a point at the City Ground was most club's aim. So we'd regularly see teams waste time from minute one, not just the last 5 minutes.
I see where you're coming from Hackney but in attempt to clear the game of time wasting, I suspect you'd be making it much worse to watch as games stretched to 3 hours which would drag the quality down too.
Whatever actions you don't include in the clock stopping will be the ones exploited.
I think Twig has nailed it, time wasting is brilliant if executed well, especially when it's you that is winning. It's why football is the best sport in the world, all the grey areas make it worth talking about.
In your case above Hackney, you're just completely disrespecting the small clubs and their fans. So what if they show up looking for a point and out to destroy the game? To them that will feel like a win and talking as a Stevenage fan, I can assure you when you show up at some ex big club's ground with our army of under 3 figures and we get a result by any means, I couldn't care how we went about it.
Whatever actions you don't include in the clock stopping will be the ones exploited.
I think Twig has nailed it, time wasting is brilliant if executed well, especially when it's you that is winning. It's why football is the best sport in the world, all the grey areas make it worth talking about.
In your case above Hackney, you're just completely disrespecting the small clubs and their fans. So what if they show up looking for a point and out to destroy the game? To them that will feel like a win and talking as a Stevenage fan, I can assure you when you show up at some ex big club's ground with our army of under 3 figures and we get a result by any means, I couldn't care how we went about it.
Edited by Boydie88 on Tuesday 7th February 13:08
Boydie88 said:
In your case above Hackney, you're just completely disrespecting the small clubs and their fans. So what if they show up looking for a point and out to destroy the game? To them that will feel like a win and talking as a Stevenage fan, I can assure you when you show up at some ex big club's ground with our army of under 3 figures and we get a result by any means, I couldn't care how we went about it.
Exactly right. I remember, when we (Chelsea) were rubbish, going 1 up after 90 seconds at Old Trafford. Late 70s I think. Then hanging on to that for 88 and a half minutes by all means possible, including dreadful timewasting. Their fans, all 60K of them, were incandescent with rage. What a fEdited by Boydie88 on Tuesday 7th February 13:08
king great day out that was. 
Gassing Station | Football | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff