Doping in Football

[vonuber]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/nov/...

So Arsene believes it occurs. Are we naive to think football is clean? Will we ever find out? Is there a scandal waiting to erupt like in Athletics?

[kentlad]

He's one of the best managers in world football and is at one of Europe's biggest clubs. If he is brave enough to stand on his own and claim that doping is happening in top flight football, then we should all listen pretty carefully & the FA should be looking into it. It's not often someone in such a high profile position makes a claim like that and generally they aren't made unfounded. If what he's claiming is true & we want doping to be eradicated from football then on the spot testing has to become a regular occurrence. I.e. multiple times a year on individual players. Who will pay for it though? I'd imagine testing the 100+ players at any given top flight club (I'm including reserves & youth players over 16 here) would be quite costly to do once a week or even once a month. In an ideal world no-one could get away with it due to proper testing. But this isn't an ideal world & someone will always find a way to get around the rules.

[epom]

Any sport that relies so heavily on money to a) be successful b) the new involved outweighs the risks, you can be almost certain will have doping involved. Why would soccer be any different ?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

epom said:

Any sport that relies so heavily on money to a) be successful b) the new involved outweighs the risks, you can be almost certain will have doping involved. Why would soccer be any different ?

Because football isn't like athletics or cycling, where it's 95% power and strength and 5% skill. Where's the skill in the 100m? I can run in a straight line just as well as Ussain Bolt, but just slower. Football is about technique and ability. A mediocre footballer who takes performance enhancing drugs will be a faster mediocre footballer.

I was a pub player. I was never going to be any more, even if I had access to the most sophisticated drugs regime.

So I doubt it's widespread.

[WD39]

We have had some intellectuals in football and a few dopes, nothing new there.

[mcelliott]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

epom said:

Any sport that relies so heavily on money to a) be successful b) the new involved outweighs the risks, you can be almost certain will have doping involved. Why would soccer be any different ?

Because football isn't like athletics or cycling, where it's 95% power and strength and 5% skill. Where's the skill in the 100m? I can run in a straight line just as well as Ussain Bolt, but just slower. Football is about technique and ability. A mediocre footballer who takes performance enhancing drugs will be a faster mediocre footballer.

I was a pub player. I was never going to be any more, even if I had access to the most sophisticated drugs regime.

So I doubt it's widespread.

Tennis has got quite a big problem with doping, so your argument doesn't necessarily apply. Loads of rumours about Real Madrid and Barcelona on doping programs throughout the years, drug testing in football very very lax. Drugs aren't always used for performance enhancers either - recovery from injury, being able to train harder, that sort of thing.

[Black can man]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Because football isn't like athletics or cycling, where it's 95% power and strength and 5% skill. Where's the skill in the 100m? I can run in a straight line just as well as Ussain Bolt, but just slower. Football is about technique and ability. A mediocre footballer who takes performance enhancing drugs will be a faster mediocre footballer.

I was a pub player. I was never going to be any more, even if I had access to the most sophisticated drugs regime.

So I doubt it's widespread.

I take it you don't cycle too much Twig !

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...
82 KMPH ! fk me 5% skill your having a laugh aren't you surely.

[Bradgate]

I don't know about football, but drug taking is very prevalent in rugby union. There is huge emphasis on size, strength and power in the professional game.

Players are told to 'go away and get big' during the summer off-season. Everyone knows what this means. As long as they are clean, and several kilos of muscle heavier, by the time they report back for pre-season, no-one asks questions about how the bulking-up was achieved.

Source : 2 friends-of-a-friend played professional rugby for a Premiership club. Both represented England and retired recently.

[The jiffle king]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Because football isn't like athletics or cycling, where it's 95% power and strength and 5% skill. Where's the skill in the 100m? I can run in a straight line just as well as Usain Bolt, but just slower.

There is a lot of skill in the 100m. The start is very technical as are the first 30 metres as you get into stride. Then the form to keep at optimum speed is also technical. Sure it's about talent, but then again, so is football.

[Ruskie]

Bradgate said:

I don't know about football, but drug taking is very prevalent in rugby union. There is huge emphasis on size, strength and power in the professional game.

Players are told to 'go away and get big' during the summer off-season. Everyone knows what this means. As long as they are clean, and several kilos of muscle heavier, by the time they report back for pre-season, no-one asks questions about how the bulking-up was achieved.

Source : 2 friends-of-a-friend played professional rugby for a Premiership club. Both represented England and retired recently.

Not exactly solid reference material is it?

[Ruskie]

In 8 years as a professional, one player I played with tested positive for an illegal substance. That was taken in error, allegedly. I never saw anyone take anything, I was never offered anything and as far as I'm concerned the sport was/is clean.

As already pointed out the risk/reward isn't the same with football. It's not going to make your touch better or your ability to pick a pass.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Black can man said:

I take it you don't cycle too much Twig !

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...
82 KMPH ! fk me 5% skill your having a laugh aren't you surely.

I cycle a lot actually. If I took drugs I could be a better cyclist. But drugs won't make me a better footballer.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

The jiffle king said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Because football isn't like athletics or cycling, where it's 95% power and strength and 5% skill. Where's the skill in the 100m? I can run in a straight line just as well as Usain Bolt, but just slower.

There is a lot of skill in the 100m. The start is very technical as are the first 30 metres as you get into stride. Then the form to keep at optimum speed is also technical. Sure it's about talent, but then again, so is football.

There's a load of top footballers that could run 100m in a pretty decent time. With drugs, one or 2 of the very quickest players might even be around 10 seconds. But Ussain Bolt would never be able to play football at a decent level, regardless of drugs.

[epom]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

epom said:

Any sport that relies so heavily on money to a) be successful b) the new involved outweighs the risks, you can be almost certain will have doping involved. Why would soccer be any different ?

Because football isn't like athletics or cycling, where it's 95% power and strength and 5% skill. Where's the skill in the 100m? I can run in a straight line just as well as Ussain Bolt, but just slower. Football is about technique and ability. A mediocre footballer who takes performance enhancing drugs will be a faster mediocre footballer.

I was a pub player. I was never going to be any more, even if I had access to the most sophisticated drugs regime.

So I doubt it's widespread.

I stand corrected, football is clean people.

[vonuber]

What amazes me is the stamina of some of these teams when combined with their pressing game, and the ability to turn that in week after week.
I would not be surprised in the slightest if there is doping -remember all the samples that got destroyed in the Fuentes case, rumour had it there was a lot of Spanish footballers in those samples.

Didn't it come out recently that one of the German World Cup teams in the 50's was on Amphetamines?

[Gargamel]

People that are saying it isn't happening are effectively calling Arsene Wenger a liar.... I wonder who knows what goes on in top level football. Arsenal Wenger or some bloke on the Internet?

[vonuber]

Good follow up here:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/nov/...

[Ruskie]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I agree with your point for the most part. However sports science has come on leaps and bounds at the same time. Diet, supplements, testing, strength, speed specific, position specific and so on have come to the forefront. I was involved in some of the original stuff being introduced 10-12 years ago. Fluid intake, video analysis, supplements, individual programs for the gym, heart rate monitors in training and friendlies so the tempo of training matched with players in matches.

Opta provide each club with data for their analysis so they can see every inch of every players game in minute detail. The truth is are less bad players making a good living now. Certainly it's easier to get found out at the top level.

[JuniorD]

Spanish football doped to the max. Look up Operaction Puerto.

Anyone saying doping won't assist a footballer...nonsense bordering on the imbecilic. When your fitness and stamina go through the roof you will have so much additional capacity that everything else can improve, even your touch and time on the ball. Footballers get substitued when they are tired. Why? Because their performance drops. So if you can do more without getting tired... and can recover quickly to do it day in day out...doesn't take a genius.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

epom said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

epom said:

Any sport that relies so heavily on money to a) be successful b) the new involved outweighs the risks, you can be almost certain will have doping involved. Why would soccer be any different ?

Because football isn't like athletics or cycling, where it's 95% power and strength and 5% skill. Where's the skill in the 100m? I can run in a straight line just as well as Ussain Bolt, but just slower. Football is about technique and ability. A mediocre footballer who takes performance enhancing drugs will be a faster mediocre footballer.

I was a pub player. I was never going to be any more, even if I had access to the most sophisticated drugs regime.

So I doubt it's widespread.

I stand corrected, football is clean people.

Not sure I said that. I said I doubt it's widespread, which doesn't equate to clean.

Probably a fair amount of use of recreational drugs