The Official England Thread- The Team We All Support [Vol 3]

[Blackpuddin]

Yazza54 said:

mickk said:

Reading through this thread this morning, can someone explain why there's so much hate for Jordan Pickford?

He showed too much passion performing a routine save apparently. I kinda get it, but he was probably just relieved. It must be soul destroying for him to watch his team score a goal then sit back and let them come at him every god damn game.

He doesn't help by behaving like a housefly on speed while yelling at the team to slow the game down, thereby inviting the opposition to come onto England.

[Blackpuddin]

cerb4.5lee said:

DirktheDaring said:

We lack arrogance and confidence, successful teams have plenty of this.

For instance the Germans have an arrogance about them, they feel they have won a match before they even leave the dressing room.

I've always thought exactly this as well. Most other countries seem to have a completely different mentality to us as you say.

I always liked Stephen Hendry at snooker for that too, and he always believed that he was better than everyone else, and that mindset made him very successful.

Many of England's individual team members have the 'overdog' attitude but they seem to struggle when it comes to extending that mentality into a team scenario.
Also noticed Foden angrily waving his arms about when he ran into a space but wasn't given the ball. Good to have that sort of intensity but wonder whether all his team mates appreciate that attitude.

[cerb4.5lee]

Blackpuddin said:

cerb4.5lee said:

DirktheDaring said:

We lack arrogance and confidence, successful teams have plenty of this.

For instance the Germans have an arrogance about them, they feel they have won a match before they even leave the dressing room.

I've always thought exactly this as well. Most other countries seem to have a completely different mentality to us as you say.

I always liked Stephen Hendry at snooker for that too, and he always believed that he was better than everyone else, and that mindset made him very successful.

Many of England's individual team members have the 'overdog' attitude but they seem to struggle when it comes to extending that mentality into a team scenario.
Also noticed Foden angrily waving his arms about when he ran into a space but wasn't given the ball. Good to have that sort of intensity but wonder whether all his team mates appreciate that attitude.

Foden really frustrated me yesterday to be honest, because he is generally mostly brilliant when he plays for City. But for England he looks like he's never seen a football before though, and you can throw a lot of the other players into that bracket too.

England are a team of individuals currently and it does my head in, someone else mentioned it on the thread, but we've gone back to the Gerrard/Lampard era I reckon, where players play for themselves rather than for the team if you know what I mean.

[TurboPower]

mickk said:

So the guy shows passion and he gets abuse? Weird people about.

Have you watched the clip? His reaction was embarrassing, we were playing Slovakia for FFS.
I also thought Bellingham's celebration was a bit OTT, as if he's scored the winner in the final.
We've stank the place out with our performances in this competition so far, and we've not played any decent team yet.

[48k]

Jordie Barretts sock said:

monthou said:

Jordie Barretts sock said:

What is can't fathom, is England are STILL favourites for the tournament.

I doubt they're favourites if you're putting a bet on in Madrid. Or Frankfurt. Or Paris. Or Geneva for that matter.

That is a very good point I hadn't considered.

No, as discussed several times in this thread already - it doesn't matter where in the world you are putting the bet on. The market is the market. If you go and look at German betting sites or French betting sites, etc you will see England have the shortest odds, because they are one of the highest ranking teams left in the tournament, and on the "easy" side of the draw.
If each country's bookmakers had their own country as favourites it would be really easy to make money through arbitraging the different rates.

[mattyn1]

Jasey_ said:

epom said:

Anyone prepared to give the manager the benefit of the doubt yet ? He’s got you this far, handy game next…
It’s a results based business.

No

I was on the fence for a moment but then subbing HK and JB knowing we were one slip away from penalties baffled me. For me that disregard for risk was a sackable decision.

[cerb4.5lee]

mattyn1 said:

Jasey_ said:

epom said:

Anyone prepared to give the manager the benefit of the doubt yet ? He’s got you this far, handy game next…
It’s a results based business.

No

I was on the fence for a moment but then subbing HK and JB knowing we were one slip away from penalties baffled me. For me that disregard for risk was a sackable decision.

It is a double edged sword really I think. Obviously I'd like England to win games and progress, but the way that they play is so difficult/frustrating to watch though. England just don't entertain you like other countries do, and in some ways I would've been happy for them to have got knocked out, because arguably they don't deserve to be still in it for me.

[Byker28i]

I didn't understand why the team selection had been proven rubbish in the last three games, so lets go the same again.

Hum it's not working, 1 goal down and no attempts to mention - no change at half time.

Took Foden and Kane off. Foden was delivering great dead balls into the box, when he swapped to taking them we had some threat. Kane can hold the ball up when cleared, and of course is a necessity if we were taken to penalties.

Didn't understand the selection/substitutions/timings at all...

Can anyone check Southgate hasn't bet his house on England losing

[Radec]

Gareth knows

[Andy_Fandango]

This video was made and released just before the game...

https://youtu.be/E1MflvtkOcg?si=gp4rrycapfSwdT4E

Nearly, so nearly spot on.

Edited by Andy_Fandango on Monday 1st July 10:58

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Interesting stat.

Knockout wins in tournaments, 1968 - Southgate......6 (Paraguay, Belgium, Cameroon, Spain, Denmark, Equador)
Knockout wins in tournaments, under Southgate.......7 (Colombia, Sweden, Germany, Ukraine, Denmark, Senegal, Slovakia)

[type-r]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Interesting stat.

Here's another: Just 3 more turgid wins.

[mickk]

TurboPower said:

mickk said:

So the guy shows passion and he gets abuse? Weird people about.

Have you watched the clip? His reaction was embarrassing, we were playing Slovakia for FFS.
I also thought Bellingham's celebration was a bit OTT, as if he's scored the winner in the final.
We've stank the place out with our performances in this competition so far, and we've not played any decent team yet.

I don't give a flying fk how they react to scoring a goal or saving a goal, I just thought the reaction from some on here a little strange.

Never mind carry on.

[Dave200]

mickk said:

TurboPower said:

mickk said:

So the guy shows passion and he gets abuse? Weird people about.

Have you watched the clip? His reaction was embarrassing, we were playing Slovakia for FFS.
I also thought Bellingham's celebration was a bit OTT, as if he's scored the winner in the final.
We've stank the place out with our performances in this competition so far, and we've not played any decent team yet.

I don't give a flying fk how they react to scoring a goal or saving a goal, I just thought the reaction from some on here a little strange.

Never mind carry on.

Celebrating scoring a goal that kept England in the tournament is now apparently a bad thing.

Some England fans get the team and results they deserve.

[75Black]

ajprice said:

I had Slovakia in the work sweep, I was never expecting anything from it, but this morning could have been awkward .

Same here

[Chicken Chaser]

I don't care about the celebrations, Bellingham realised he was ste all game, came up with one moment of brilliance and wants to be recognised as the guy who saved us, fine. Pickford is an odd character anyway but he's from Sunderland and plays for Everton and is also a keeper so it's kind of expected.

Can't wait for the same display and reaction next week, win or lose. Gareth isn't changing things that's clear to see.

[sugerbear]

Byker28i said:

I didn't understand why the team selection had been proven rubbish in the last three games, so lets go the same again.

Hum it's not working, 1 goal down and no attempts to mention - no change at half time.

Took Foden and Kane off. Foden was delivering great dead balls into the box, when he swapped to taking them we had some threat. Kane can hold the ball up when cleared, and of course is a necessity if we were taken to penalties.

Didn't understand the selection/substitutions/timings at all...

Can anyone check Southgate hasn't bet his house on England losing

simple things, you either play Foden or Bellingham. fourfourtwo on youtube did a great explaination of why England did terribly in the past few games, Foden and Bellingham are playing in the same position. Easy to mark and breakdown. Which then makes Kane looks bad as he doesn't get any service and ends up dropping deep. Take Foden (or Belingham) off and the team looks more balanced. Add Gordon on the wing and it looks even better. Bring Cole into support Kane and things continue to improve.

Everyone can see if apart from Southgate.

2 attempts on target for the whole game is dreadful.


I

[TEKNOPUG]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Interesting stat.

Knockout wins in tournaments, 1968 - Southgate......6 (Paraguay, Belgium, Cameroon, Spain, Denmark, Equador)
Knockout wins in tournaments, under Southgate.......7 (Colombia, Sweden, Germany, Ukraine, Denmark, Senegal, Slovakia)

Different size tournaments - more teams = weaker teams, easier to win/qualify from groups & more knockout games.

Also different tournament formats = different number of knockout games.

World Cup
70-78 only 16 teams
82-98 only 24 teams

Euro
68-76 only 4 teams
80-92 only 8 teams
96-12 only 16 teams
16-34 24 teams

So had all the previous Euros been 24 teams and all the previous WCs been 32 teams, do you think England would have won more knockout games?


Knockout defeats in tournaments, 1968 - Southgate......13 (West Germany, Argentina, Germany, Argentina, Brazil, Portugal, Germany, Yugoslavia, Germany, Portugal, Italy, Iceland, Italy)

Knockout defeats in tournaments, under Southgate.......7 (Croatia, France, Italy)

[Minglar]

It’s just so incredibly frustrating to watch Southgate’s England team play. I’ve watched three of the four matches so far at this tournament (missed the third group match against Slovenia) and I just cannot see us winning it playing the way he does. As for last night, I feel a little torn. I think we were incredibly lucky to get through and I do feel some sympathy for Slovakia who set up as 4-3-3 and clearly had no regard for our reputation as a “powerhouse of world football and tournament favourites” The writing was on the wall after just five minutes with the void between the two teams glaringly obvious. The only surprise was we didn’t go behind sooner imho. Others have commented on the Gerrard/Lampard era and I do see similarities, but I think it’s more a result of Southgate’s stubborn defensive approach rather than the players lack of ability. Maybe they are surrounded by better players at club level which perhaps makes them look better than they really are, or maybe Southgate needs to set up differently from the off, show some attacking guile and kill off teams earlier rather than suffer the usual scramble we keep on witnessing. I strongly suspect he won’t change too much for the Switzerland game as his technical genius has got us to another quarter final , but it is a results business and while he can keep grinding out turgid wins he won’t change. But sooner or later we will get outplayed and outthought, and I guess whatever the outcome at this tournament, this will probably be the end of the Southgate era. But one cannot argue with his record, despite his tactics. And we all know whoever is chosen to replace him will more than likely be a similar type of manager. BRM.

[extraT]

Will someone tell Pickford to stay on his line. I’ve noticed a few times he has a tendency to wander around / stray out of the box. That lob would have been embarrassing, if it had gone in.