The Official England Thread- The Team We All Support [Vol 3]
Discussion
coldel said:
Came on here to post the same thing
Its not just the majority of the England fans that are bewildered (appreciate there are a small handful who are just like hey we are ok we finished top whats the problem) but pretty much everyone is unified in the stupidity of some of what Southgate is doing.
The problems seem to stem from Foden, given he is missing training it should be a good excuse to drop Foden, put in someone alongside Rice who plays that role, push Bellingham on to play a number 10 and put an actual bonafide left winger out on the left wing. We could do a good job rotating Saka and Palmer, Saka so far in the tournament has faded in all games second half.
Certainly Foden should not start on Sunday. Its not just the majority of the England fans that are bewildered (appreciate there are a small handful who are just like hey we are ok we finished top whats the problem) but pretty much everyone is unified in the stupidity of some of what Southgate is doing.
The problems seem to stem from Foden, given he is missing training it should be a good excuse to drop Foden, put in someone alongside Rice who plays that role, push Bellingham on to play a number 10 and put an actual bonafide left winger out on the left wing. We could do a good job rotating Saka and Palmer, Saka so far in the tournament has faded in all games second half.
He has had 3 days away from training due to the birth of his child. The emotional impact will no doubt take some toll as well so put him on the bench and let him get back into football mode gently.
272BHP said:
Certainly Foden should not start on Sunday.
He has had 3 days away from training due to the birth of his child. The emotional impact will no doubt take some toll as well so put him on the bench and let him get back into football mode gently.
Football mode hasn't worked for him.He has had 3 days away from training due to the birth of his child. The emotional impact will no doubt take some toll as well so put him on the bench and let him get back into football mode gently.
Maybe the distraction will help and he'll play more naturally.
Interesting article in the Independent about the England football team and why they might be slightly less motivated when playing for England than they are for their clubs. You may or may not agree but just blaming Southgate for players being poor is too simple.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gareth-southg...
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gareth-southg...
Flip Martian said:
Interesting article in the Independent about the England football team and why they might be slightly less motivated when playing for England than they are for their clubs. You may or may not agree but just blaming Southgate for players being poor is too simple.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gareth-southg...
It's rubbish. 2-3rds of EPL players are foreign. So if the issue is that EPL players don't care about playing for their national team because of the riches they acquire from their clubs, it would be affecting most of the teams at the tournament. Secondly, it is Southgate's choice to keep selecting unmotivated players. 26 man squad yet he keeps picking the same players every game.https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gareth-southg...
Flip Martian said:
Interesting article in the Independent about the England football team and why they might be slightly less motivated when playing for England than they are for their clubs. You may or may not agree but just blaming Southgate for players being poor is too simple.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gareth-southg...
That article appears to be solely written by a women to have a dig at pay equality between womens and mens football, and she clearly knows the square root of sweet Felicity Arkwright about the situation, especially with regard to Ben White. Its his choice whether he wants to be considered or not, for whatever the reasons may still be. Silly mare. https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gareth-southg...
If there's one thing that Southgate has seemingly be able to do is generate a decent England team spirit in the camp, and they do actually want to wear the England shirt, as evidenced by the disappointment of those he left behind.
The issue is he's a crap coach.
Flip Martian said:
Interesting article in the Independent about the England football team and why they might be slightly less motivated when playing for England than they are for their clubs. You may or may not agree but just blaming Southgate for players being poor is too simple.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gareth-southg...
I’m not sure that they aren’t motivated enough to play better, perhaps more fearful of failure so are too cautious and go for simple sideways and backwards passes rather than attempting something different and losing possession. My amateurish view is that the hostility of the media is partly to blame for this mindset, reporters are quick to lay blame as the ridicule of Steve McLaren and Graham Taylor showed. https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gareth-southg...
The English style of play seems to be a sort of pastiche of Spanish possession based football only without the final pass to someone to score.
In the cold light of day, I think we can apportion the majority of the failings on GS for the the ultra-cautious set-up manifesting in the obsession with two holding-midfielders. He is also, as already discussed, slow to notice what isn't working and make changes quick enough to turn it around, and fixated with playing the "best" players regardless of whether they seem gassed or out of form.
However, I don't also believe he is instructing the players not to make runs or not to play one-twos. As boredom set in I found myself stopping watching the ball-player and started following the players off the ball and around the TV screen...and was surprised to see the likes of Rice and Bellingham, Kane and Foden just sort of strolling around, or at best running into a space occupied by a Slovenian player.
No-one was busting a gut - it's a cliche, but once they cross the white line it's mostly on the players. Southgate can't play the one-twos for them.
However, I don't also believe he is instructing the players not to make runs or not to play one-twos. As boredom set in I found myself stopping watching the ball-player and started following the players off the ball and around the TV screen...and was surprised to see the likes of Rice and Bellingham, Kane and Foden just sort of strolling around, or at best running into a space occupied by a Slovenian player.
No-one was busting a gut - it's a cliche, but once they cross the white line it's mostly on the players. Southgate can't play the one-twos for them.
Legend83 said:
In the cold light of day, I think we can apportion the majority of the failings on GS for the the ultra-cautious set-up manifesting in the obsession with two holding-midfielders. He is also, as already discussed, slow to notice what isn't working and make changes quick enough to turn it around, and fixated with playing the "best" players regardless of whether they seem gassed or out of form.
However, I don't also believe he is instructing the players not to make runs or not to play one-twos. As boredom set in I found myself stopping watching the ball-player and started following the players off the ball and around the TV screen...and was surprised to see the likes of Rice and Bellingham, Kane and Foden just sort of strolling around, or at best running into a space occupied by a Slovenian player.
No-one was busting a gut - it's a cliche, but once they cross the white line it's mostly on the players. Southgate can't play the one-twos for them.
Agreed - can anyone remember a game where Southgate made a deliberate and positive in-game tactical switch of formation, to counter the opposition threat? I certainly can’t, whereas you can be sure an astute manager who know what they’re doing would.However, I don't also believe he is instructing the players not to make runs or not to play one-twos. As boredom set in I found myself stopping watching the ball-player and started following the players off the ball and around the TV screen...and was surprised to see the likes of Rice and Bellingham, Kane and Foden just sort of strolling around, or at best running into a space occupied by a Slovenian player.
No-one was busting a gut - it's a cliche, but once they cross the white line it's mostly on the players. Southgate can't play the one-twos for them.
He only replaces like for like, usually far too late in a game to have any impact, which then causes the frustration as demonstrated by the fans. Surely the players must question it too, between themselves?!
Flip Martian said:
Interesting article in the Independent about the England football team and why they might be slightly less motivated when playing for England than they are for their clubs. You may or may not agree but just blaming Southgate for players being poor is too simple.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gareth-southg...
Laughable.https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gareth-southg...
"I simply don’t believe he cares enough about playing for his country. He is a product of this generation of spoilt brat, overpaid Premier League players who only care about one thing: the club that has brought them fame, fortune and a lifestyle beyond most of our wildest dreams."
Money has never been a driving factor when playing for the national team, atleast not in our lifetimes.
There's a number of factors but she's well off the mark and it's quite an unfounded slur on the players. Time is almost certainly more precious than money for them once they've got past the first £10m.
Southgate is far and away the biggest issue. The others being England players are overhyped probably due to the exposure of the PL which doesn't stomp all over the other leagues in Europe.
There's also the fact that every team is now professional and has a team of experts controlling all the controllables. There really isn't a huge gulf between the best team at the Euros and the one in 10th or 20th.
ChocolateFrog said:
If I was Ben White I'd be having a chat with my lawyer to see if there's a case for defamation.
There's no evidence that he's not there because of money.
Isn't Ben White the lad who says he doesn't like football?There's no evidence that he's not there because of money.
Never watches it, doesn't support a team and just sees it as a job?
Haven't really followed his career but he seems a decent player and there's no harm in just doing your job. If he doesn't really fancy playing for England it's better to say "no thanks" than turn up and go through the motions.
TownIdiot said:
ChocolateFrog said:
If I was Ben White I'd be having a chat with my lawyer to see if there's a case for defamation.
There's no evidence that he's not there because of money.
Isn't Ben White the lad who says he doesn't like football?There's no evidence that he's not there because of money.
Never watches it, doesn't support a team and just sees it as a job?
Haven't really followed his career but he seems a decent player and there's no harm in just doing your job. If he doesn't really fancy playing for England it's better to say "no thanks" than turn up and go through the motions.
There's also all the negative media and fan attention that must be draining.
ChocolateFrog said:
TownIdiot said:
ChocolateFrog said:
If I was Ben White I'd be having a chat with my lawyer to see if there's a case for defamation.
There's no evidence that he's not there because of money.
Isn't Ben White the lad who says he doesn't like football?There's no evidence that he's not there because of money.
Never watches it, doesn't support a team and just sees it as a job?
Haven't really followed his career but he seems a decent player and there's no harm in just doing your job. If he doesn't really fancy playing for England it's better to say "no thanks" than turn up and go through the motions.
There's also all the negative media and fan attention that must be draining.
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