The Official England Thread- The Team We All Support [Vol 3]
Discussion
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Well that puts him in the top echelon of England managers, because all be one of his predecessors never won anything, most never got as close as Southgate, and were hopeless at the off the pitch stuff.
And we are still in this tournament. Most people fawn over Italia 90 and what a great job Bobby Robson did, but the first 4 games were a carbon copy of this tournament. Crap in the group, finished top with 5 points, 2 draws and a win, and we were by and large f
king hopeless. Scraped thru the round of 16 with a last gasp saving goal against Belgium where we were 2nd best during the actual game.
We then were rubbish in the QF v Cameroon and got out of jail late on thanks to two pens. We lost the semi to Germany where we were the better side and 34 year on everyone thinks it was a high point of English football!!!
Quite right, thank you for refreshing my memory.And we are still in this tournament. Most people fawn over Italia 90 and what a great job Bobby Robson did, but the first 4 games were a carbon copy of this tournament. Crap in the group, finished top with 5 points, 2 draws and a win, and we were by and large f
king hopeless. Scraped thru the round of 16 with a last gasp saving goal against Belgium where we were 2nd best during the actual game. We then were rubbish in the QF v Cameroon and got out of jail late on thanks to two pens. We lost the semi to Germany where we were the better side and 34 year on everyone thinks it was a high point of English football!!!
Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Tuesday 2nd July 16:40
We are where we are, the way we've played we certainly don't deserve to be there.
We'll probably win it now
JNW1 said:
Given our indifferent performances so far I thought our odds must have gone out and therefore it might be worth putting a few quid on us to win the tournament; however, slightly to my surprise, it appears we're still the favourites on Betfair!
We are on the "easy" side of the draw, playing the Swiss and the winner of Austria / Turkey to get to the final, where we would meet one of the Dutch, Portugal, Spain or FranceNot that either game will be easy for us, and we don't beat any of those 4 (IMO). Portugal possibly but doubt they'll get through that lot
Southgate is the luckiest manager I know.
I see he's vindicated himself for not subbing Bellingham and Kane off. Knew he would. Is he right? More of the same on Saturday?
For me: Shaw's ready apparently, does he come straight in? With "Trent" as RB, Shaw LB and Gordon on the left wing we might actually have a bit of width. Can Bellingham play deeper and Foden behind Kane? Can't drop (rest!) Kane else I'd have him as an impact sub and to be in the pitch for penalties. Palmer on for Saka (RW) if Sakas struggling, and again, he'll be on the pitch for penalties (if required)
Standing by for an unchanged lineup apart from LCB where Guehi is suspended
Who gets the nod, Konsa or Dunc?johnboy1975 said:
<clip> For me: Shaw's ready apparently, does he come straight in? With "Trent" as RB, Shaw LB and Gordon on the left wing we might actually have a bit of width. Can Bellingham play deeper and Foden behind Kane? Can't drop (rest!) Kane else I'd have him as an impact sub and to be in the pitch for penalties. Palmer on for Saka (RW) if Sakas struggling, and again, he'll be on the pitch for penalties (if required) ...
I'd go with most of that but I'd play sub Bowen on for Saka, he would add some grit and determination... Adam. said:
Dave200 said:
Of England's "abundance of riches" you've got:
- Rice, not even the best player at his club on current form
- Foden, I'm struggling to recall a single decent England performance
- Kane, isn't playing well and is barely managing the basics
- Bellingham, looks absolutely knackered
thats a strange argument used to support GS- Rice, not even the best player at his club on current form
- Foden, I'm struggling to recall a single decent England performance
- Kane, isn't playing well and is barely managing the basics
- Bellingham, looks absolutely knackered
Rice was excellent for Arsenal, and has been solid so far
Foden was brilliant at City, GS is ruining him by playing him in the wrong place
Kane was excellent for Bayern, GS is ruining him, with his negative tactics leaving him isolated
Bellingham is knackered because GS should be rotating him with Foden
TEKNOPUG said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Well that puts him in the top echelon of England managers, because all be one of his predecessors never won anything, most never got as close as Southgate, and were hopeless at the off the pitch stuff.
He's still failed at every tournament. Being slightly less rubbish than other rubbish people doesn't mean he's any good. All the other managers had previously been successful in club management, so may be the issue was with the players and all the off-field issues?Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Tuesday 2nd July 16:40
GS may have fixed the off-field issues but he's never demonstrated he's any good with the onfield matters, at any time during his career.
Do you want him at Chelsea? Do you think any Prem club will be clamouring for his services?
We've had some great results under Southgate. A win in a tournament v Germany, for the first time since 1966. A win away to Italy. A very comfortable victory v Sweden in a WC QF, a team we've always struggled to deal with. Coming from behind to win a tournament semi, a first in our history. Being ahead in a WC semi, for the first time since 1966. We've scored 6 goals in WC group matches twice. Previously unheard of. Winning a penalty shootout for only the 2nd time in our history.
My first recollection of watching England was the 1970 WC. This has been the best period in English football in my time of watching England.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
My first recollection of watching England was the 1970 WC. This has been the best period in English football in my time of watching England.
I started watching England around 1980’ish but what I don’t recall is the expectation at that time. English clubs, with predominantly English players and English managers, won the European Cup for six successive seasons, and neither Greenwood or Robson were new to the game - so what happened? Surely that was the time for England to have won something, and set up the future?I’m no Southgate apologist, but I do wonder why England just can’t get it right at National team level, and why others are able to consistently be a threat - Germany, France, Spain, Italy, plus Portugal and Netherlands. I don’t think it’s just a playing-with-arrogance thing, there has to be something more fundamental wrong for so much talent to be continually squandered.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
TEKNOPUG said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Well that puts him in the top echelon of England managers, because all be one of his predecessors never won anything, most never got as close as Southgate, and were hopeless at the off the pitch stuff.
He's still failed at every tournament. Being slightly less rubbish than other rubbish people doesn't mean he's any good. All the other managers had previously been successful in club management, so may be the issue was with the players and all the off-field issues?Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Tuesday 2nd July 16:40
GS may have fixed the off-field issues but he's never demonstrated he's any good with the onfield matters, at any time during his career.
Do you want him at Chelsea? Do you think any Prem club will be clamouring for his services?
We've had some great results under Southgate. A win in a tournament v Germany, for the first time since 1966. A win away to Italy. A very comfortable victory v Sweden in a WC QF, a team we've always struggled to deal with. Coming from behind to win a tournament semi, a first in our history. Being ahead in a WC semi, for the first time since 1966. We've scored 6 goals in WC group matches twice. Previously unheard of. Winning a penalty shootout for only the 2nd time in our history.
My first recollection of watching England was the 1970 WC. This has been the best period in English football in my time of watching England.
Southgate has very little tactical understanding, very little managerial impact during half time team talks in shaping 2nd half performances, very little ability to change a game tactically during the game, very little concept of how to utilise a squad/use subs to make a difference.
Historical stats in years to come will look back and (if we beat the the Swiss) say another semi-final in euro 2024, weren’t we amazing, we topped the group etc. - the reality however is before us now and stats paint a different picture.
Absolutely dire performances, last minute goal saving us, and being on a ridiculously easy side of the knockout draw mask the reality.
PomBstard said:
I’m no Southgate apologist, but I do wonder why England just can’t get it right at National team level, and why others are able to consistently be a threat - Germany, France, Spain, Italy, plus Portugal and Netherlands. I don’t think it’s just a playing-with-arrogance thing, there has to be something more fundamental wrong for so much talent to be continually squandered.
Most recently the issue stems from a poor manager. Prior to that, the so called golden generation hated each other so there was never really any team spirit which gives you that extra 1% etc.NRG1976 said:
PomBstard said:
I’m no Southgate apologist, but I do wonder why England just can’t get it right at National team level, and why others are able to consistently be a threat - Germany, France, Spain, Italy, plus Portugal and Netherlands. I don’t think it’s just a playing-with-arrogance thing, there has to be something more fundamental wrong for so much talent to be continually squandered.
Most recently the issue stems from a poor manager. Prior to that, the so called golden generation hated each other so there was never really any team spirit which gives you that extra 1% etc.He stopped all that team hatred and got them to 'gel'
The problem now is (IMO) Southgate is s
te tactically and the gelled team don't want to play his negative tactics - despite the soundbitesjules_s said:
And I think thats where GS gets credit
He stopped all that team hatred and got them to 'gel'
The problem now is (IMO) Southgate is ste tactically and the gelled team don't want to play his negative tactics - despite the soundbites
Team hatred doesn't exist anymore. The players are playing at clubs for the money and bugger off if a better offer comes along. He stopped all that team hatred and got them to 'gel'
The problem now is (IMO) Southgate is s
te tactically and the gelled team don't want to play his negative tactics - despite the soundbitesThe days of players being wedded to their club and building hate for their club rivals are long gone.
jules_s said:
NRG1976 said:
PomBstard said:
I’m no Southgate apologist, but I do wonder why England just can’t get it right at National team level, and why others are able to consistently be a threat - Germany, France, Spain, Italy, plus Portugal and Netherlands. I don’t think it’s just a playing-with-arrogance thing, there has to be something more fundamental wrong for so much talent to be continually squandered.
Most recently the issue stems from a poor manager. Prior to that, the so called golden generation hated each other so there was never really any team spirit which gives you that extra 1% etc.He stopped all that team hatred and got them to 'gel'
The problem now is (IMO) Southgate is s
te tactically and the gelled team don't want to play his negative tactics - despite the soundbitesNRG1976 said:
jules_s said:
NRG1976 said:
PomBstard said:
I’m no Southgate apologist, but I do wonder why England just can’t get it right at National team level, and why others are able to consistently be a threat - Germany, France, Spain, Italy, plus Portugal and Netherlands. I don’t think it’s just a playing-with-arrogance thing, there has to be something more fundamental wrong for so much talent to be continually squandered.
Most recently the issue stems from a poor manager. Prior to that, the so called golden generation hated each other so there was never really any team spirit which gives you that extra 1% etc.He stopped all that team hatred and got them to 'gel'
The problem now is (IMO) Southgate is s
te tactically and the gelled team don't want to play his negative tactics - despite the soundbitesI’ll also add that the best players from countries other than England more often than not travel and work abroad.
Maybe they just have a more rounded view of international football because they’ve a wider experience of it.
I like Southgate. He was in the year above me at school, and the best asset the school produced, aside from Romesh Ranganathan and of course, Chico. He's "one of our own" and I will defend him to the hilt, but I'd have a lot more respect for him if his post match interviews were like this:
https://x.com/wolfden1877/status/18079004649244797...
https://x.com/wolfden1877/status/18079004649244797...
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