The Official England Thread- The Team We All Support [Vol 3]

[Jinx]

sugerbear said:

2 attempts on target for the whole game is dreadful.

Hit the post and Foden had it in the back of the net as well - but yes it was dreadful.

[Hants PHer]

Messrs. Wright, Neville and Keane are not my favourite pundits but all three were adamant that Southgate must, simply must make changes at half time last night.
He didn't, of course, leaving all three staggered, as was I. Ditto Dixon and Matterface I suspect.

It begs the question of whether Southgate is stubborn or incompetent, perhaps both. Personally, I'm going with both, meaning that for the Switzerland game we'll see the same formation and the same names (bar Konza for the suspended Guehi). The same Foden on the left, achieving nothing. Saka on the right, appearing to run through treacle. Kane dropping deep because he's so isolated up front, leaving us with no attacking threat. Both full backs unable or unwilling to overlap, further compressing a crowded pitch.

Actually, perhaps Southgate isn't stubborn/incompetent, perhaps he's cursed with some form of madness. After all, isn't that the definition when you keep repeating a failing option?

[coldel]

TEKNOPUG said:

Different size tournaments - more teams = weaker teams, easier to win/qualify from groups & more knockout games.

Also different tournament formats = different number of knockout games.

World Cup
70-78 only 16 teams
82-98 only 24 teams

Euro
68-76 only 4 teams
80-92 only 8 teams
96-12 only 16 teams
16-34 24 teams

So had all the previous Euros been 24 teams and all the previous WCs been 32 teams, do you think England would have won more knockout games?


Knockout defeats in tournaments, 1968 - Southgate......13 (West Germany, Argentina, Germany, Argentina, Brazil, Portugal, Germany, Yugoslavia, Germany, Portugal, Italy, Iceland, Italy)

Knockout defeats in tournaments, under Southgate.......7 (Croatia, France, Italy)

Yep the wonderful world of selective statistics, always add relevant context as stand alone numbers dont mean anything.

It is interesting as West Ham last season had this exact same issue. A team with some outstanding individual talent that looked each week like they were told to not try and score, play like strangers and constantly underachieve. West Ham fans got pillored for daring to suggest that there was a trend in the performances 'you are 8th in the league and in europe' they shouted. Of course then the performances started to turn into results and we only won 5 of 25 in 2024.

Seeing the same here, we know the team is set up wrong, the tactics aren't there, and we are winning the odd game through individual moments than a well put together plan well executed on the pitch. The players are winning these games, Southgate is just along for the ride.

I was thinking yesterday what a Klopp or Pep would do with this team and would they be set up like this, struggling along relying on hope rather than judgement to succeed...and it took a brief moment to conclude no.

[TEKNOPUG]

He's picked the best 11 players and once the game starts it's up to them. He's done his bit and if we lose, it's the player's fault for not performing. He's not the one kicking the ball, what more can he do? Amyyriiiiggght?!

[aeropilot]

Hants PHer said:

It begs the question of whether Southgate is stubborn or incompetent, perhaps both. Personally, I'm going with both, meaning that for the Switzerland game we'll see the same formation and the same names (bar Konza for the suspended Guehi). The same Foden on the left, achieving nothing. Saka on the right, appearing to run through treacle. Kane dropping deep because he's so isolated up front, leaving us with no attacking threat. Both full backs unable or unwilling to overlap, further compressing a crowded pitch.

Yep, more of the same except for the forced change of Guehi, almost certainly.

Southgate is a perplexing character as he's supposed to be so risk adverse, and cautious in setup, yet, he's taken a massive, and likely failed gamble on selecting Shaw for the squad. That's not what such a risk adverse and cautious person does, a cautious risk adverse person would have put a back up plan in place back in Feb/Mar........

So, I'm also going for incompetent as well as stubborn.

He's a fecking lucky and jammy stubborn fool though, it has to be said.

I missed the fun and games last night as had to go out, mid-way through 2nd half.

I actually feel really sorry for Slovakia. They were by far the better team on the night. Had that half way line lob of Pickford gone in, and made it 2-0, it really would have been all over. A last gasp moment of brilliance it seems turned their minds to jelly.

[sugerbear]

There aren't any top flight English managers managing in Europe and they also appear to be largely absent from the top of the Premier league as well. Speaks volumes about the state of top flight management/coaching in England and that sits with the way the FA are managed.

[Legend83]

We will miss Guehi, who was solid defensively again (Stones was at fault for the goal IMO) and got the flick-on assist for Bellingham's goal.

It goes without saying we were fecking lucky, and it could have been very different if Schranz had gone down when clipped by Guehi instead of tucking the goal away...

We were also fortunate either the ref calmed down or someone at UEFA had a word at half-time as Bellingham could easily have got a second yellow for that awful dive.

It has not been pretty, but hey we are into the quarters of the EUROS .

[aeropilot]

sugerbear said:

There aren't any top flight English managers managing in Europe and they also appear to be largely absent from the top of the Premier league as well. Speaks volumes about the state of top flight management/coaching in England and that sits with the way the FA are managed.

Yep, the FA are really still stuck in the 1970's in so many ways, but they will never change.

[272BHP]

I think maybe Southgate took Luke Shaw to coach and shadow a few of the other guys and teach them how to left back.

Can't say its working out too well.

[Muzzer79]

TurboPower said:

I also thought Bellingham's celebration was a bit OTT, as if he's scored the winner in the final.

He scored in the last minute of the game to keep his team in the competition. People talk about a lack of passion and pride, what better time is there to show it?

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

mattyn1 said:

I was on the fence for a moment but then subbing HK and JB knowing we were one slip away from penalties baffled me. For me that disregard for risk was a sackable decision.

Two ways to look at this

1. GS was reckless, taking off two potential penalty-takers when we're 'only' 2-1 up in extra time

2. GS is being positive - we're 2-1 up, rest two key players now - have them that little bit fresher and don't risk an injury/card for the QF next week.

Given the grief GS gets for negative play and approach, it's odd that people give him stick and use point-of-view number 1.

[Dingu]

TEKNOPUG said:

He's picked the best 11 players and once the game starts it's up to them. He's done his bit and if we lose, it's the player's fault for not performing. He's not the one kicking the ball, what more can he do? Amyyriiiiggght?!

Umm no.

He might or might not be picking the best 11 individuals, in a team game picking the best 11 as a team is the requirement however. Also having a game plan would be useful.

The real root cause of much of it is picking the wrong original squad too.

[Yazza54]

Id like the see the starting 11 be the same 11 that we had coming off at 15 mins of ET.

[Ridgemont]

redrabbit29 said:

I felt sorry for Slovakia

Nope. As Mrs Mont pointed out, they spent so much time rolling around trying to waste minutes especially in the second half that they generated 6 mins of extra time. Had they actually behaved then they would have locked in the win and England would be on the way home. Wasn’t impressed with the Slovakian sportsmanship last night as exemplified by Calzone’s behaviour towards Rice.

[Arrivalist]

Yazza54 said:

Id like the see the starting 11 be the same 11 that we had coming off at 15 mins of ET.

That or the 11 that finished the Slovenia game.

[Challo]

extraT said:

Will someone tell Pickford to stay on his line. I’ve noticed a few times he has a tendency to wander around / stray out of the box. That lob would have been embarrassing, if it had gone in.

Why should he stay on his line? The lob would have been embarrassing but keepers need to be able to come out of their boxes to clear throw balls etc.

[Byker28i]

sugerbear said:

Byker28i said:

I didn't understand why the team selection had been proven rubbish in the last three games, so lets go the same again.

Hum it's not working, 1 goal down and no attempts to mention - no change at half time.

Took Foden and Kane off. Foden was delivering great dead balls into the box, when he swapped to taking them we had some threat. Kane can hold the ball up when cleared, and of course is a necessity if we were taken to penalties.

Didn't understand the selection/substitutions/timings at all...

Can anyone check Southgate hasn't bet his house on England losing

simple things, you either play Foden or Bellingham. fourfourtwo on youtube did a great explaination of why England did terribly in the past few games, Foden and Bellingham are playing in the same position. Easy to mark and breakdown. Which then makes Kane looks bad as he doesn't get any service and ends up dropping deep. Take Foden (or Belingham) off and the team looks more balanced. Add Gordon on the wing and it looks even better. Bring Cole into support Kane and things continue to improve.

Everyone can see if apart from Southgate.

2 attempts on target for the whole game is dreadful.


I

Foden needs to be the middle, Belingham as sub

[Yazza54]

Arrivalist said:

Yazza54 said:

Id like the see the starting 11 be the same 11 that we had coming off at 15 mins of ET.

That or the 11 that finished the Slovenia game.

I wanna see more of Toney and eze, much more physical players that can win the ball in the air, something we've been very weak on

[Byker28i]

extraT said:

Will someone tell Pickford to stay on his line. I’ve noticed a few times he has a tendency to wander around / stray out of the box. That lob would have been embarrassing, if it had gone in.

Kane nearly scored in the first 5 secs with that header from the kickoff

[Arrivalist]

Yazza54 said:

Arrivalist said:

Yazza54 said:

Id like the see the starting 11 be the same 11 that we had coming off at 15 mins of ET.

That or the 11 that finished the Slovenia game.

I wanna see more of Toney and eze, much more physical players that can win the ball in the air, something we've been very weak on

I agree and I'd also like to see Gordon running at the opposition.

[Byker28i]

Legend83 said:

We will miss Guehi, who was solid defensively again (Stones was at fault for the goal IMO) and got the flick-on assist for Bellingham's goal.

It goes without saying we were fecking lucky, and it could have been very different if Schranz had gone down when clipped by Guehi instead of tucking the goal away...

We were also fortunate either the ref calmed down or someone at UEFA had a word at half-time as Bellingham could easily have got a second yellow for that awful dive.

It has not been pretty, but hey we are into the quarters of the EUROS .

Ref went yellow card happy in the first 20 mins, then let equal of worse tackles go in the second half
Stones looked poor