The Official England Thread- The Team We All Support [Vol 3]

[Alickadoo]

BREAKING NEWS

England's footballers will not be voting
in the forthcoming election.

They couldn't find the box
let alone put a cross in it!

[grumpy52]

The England team won't be voting in the General election.
They couldn't find the box.
Certainly couldn't put a cross in it !

[Mannginger]

Did you guys just see a tweet or something?!

[GloverMart]

Wadeski said:

Someone raised the interesting point about Tyrick Mitchell about 20 pages back. No one is saying he is the amongst the top 4 rated defenders in the country. But he's a natural left back, who plays with Guehi day in day out.

Gareth could have build his confidence in the friendlies, and given England 2 pairs in defense who play tegether and club level. But instead we have the four highest-rated defenders who look like they are communicating with each by pigeon and signal fires.

That was me although I did post it with the caveat that at the time, he would have probably not thought Guehi would be starting at left centre back so I'd posted it with hindsight!

I've spoken with enough professional football managers over the years who would almost always pick the best players for their positions regardless of if they were one of the best XI in the team, i.e. not shoehorning players into a team just because of who they are.

[272BHP]

I think I have come to the conclusion that he should play both Bellingham and Foden - just not at the same time.

If one isn't working or is tired then swap him out for the other. Better 30 mins playing in positions they know rather than 90mins of getting under each others feet.

[aeropilot]

BBC have done an interesting article from the view of other European countries perspective regarding England's performances. Looks like most are as equally baffled at Southgate's selections, system and players performances.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cqqq...

[TEKNOPUG]

aeropilot said:

BBC have done an interesting article from the view of other European countries perspective regarding England's performances. Looks like most are as equally baffled at Southgate's selections, system and players performances.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cqqq...

Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf questioned why England "keep playing with the handbrake on and making incomprehensible choices"

Everyone asking the same questions.

[Adam.]

TEKNOPUG said:

Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf questioned why England "keep playing with the handbrake on and making incomprehensible choices"

Everyone asking the same questions.

I find any defence of Southgate baffling, we can all see the glaring problems and the obvious solutions apart from him.

Chucking cups at him isn’t nice, but he needs to understand the depth of annoyance he is generating, especially from fans who have paid thousands to go there and support the team.

Surely he has people around him pointing out the issues and suggesting the solutions? He doesn’t strike me as an arrogant man yet why does he persist with this formation and these players?

[Muzzer79]

Adam. said:

Chucking cups at him isn’t nice, but he needs to understand the depth of annoyance he is generating, especially from fans who have paid thousands to go there and support the team.

So you're justifying people throwing objects at a football manager at the end of a football match?

[Blackpuddin]

272BHP said:

I think I have come to the conclusion that he should play both Bellingham and Foden - just not at the same time.

If one isn't working or is tired then swap him out for the other. Better 30 mins playing in positions they know rather than 90mins of getting under each others feet.

That's a sensible idea, and therefore it will never happen.

[vixen1700]

Voldemort said:

Genuine lol!

[Tycho]

Frimley111R said:

Flip Martian said:

48k said:

soupdragon1 said:

I hear Luke Shaw will be fit for Sunday.

Fit in what sense though? He hasn't played a competitive game since February and usually takes a few games when coming back from his many injuries to get back to full sharpness.
He really shouldn't have been in the squad IMHO, it's asking a lot of him if he is thrown in to games now.

International class, at his best. Out since February = should be nowhere near the squad. Very strange. Surely a squad of match fit players should be the bare minimum.

I've seen the match fit players, they're ste. Match fit or not, Shaw can't be worse than any of the rest of the squad.

Anyway, I think England are doing well given they couldn't even beat Iceland a few weeks ago....

I'd play Gomez at left back. He's been covering for Robbo when he was out and did very well. He'd be better than a rusty Shaw.

[twister]

Muzzer79 said:

Adam. said:

Chucking cups at him isn’t nice, but he needs to understand the depth of annoyance he is generating, especially from fans who have paid thousands to go there and support the team.

So you're justifying people throwing objects at a football manager at the end of a football match?

That's not the takeaway I had from Adam's comment - sounded more like they were condoning the physical acts against GS, whilst also accepting there are solid reasons *why* some people have resorted to such acts, and that until GS gives us some indication that he understands what those reasons are, rather than just continuing to do the same thing over and over again with predictable results, then that's the real issue.

Because no, there's no justification for physically attacking GS, but there very much IS justification for being very very critical of the way he's managing our national team right now, and it's inevitable that whilst that situation continues, some will then take that as an excuse to behave badly. Accepting the former in no way condones the latter, and trying to imply the former is in some way incorrect only helps to fan the flames.

Now personally I don't think it's *all* on GS here - watching the matches so far, it feels as if there are maybe a handful of players who've shown enough on the field to justify their place in the squad, and the right to wear the 3 lions on their chest. The rest of them just look as if they're going through the motions, doing the bare minimum required to keep them on the pitch but rarely if ever showing any signs of being world class players.

The best value for me so far in terms of being entertained, excited, and kept on the edge of my seat, has been watching anyone but England. And that's what I want when I invest my time into watching matches. Because winning really isn't everything, it's HOW you win that also matters. If we somehow manage to scrape together any sort of result from this tournament playing the way we've played so far, it'll be embarrassing, and will rightly lead to questions from the rest of the world as to just how valid the result is - i.e. does it truly reflect how good we were in comparison to all the other teams in the tournament, or did we just get supremely lucky with the draws. Yes, we've topped our group, but that only has meaning when we compare ourselves to the other teams in our group - some people seem to be treating our position here as somehow suggesting we're therefore one of the top 6 teams in the entire tournament, which is dangerously optimistic. We are where we are not because of how good we are, but because of how poor our opponents have been so far. Put us in pretty much any of the other groups, and we'd have been group runners up at best, and potentially out of it entirely.

[aeropilot]

Tycho said:

I'd play Gomez at left back. He's been covering for Robbo when he was out and did very well. He'd be better than a rusty Shaw.

I agree.

Gomez at LB, Wharton next to Rice, Gordon on LW and Bellingham as 10 just behind Kane. To be honest, I'd be half tempted to put Watkins in instead of Kane to start, as I think him and Bellingham are a better match, and if its not working, swap Bellingham and Watkins for Foden and Kane.

[coldel]

aeropilot said:

BBC have done an interesting article from the view of other European countries perspective regarding England's performances. Looks like most are as equally baffled at Southgate's selections, system and players performances.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cqqq...

Came on here to post the same thing

Its not just the majority of the England fans that are bewildered (appreciate there are a small handful who are just like hey we are ok we finished top whats the problem) but pretty much everyone is unified in the stupidity of some of what Southgate is doing.

The problems seem to stem from Foden, given he is missing training it should be a good excuse to drop Foden, put in someone alongside Rice who plays that role, push Bellingham on to play a number 10 and put an actual bonafide left winger out on the left wing. We could do a good job rotating Saka and Palmer, Saka so far in the tournament has faded in all games second half.

[Castrol for a knave]

coldel said:

aeropilot said:

BBC have done an interesting article from the view of other European countries perspective regarding England's performances. Looks like most are as equally baffled at Southgate's selections, system and players performances.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cqqq...

Came on here to post the same thing

Its not just the majority of the England fans that are bewildered (appreciate there are a small handful who are just like hey we are ok we finished top whats the problem) but pretty much everyone is unified in the stupidity of some of what Southgate is doing.

The problems seem to stem from Foden, given he is missing training it should be a good excuse to drop Foden, put in someone alongside Rice who plays that role, push Bellingham on to play a number 10 and put an actual bonafide left winger out on the left wing. We could do a good job rotating Saka and Palmer, Saka so far in the tournament has faded in all games second half.

Agree with you both. Get Gordon on and play a more natural left wing/ attacking left forward.

Foden is out of positon - he wants to be an attacking centre- like Sterling, not stuck on the left lofting balls with his unfavoured foot, for Kane to miss.

[Muzzer79]

twister said:

Muzzer79 said:

Adam. said:

Chucking cups at him isn’t nice, but he needs to understand the depth of annoyance he is generating, especially from fans who have paid thousands to go there and support the team.

So you're justifying people throwing objects at a football manager at the end of a football match?

That's not the takeaway I had from Adam's comment - sounded more like they were condoning the physical acts against GS, whilst also accepting there are solid reasons *why* some people have resorted to such acts, and that until GS gives us some indication that he understands what those reasons are, rather than just continuing to do the same thing over and over again with predictable results, then that's the real issue.

Because no, there's no justification for physically attacking GS, but there very much IS justification for being very very critical of the way he's managing our national team right now, and it's inevitable that whilst that situation continues, some will then take that as an excuse to behave badly. Accepting the former in no way condones the latter, and trying to imply the former is in some way incorrect only helps to fan the flames.

If someone had gone on to the pitch and hit him, would you be OK with someone saying

"Hitting him isn't acceptable, but he needs to understand the depth of annoyance he is generating, especially from fans who have paid thousands to go there and support the team."

It's the 'but' that undoes the condemnation of the bad behaviour. There should be no 'but' when it comes to physically attacking someone.

It reminds me a little of when Chris Whitty (Chief Medical Officer) was attacked on the street during Covid. There were people on these pages then saying that him being attacked wasn't acceptable, but he needed to understand that his actions drove them to it.

Criticising someone is an individual's choice and freedom of speech allows that. I have no issue with criticism. I think however that any physical action crosses the line, no 'buts'.

[Blackpuddin]

twister said:

That's not the takeaway I had from Adam's comment - sounded more like they were condoning the physical acts against GS, whilst also accepting there are solid reasons *why* some people have resorted to such acts, and that until GS gives us some indication that he understands what those reasons are, rather than just continuing to do the same thing over and over again with predictable results, then that's the real issue.

Because no, there's no justification for physically attacking GS, but there very much IS justification for being very very critical of the way he's managing our national team right now, and it's inevitable that whilst that situation continues, some will then take that as an excuse to behave badly. Accepting the former in no way condones the latter, and trying to imply the former is in some way incorrect only helps to fan the flames.

Now personally I don't think it's *all* on GS here - watching the matches so far, it feels as if there are maybe a handful of players who've shown enough on the field to justify their place in the squad, and the right to wear the 3 lions on their chest. The rest of them just look as if they're going through the motions, doing the bare minimum required to keep them on the pitch but rarely if ever showing any signs of being world class players.

The best value for me so far in terms of being entertained, excited, and kept on the edge of my seat, has been watching anyone but England. And that's what I want when I invest my time into watching matches. Because winning really isn't everything, it's HOW you win that also matters. If we somehow manage to scrape together any sort of result from this tournament playing the way we've played so far, it'll be embarrassing, and will rightly lead to questions from the rest of the world as to just how valid the result is - i.e. does it truly reflect how good we were in comparison to all the other teams in the tournament, or did we just get supremely lucky with the draws. Yes, we've topped our group, but that only has meaning when we compare ourselves to the other teams in our group - some people seem to be treating our position here as somehow suggesting we're therefore one of the top 6 teams in the entire tournament, which is dangerously optimistic. We are where we are not because of how good we are, but because of how poor our opponents have been so far. Put us in pretty much any of the other groups, and we'd have been group runners up at best, and potentially out of it entirely.

In short, there's no joy in the way England plays the game.

[coldel]

Blackpuddin said:

In short, there's no joy in the way England plays the game.

Yep, its turgid and the players are all playing at about 50% of their capability because of the poor selections, formations, lack of preparation.

[Adam.]

twister said:

That's not the takeaway I had from Adam's comment - sounded more like they were condoning the physical acts against GS, whilst also accepting there are solid reasons *why* some people have resorted to such acts, and that until GS gives us some indication that he understands what those reasons are, rather than just continuing to do the same thing over and over again with predictable results, then that's the real issue.

Thanks twister for the sensible interpretation.

I would never do it.
I don’t condone it.
Do I understand the level of frustration - yes.

Couple more sensible suggestions of formation and selection in the last few posts. There are 4 or 5 solutions to the problem (though that may not fix the lethargy, lack of guile and complete lack of movement).

Unfortunately SG seems too pig ignorant or stubborn to do more than tinker with an obviously failing team. It’s bizarre behaviour from a reasonable, intelligent man.